coolant temperature - Saturn Sky Forums: Saturn Sky Forum
General Saturn Sky Discussion Forum for discussing general topics on the Saturn SKY.

User Tag List

 5Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-12-2020, 02:41 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
emlec1992's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: EU Continent -> SWITZERLAND
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Garage
coolant temperature

Hi !

A blue sky, 53 F ... I drove open roof of my red GT...I looooooooove this car

53F, I push the heating to the maximum and ventilation too ... and the coolant temperature reaches around > 212F. Without use, the temperature seems normal at around <194 F

For info, new thermostat, water pump not replaced, 65000 miles
I see this for the 1st time for a convertible, I did it with other one.

Neophyte, I ask

I browsed the forum, several information exists but not on this subject ... or bad research.

Logic will say to me ... HIGH TEMPERATURE requested, the vehicle product accordingly...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	opel.jpg
Views:	13
Size:	404.2 KB
ID:	106181  
emlec1992 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-12-2020, 02:54 PM
Moderator
 
JohnWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 4,939
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
It is not an uncommon observation, but it is not intended as far as any documentation shows. In any case, 212 is not a cause for concern, so just enjoy it.

John
Lexington, KY
Sky NA 2007 Midnight Blue
Sky RL 2008 Carbon Flash - Naked
JohnWR is online now  
post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 09:31 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
emlec1992's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: EU Continent -> SWITZERLAND
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnWR View Post
It is not an uncommon observation, but it is not intended as far as any documentation shows. In any case, 212 is not a cause for concern, so just enjoy it.
Yeaah,

Thanks a lot

Greetings
emlec1992 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 10:30 AM
Supporting Vendor
 
Dave@ddmworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 692
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Send a message via Yahoo to Dave@ddmworks
Quote:
Originally Posted by emlec1992 View Post
Hi !

A blue sky, 53 F ... I drove open roof of my red GT...I looooooooove this car

53F, I push the heating to the maximum and ventilation too ... and the coolant temperature reaches around > 212F. Without use, the temperature seems normal at around <194 F

For info, new thermostat, water pump not replaced, 65000 miles
I see this for the 1st time for a convertible, I did it with other one.

Neophyte, I ask

I browsed the forum, several information exists but not on this subject ... or bad research.

Logic will say to me ... HIGH TEMPERATURE requested, the vehicle product accordingly...
The light on the dash for high temperature comes on a 255 degrees, just FYI.

The operating temperature range you are seeing is normal and not problem at all, when you turn on the heat the coolant temp that is shown on the gauge will increase, that is a normal thing also.

Dave Michel
DDMWorks
Sales - 864-438-4949
Tech Support - 864-907-6004

WWW.DDMworks.com
[email protected]
Stage 3 Supercharged 2.4L - 314whp - 93 octane
Rotrex Supercharged 2.4L - 340whp - 93 octane
2871 Hybrid turbo 2.0L - 371whp - 93 octane
post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 11:32 AM
Junior Member
 
TomatoSoup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
Posts: 3,906
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 526 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
The operating temperature range you are seeing is normal and not problem at all, when you turn on the heat the coolant temp that is shown on the gauge will increase, that is a normal thing also.
Yeah, I get the same effect, many (all?) other owners do too. I would really like to know why, though. Turning on the heat only affects the position of the air blender flap in the cabin airflow. The coolant flow is not changed since coolant flows through the heat exchanger all the time (continuously). So the only effect is that heat is taken OUT of the coolant via the cabin fan blowing air over the heat exchanger. How does this INCREASE the coolant temps?

My only theory would be that the heater position is 'read' by the ECM, and the ECM does magic with the fuel maps (etc) to increase engine temps to account for that heat being pulled out of the coolant into the cabin, and maybe it overcompensates? Just a theory - only worth the paper it's written on.

Owner of "Campbelle", a Brazen 2008 GXP ... with mods piling up...
TomatoSoup is offline  
post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 11:49 AM
Supporting Vendor
 
Dave@ddmworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 692
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Send a message via Yahoo to Dave@ddmworks
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomatoSoup View Post
Yeah, I get the same effect, many (all?) other owners do too. I would really like to know why, though. Turning on the heat only affects the position of the air blender flap in the cabin airflow. The coolant flow is not changed since coolant flows through the heat exchanger all the time (continuously). So the only effect is that heat is taken OUT of the coolant via the cabin fan blowing air over the heat exchanger. How does this INCREASE the coolant temps?

My only theory would be that the heater position is 'read' by the ECM, and the ECM does magic with the fuel maps (etc) to increase engine temps to account for that heat being pulled out of the coolant into the cabin, and maybe it overcompensates? Just a theory - only worth the paper it's written on.
Would love to know why the engine temp displayed on the gauges shows an increase in temp when you turn on the heat also, but I know there are no changes to the engine fueling and timing when that happens. It is a weird thing though.

Dave Michel
DDMWorks
Sales - 864-438-4949
Tech Support - 864-907-6004

WWW.DDMworks.com
[email protected]
Stage 3 Supercharged 2.4L - 314whp - 93 octane
Rotrex Supercharged 2.4L - 340whp - 93 octane
2871 Hybrid turbo 2.0L - 371whp - 93 octane
post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 01:14 PM
Moderator
 
JohnWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 4,939
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
The ECM doesn't read the heater control position, and the coolant flow is not changed with the heat setting, so the only thing left is the relative positions of the temperature transmitter and the thermostat. If the cooled coolant causes the thermostat to close slightly, the coolant temperature will go up. Unless the temperature transmitter is right at the thermostat, it will read that higher temperature.

What are the relative locations of the thermostat, heater core discharge, and transmitter?

John
Lexington, KY
Sky NA 2007 Midnight Blue
Sky RL 2008 Carbon Flash - Naked
JohnWR is online now  
post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 02:15 PM
Super Moderator
 
Robotech's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 11,009
Mentioned: 75 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1818 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnWR View Post
The ECM doesn't read the heater control position, and the coolant flow is not changed with the heat setting, so the only thing left is the relative positions of the temperature transmitter and the thermostat. If the cooled coolant causes the thermostat to close slightly, the coolant temperature will go up. Unless the temperature transmitter is right at the thermostat, it will read that higher temperature.

What are the relative locations of the thermostat, heater core discharge, and transmitter?
They are all on top of each other. I've attached some pictures of our thermostat housing below. This picture shows what the housing and coolant tube looks like on a Redline/GXP LNF engine. The "U" bent coolant pipe goes into the water pump on the disconnected end on this picture. On the other end, is the thermostat housing. Now the thermostat sits at the bottom end of this image but the cover is missing here. The cold water from the radiator comes in from this cap so everything in this part of the housing is hot water that has been passed through the engine. There are two tubes coming out of this housing and the one closest to the bottom of this picture is the hose that feeds the heater core. The return line comes in on the other side of the thermostat through the thermostat cap. So the feed and return from the heater core are right here in this area. Also, you can see the coolant temperature sensor still installed in this thermostat housing...it's between the two long silver tubes which are pointing towards the left side of the picture.



Here are how the heater hoses connect to this.



Now on the turbo cars, the coolant feed line for the turbo plugs in here too. So in the next image, you will see two holes, one on the right and one towards the middle right next to the heater line on the left. The Turbo coolant feed hooks up to the hole on the right and the coolant temperature sensor goes in the one on the left. You'll also notice an inset picture here. The little rectangle opening you see in that picture is where coolant can pass into or out of the engine block.



And here you can see the housing again with the thermostat in place with the cover on it. The one tube we saw in the first picture (that was the upper one of the two lines) is gone but with the cap in place you can now see the return tube for the heater core.



So here is my theory:

The heater core acts as an additional radiator. Once the thermostat has opened, hot coolant flows from the hot side of the thermostat up to the heater core. As you run your heater, this water is cooled off below the current operating temperature of the engine coolant. Now this "cold" water is introduced right above the thermostat and moves across the thermostat with the rest of the cool water coming from the radiator. However, this water is now cooler than the 180 operating temp thus the thermostat starts to close. Now the flow of coolant isn't where it needs to be to continue to maintain that optimum temp and engine coolant temps start to rise. So long as you use the heater, the average temp should remain higher than normal as there is the "extra cooled" water coming from the heater core directly to the thermostat.

Just my theory though.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	s-2.jpg
Views:	30
Size:	18.2 KB
ID:	106187   Click image for larger version

Name:	s-3.jpg
Views:	29
Size:	5.2 KB
ID:	106189   Click image for larger version

Name:	s-l400.jpg
Views:	30
Size:	25.4 KB
ID:	106191   Click image for larger version

Name:	17094.jpg
Views:	32
Size:	10.6 KB
ID:	106193  
emlec1992 likes this.


V.A.L. (#1108)
2007 2.4 Base
MagnaFlow dual outlet, quad tip exhaust test car
**Sold**

Max (#1547)
2007 TURBO 2.4
Too much to list here. See my Garage for details.

Last edited by Robotech; 01-13-2020 at 02:44 PM.
Robotech is offline  
post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 03:14 PM
Moderator
 
JohnWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 4,939
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotech View Post
.........
So here is my theory:

The heater core acts as an additional radiator. Once the thermostat has opened, hot coolant flows from the hot side of the thermostat up to the heater core. As you run your heater, this water is cooled off below the current operating temperature of the engine coolant. Now this "cold" water is introduced right above the thermostat and moves across the thermostat with the rest of the cool water coming from the radiator. However, this water is now cooler than the 180 operating temp thus the thermostat starts to close. Now the flow of coolant isn't where it needs to be to continue to maintain that optimum temp and engine coolant temps start to rise. So long as you use the heater, the average temp should remain higher than normal as there is the "extra cooled" water coming from the heater core directly to the thermostat.

Just my theory though.
Except for you using 20 times as many words, isn't that what I said?

John
Lexington, KY
Sky NA 2007 Midnight Blue
Sky RL 2008 Carbon Flash - Naked
JohnWR is online now  
post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 03:34 PM
Super Moderator
 
Robotech's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 11,009
Mentioned: 75 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1818 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnWR View Post
Except for you using 20 times as many words, isn't that what I said?
Well, yes...except I was explaining it in the scope of knowing where all those things you asked about were located in relationship to each other so there was that. That took a few more words.


V.A.L. (#1108)
2007 2.4 Base
MagnaFlow dual outlet, quad tip exhaust test car
**Sold**

Max (#1547)
2007 TURBO 2.4
Too much to list here. See my Garage for details.
Robotech is offline  
post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-15-2020, 10:06 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
emlec1992's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: EU Continent -> SWITZERLAND
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
So here is my theory:

The heater core acts as an additional radiator. Once the thermostat has opened, hot coolant flows from the hot side of the thermostat up to the heater core. As you run your heater, this water is cooled off below the current operating temperature of the engine coolant. Now this "cold" water is introduced right above the thermostat and moves across the thermostat with the rest of the cool water coming from the radiator. However, this water is now cooler than the 180 operating temp thus the thermostat starts to close. Now the flow of coolant isn't where it needs to be to continue to maintain that optimum temp and engine coolant temps start to rise. So long as you use the heater, the average temp should remain higher than normal as there is the "extra cooled" water coming from the heater core directly to the thermostat.

Just my theory though.
UPDATE : The liquid in the Coolant surge tank , rubber hoses, charge air bypass, air in cabin airflow are cold...

I do not know the name of the technical part which looks like the charge air pass...cold too

Like I said in a other post, I had suspicious sound was on side of the water pump, sound like "hissing".

Sad update, I was so happy to drive again with a beautiful sun in winter.

Last edited by Robotech; 01-15-2020 at 10:57 AM.
emlec1992 is offline  
post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-15-2020, 11:01 AM
Super Moderator
 
Robotech's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 11,009
Mentioned: 75 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1818 Post(s)
Garage
You mean when you turn the heater on you're getting cold air? Sounds like you may have air trapped in the system which is preventing the thermostat from operating properly. The hissing could be related to the air and higher coolant temps too. You may want to try re-bleeding the system especially if you just changed the thermostat.


V.A.L. (#1108)
2007 2.4 Base
MagnaFlow dual outlet, quad tip exhaust test car
**Sold**

Max (#1547)
2007 TURBO 2.4
Too much to list here. See my Garage for details.
Robotech is offline  
post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-15-2020, 12:56 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Mainz, Germany
Posts: 910
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
I have noticed that my car also runs hotter when the heat is used. In the past, in the winter I would often drive it on cold days, 0C or less, with the roof down, windows up, and heater on full. The coolant temperature would rise but there were never any ill effects. I would never see it above 90C/195F without the heater, but with it, not uncommon to see it at 100 or more.

I can confirm, though...the cars do look good parked next to alpine lakes.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_9552.jpg
Views:	21
Size:	761.5 KB
ID:	106201  
emlec1992 likes this.
mstrjon32 is offline  
post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-15-2020, 01:29 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
emlec1992's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: EU Continent -> SWITZERLAND
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotech View Post
You mean when you turn the heater on you're getting cold air? Sounds like you may have air trapped in the system which is preventing the thermostat from operating properly. The hissing could be related to the air and higher coolant temps too. You may want to try re-bleeding the system especially if you just changed the thermostat.
Yes, only cold air.

Sorry, I was not clear, thermostat was changed in April 2019, if the seller said right.

After 15 minutes, I had to move the car by and driving 4/5 minutes and curiously, the ventilation was blowing hot air and temp growing UP quickly. Park at my place ... and I apply the rule "ask if you don't know"

Same happen...heater getting warm air, temp going up... and cold air after

Last edited by emlec1992; 01-15-2020 at 03:01 PM.
emlec1992 is offline  
post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-15-2020, 01:30 PM
Moderator
 
JohnWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 4,939
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstrjon32 View Post
I have noticed that my car also runs hotter when the heat is used. In the past, in the winter I would often drive it on cold days, 0C or less, with the roof down, windows up, and heater on full. The coolant temperature would rise but there were never any ill effects. I would never see it above 90C/195F without the heater, but with it, not uncommon to see it at 100 or more.

I can confirm, though...the cars do look good parked next to alpine lakes.
Nice picture.

Isn't it true that the cars look good next to just about anything? And almost everything looks better next to an alpine lake?

John
Lexington, KY
Sky NA 2007 Midnight Blue
Sky RL 2008 Carbon Flash - Naked
JohnWR is online now  
Reply

  Saturn Sky Forums: Saturn Sky Forum > Saturn Sky Discussion > General Saturn Sky Discussion

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Saturn Sky Forums: Saturn Sky Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (1 members and 1 guests)
Emmett
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome