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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 08:02 AM
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Why do you want to run it so low?
It helps with many things. Engine temp, underhood temp, less pulling of timing, cooler IAT, consistency, etc. I'd run it even lower if I could. Cooler water temps never hurt me as long as the oil temp was fine.

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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 11:54 AM
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It helps with many things. Engine temp, underhood temp, less pulling of timing, cooler IAT, consistency, etc. I'd run it even lower if I could. Cooler water temps never hurt me as long as the oil temp was fine.
That's my goal. Lower coolant temps also help with keeping lower cylinder temps which helps prevent KR.

I'm dropping down to a drilled 160 t-stat and a dual pass radiator. Figure she'll run 165-190...settling in at 170-175...or rather I hope she does.


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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 07:20 PM
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MB, I am up the road from you in the Tampa area..... as you know we are having local temperatures above 90 degrees......my 2.4 2009 sky is running just like yours, but that's to be expected......
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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-27-2019, 12:40 AM
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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-27-2019, 11:05 AM
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That's my goal. Lower coolant temps also help with keeping lower cylinder temps which helps prevent KR.

I'm dropping down to a drilled 160 t-stat and a dual pass radiator. Figure she'll run 165-190...settling in at 170-175...or rather I hope she does.
Where did you find a 160 t-stat?

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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-27-2019, 02:25 PM
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But these motors produce more power and run more efficiently around the 185-210 temp range.... why would you want to run that cold other then KR and you're afraid of pushing too much hot air with the turbo?
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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-28-2019, 01:15 PM
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I have a red line and live in Tucson AZ my temps use to hang around 198 to 205 in the summer months . I thought that that was running to hot . I did something that I dont think anyone else has tried. I ran hoses to both sides of the engine block comming from the brake cooling ducks. After after installing the flexible hoses and home made brackets to hold them in place the temperature now runs between 192 and 200 I dont know why someone else hasn't tried this since the brakes dont need to be cooled if your just driving on the street
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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-28-2019, 02:18 PM
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I don't see any problem running up to 205.

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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-28-2019, 04:05 PM
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But these motors produce more power and run more efficiently around the 185-210 temp range.... why would you want to run that cold other then KR and you're afraid of pushing too much hot air with the turbo?
Because when I autocross or do hard mountain drives in 115 degree weather it's really easy to get the temps well above that range. I'm hoping that when I'm pushing the car like that the temps will settle more in the 200-210 range than the 225-235 range they start getting into now. I'll see how it works out. After all, swapping a t-stat isn't horrible in these cars...just not the easiest.

Also, getting a larger bang in the cylinder (more air = more fuel = more power = more heat) means cylinder temps can rise with the larger turbo as well. While aluminum is a far better conductor of heat that iron, getting that heat out of the aluminum is important too in order to keep cylinder temps where you want them.

I haven't seen any data on using different t-stats on these engines and have seen the benefits on using them with older technology engines under forced induction.

Finally I run a Hahn LNF intercooler which, up until now, has kept intake charges where they should be temp wise. It should handle a lot more than what I have been throwing at it. We'll see what it does with this setup.

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Where did you find a 160 t-stat?
I believe I found mine on eBay but it's an AC Delco part.


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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-28-2019, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 2008Saturn? View Post
I have a red line and live in Tucson AZ my temps use to hang around 198 to 205 in the summer months . I thought that that was running to hot . I did something that I dont think anyone else has tried. I ran hoses to both sides of the engine block comming from the brake cooling ducks. After after installing the flexible hoses and home made brackets to hold them in place the temperature now runs between 192 and 200 I dont know why someone else hasn't tried this since the brakes dont need to be cooled if your just driving on the street
Interesting. Never heard or seen that before here duct work to cool the engine block. Hey if it works, why not? Tucson AZ hot as hell, it was when I was there at least. Photos if you can?

Hotter summer temps we all want our cars to run a bit cooler. Sometimes this is not possible. Keep track of your temps on a regular basis during these hot summer months. Any change from your normal range 190-210, find out why? Low coolant in the expansion tank? Any sign of leaks under your car?
I just cleaned my IC and Radiator with a hose/brush/sponge. Dirty they were, but not now. Lot cleaner, maybe it will help some then again, maybe not?
Lot of loose grime washed away in this most recent process. Years worth maybe.
I did this wash/clean right after I bought my Sky. 6 years later it was back on my list. Box checked off for now.

I had commented on another thread here, a new owner with seats different than the original set up with no power seat height adjustment switch.
After his inspection under the driver seat, no evidence that the car had this option installed.
Then looking under the passenger seat he finds an old I-Pad with Honolulu time on the clock.

You just never know until you look, close. Loose bolts here, a tear in the weather strip there, uneven tire wear, a
chip monk on your intake manifold, could be anything. Ahhh it's ok, I'll check it later. Famous last words.

LAC

Last edited by LAC Sky; 05-28-2019 at 05:15 PM.
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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-28-2019, 05:41 PM
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So, I am sitting in a conference call that I don't need to be in, but can't get out of, and decided to analyze this temperature thing, but need more information.

@Robotech : What radiator and/or oil cooler are you running? And, what horsepower do you want to be able to develop, for how long, without exceeding 210 F?

John
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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-28-2019, 06:04 PM
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But these motors produce more power and run more efficiently around the 185-210 temp range.... why would you want to run that cold other then KR and you're afraid of pushing too much hot air with the turbo?
Very true. Just because you run a 160 t-stat doesn't mean you run that cold, only that it opens earlier.

I have the 180 t-stat in there now. I can't get below 205 normally. Usually 208-210 is where it runs. So with a 160 t-stat, I'm assuming I'd see the same shift. 185-200 coolant temps.

That would be perfect, IMHO. Plenty hot enough.

Rob
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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-28-2019, 06:27 PM
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@Robotech : What radiator and/or oil cooler are you running? And, what horsepower do you want to be able to develop, for how long, without exceeding 210 F?
Running the PAW dual pass radiator (so a lot more coolant hanging out in the radiator for a longer period of time) and no additional oil cooler...yet...will be installing an oil temp gauge at some point in the future to keep an eye on that (along with oil and fuel pressure gauges in the cockpit since I already have a fuel pressure gauge under the hood).

Peak HP is 450-500 (450 on 91, 500 on E85...these are targets but I suspect it will be lower knowing my luck). However, I won't know my power curve until the engine is in and dyno'd. I run a dyno of sorts on HP Tuners that dyno'd the car at 249 whp when it dyno'd 251 whp on a real dyno under the exact same conditions telling me it's pretty dang close so if I use this HPT dyno on the track I'll have a better idea of what the powerband looks like on track.

The issue is on the Autocross course, we are constantly accelerating in low gears running through the powerband. We do this for a minute then set for a while. Thus we're heating the coolant in the engine not going over 60 mph (and usually only a handful of seconds at over 40) then sitting for 5-10 minutes in the staging area with no air moving over the radiator/IC. We do this 3-4 times back to back.

This and sitting on the freeway in bumper to bumper traffic is what heats up the car the most. Otherwise, it's not so bad. Cruising on the freeway I'll probably be in the 180-195 temp range as now I'm usually in the 200-215 range when cruising. Also I figure the temps will be more stable due to the larger radiator.

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Originally Posted by RobR View Post
Very true. Just because you run a 160 t-stat doesn't mean you run that cold, only that it opens earlier.

I have the 180 t-stat in there now. I can't get below 205 normally. Usually 208-210 is where it runs. So with a 160 t-stat, I'm assuming I'd see the same shift. 185-200 coolant temps.

That would be perfect, IMHO. Plenty hot enough.
The ECM considers 155 coolant temp (along with a minimum run time that is far less than what is required to get from 110 and lower to 155) as "warmed up" and at coolant temps above this range the engine logic has no limitations placed on it due to coolant temp.

Like I said, should be interesting to see what happens and worst case scenario, I go back to a 180.


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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-28-2019, 07:31 PM
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Does PAW give you any performance values for the radiator? Their website is a little sparse. Something like rated horsepower, or heat flow would be really nice.

Your autocross scenario is quite a bit different than a canyon carving scenario, in just the way you describe. In autocross you are putting heat into the engine in short bursts, not unlike a drag racer except that they may not do runs quite so close together. I would think that you would get some cooling between runs either with a fan pulling air through the radiator or with the hood open. Either way, sub-cooling the engine will provide some help since the entire system will be a sink for the heat that the radiator cannot disperse.

The heat load while canyon carving is of much longer duration, and starting at a lower temperature isn't going to help for very long. Trying to run at a lower temperature will actually make it harder to maintain that temperature since you will have a smaller delta-T for the radiator to work with. The two main reasons that I understand for manufacturers to have increased operating temperatures are efficiency and the ability to run smaller radiators, although you have evaded the smaller radiator issue and probably don't much care about efficiency.

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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-28-2019, 08:15 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by geonico View Post
MB, I am up the road from you in the Tampa area..... as you know we are having local temperatures above 90 degrees......my 2.4 2009 sky is running just like yours, but that's to be expected......
Thanks man for the comeback. I dont mean to be spooked or over cautious. Just makin sure I know where the hobo hid da money. Don't need a melt down. Yea it is HOT right now. I will just be careful. No worries mate.

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