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post #46 of 557 (permalink) Old 09-04-2014, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by RickyD View Post
He replaced the stock trany with another stock trany. If that's the case both 5 speeds which won't get you past 167 if even that since GXPs redline hits before that regardless of horsepower or aerodynamics.
I believe by "stock", they mean stock hardware with no RPM limit (or a raised RPM limit). The 192 was reportedly hit at ~6900 RPM...which pretty much matches what you would expect with the stock ratios.

And in a theoretical context, using a 233HP (at the wheels) 150mph baseline, it would take 482HP to get to 192. And 544HP to get to 200. These are theoretical extrapolations of the 233/150 assumption. Of particular qualitative value, note how much additonal HP is required to squeak from 192 to 200 (a mere 8 mph more)...takes an additional 62HP!

Also, those are "at the wheels", so the engine itself is putting out 500+ at 192 and "would be" pushing 600 at 200. Again, extrapolation from baseline assumptions.

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post #47 of 557 (permalink) Old 09-04-2014, 11:53 PM Thread Starter
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With the rev limiter off maybe.

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Originally Posted by Bogie View Post
I believe by "stock", they mean stock hardware with no RPM limit (or a raised RPM limit). The 192 was reportedly hit at ~6900 RPM...which pretty much matches what you would expect with the stock ratios.

And in a theoretical context, using a 233HP (at the wheels) 150mph baseline, it would take 482HP to get to 192. And 544HP to get to 200. These are theoretical extrapolations of the 233/150 assumption. Of particular qualitative value, note how much additonal HP is required to squeak from 192 to 200 (a mere 8 mph more)...takes an additional 62HP!

Also, those are "at the wheels", so the engine itself is putting out 500+ at 192 and "would be" pushing 600 at 200. Again, extrapolation from baseline assumptions.
You could be right with the limiter removed but if the rest of his engine is stock that's really hard to believe but maybe, I've seen stranger things. Once I'm done working the aerodynamic the drag will be a lot less. As we all know HP doesn't get you down the track torque does. The Lamborghini Aventador has 700hp but only 507lbsft and that's at the engine not the wheels with a drag coefficient of .33 and in the mile they got 178-185 and they top out at 220 but that's on a really long track like 5 or more miles. As you go faster the front of your car is smashing the air molecules closer and closer together so it take more force to push through the air as speed goes up but there are ways to break up that air so it's not like pushing a sheet of plywood down the road. That's what I'm working on

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post #48 of 557 (permalink) Old 09-05-2014, 09:44 AM
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You could be right with the limiter removed but if the rest of his engine is stock that's really hard to believe but maybe
Engine isn't stock. It's a 2JZ.

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Originally Posted by RickyD View Post
As you go faster the front of your car is smashing the air molecules closer and closer together so it take more force to push through the air as speed goes up but there are ways to break up that air so it's not like pushing a sheet of plywood down the road. That's what I'm working on
Yes, it looks like the 2JZ build is just powering through. And a word of caution on the smash. Note when the driver lifted on the 192 run, the rear almost broke loose. A smash and lift creates a braking force which loads the front, loosens the rear...things can go bad quickly at that point.

You're going for the more subtle approach of reducing drag. Aero is a much more difficult game to play than brute force. Not to diminish brute force, as getting that kind of power out of the components used takes a tremendous amount of knowledge and know how. But aero requires a deeper level of engineering and finesse....and perhaps a wind tunnel or two.

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post #49 of 557 (permalink) Old 09-05-2014, 09:53 AM
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I thought torque played a bigger roll in getting you going and horsepower sustains your acceleration.

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post #50 of 557 (permalink) Old 09-05-2014, 10:01 AM Thread Starter
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You are correct

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I thought torque played a bigger roll in getting you going and horsepower sustains your acceleration.
Torque gets you down the road not HP.

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post #51 of 557 (permalink) Old 09-05-2014, 10:13 AM Thread Starter
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Ok a 6 cylinder Supra motor is a whole different picture.,

I guess I could have used the word compressed instead of smashed. What I'm trying to prove is you don't have to spend 100+K to go fast. Since I have a degree in Aviation Technology I have a pretty good idea of what and how aerodynamics effect anything and most would be surprised by just making little adjustments can greatly effect drag.

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Engine isn't stock. It's a 2JZ.



Yes, it looks like the 2JZ build is just powering through. And a word of caution on the smash. Note when the driver lifted on the 192 run, the rear almost broke loose. A smash and lift creates a braking force which loads the front, loosens the rear...things can go bad quickly at that point.

You're going for the more subtle approach of reducing drag. Aero is a much more difficult game to play than brute force. Not to diminish brute force, as getting that kind of power out of the components used takes a tremendous amount of knowledge and know how. But aero requires a deeper level of engineering and finesse....and perhaps a wind tunnel or two.

Soon to be a LS3 but:
Lysholm 1.6 supercharger
T56 6 speed transmission
2.4 with L61 cyl head
Non VVT comp cams
DDM long tune header.
RK hood & Grnd Effects
DDMWorks suspension mods
AEM Meth Injection kit.
Elect exhaust cutout
VDI Doors
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post #52 of 557 (permalink) Old 09-05-2014, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogie View Post
Engine isn't stock. It's a 2JZ.



Yes, it looks like the 2JZ build is just powering through. And a word of caution on the smash. Note when the driver lifted on the 192 run, the rear almost broke loose. A smash and lift creates a braking force which loads the front, loosens the rear...things can go bad quickly at that point.

You're going for the more subtle approach of reducing drag. Aero is a much more difficult game to play than brute force. Not to diminish brute force, as getting that kind of power out of the components used takes a tremendous amount of knowledge and know how. But aero requires a deeper level of engineering and finesse....and perhaps a wind tunnel or two.
^^^^ Yes! If you read through his thread and you've watched his videos, this guy about chit bricks when he let off the gas after the 192 pass! He said getting there was good and the car handled well, until he tried to slow down!

Just doing my thingy... :)

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post #53 of 557 (permalink) Old 09-05-2014, 12:25 PM Thread Starter
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Can you post the video link.

I'd really like to see it.
Thanks



QUOTE=ihawk95;791754]^^^^ Yes! If you read through his thread and you've watched his videos, this guy about chit bricks when he let off the gas after the 192 pass! He said getting there was good and the car handled well, until he tried to slow down![/QUOTE]

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DDM long tune header.
RK hood & Grnd Effects
DDMWorks suspension mods
AEM Meth Injection kit.
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post #54 of 557 (permalink) Old 09-05-2014, 12:31 PM
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Anyway, here is my point. This guy has come about 8 mph short of where you want to go. And he probably has the power and components on the car to get there. I just don't know if he's pushed it to find out. He also didn't spend ridiculous amounts of $$ to do it. He did have some good connections which saved him a lot of $$ though.

Do we know of anyone else that has come close to 200 mph? I haven't seen anyone else with any other build actually try it, but I don't keep up on the forums like I used to either.

If it were me, I'd talk to the guy and find out what can be applied to your build to save you some grief through his learnings and find out what you need to overcome since we know he's probably gone faster in a kappa then anyone else. You'll get a few things out of this like what will most likely go wrong and what you need to do to get you there. He added a big ol spoiler to the back of the car at one point to try to stabilize it. No idea if that worked or not. You would get learnings like that from him in the least.

Just doing my thingy... :)

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post #55 of 557 (permalink) Old 09-05-2014, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyD View Post
I'd really like to see it.
Thanks



QUOTE=ihawk95;791754]^^^^ Yes! If you read through his thread and you've watched his videos, this guy about chit bricks when he let off the gas after the 192 pass! He said getting there was good and the car handled well, until he tried to slow down!
[/QUOTE]

Go on to the thread and watch some of his pulls while the guy is driving. The guy is a beast. A stone faced, brute, badazz. So for him to say he about crapped himself when he let off the gas is saying something. Watch him in the videos and you can see not much is going to make this guy nervous.

I don't believe he's got a video of his 192 mph pass. You might find it if you dig through his youtube videos though. I was picking through them a little yesterday, but didn't go back very far as I was busy at work.

Just doing my thingy... :)

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post #56 of 557 (permalink) Old 09-05-2014, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyD View Post
I guess I could have used the word compressed instead of smashed. What I'm trying to prove is you don't have to spend 100+K to go fast. Since I have a degree in Aviation Technology I have a pretty good idea of what and how aerodynamics effect anything and most would be surprised by just making little adjustments can greatly effect drag.
This definatley gives you a leg up in acheiving your goal. I think the 2JZ build car is leaving a lot of speed on the table not addressing the aerodynamic shortcomings of the Kappa platform. He wants it to be a sleeper though so I understand.

Looking at the underside of our cars, I bet if if you designed an underbody that was similar to what F1/Indy cars have you could generate a lot of downforce, decrease drag, and offset the condition that the 2JZ owner experianced when slowing from high speeds.


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post #57 of 557 (permalink) Old 09-05-2014, 12:55 PM Thread Starter
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Very good point I'll do that.

I've already read a lot on rear spoilers and they do cause a lot of down force to the back of the car. On the flip side they cause a lot of drag. That maybe had been the reason it got crazy when he let off. I have the full RK ground effects on my car and anything over about 120 it is stuck to the ground. The guy that was riding with me when I went 152 couldn't believe how stable and flat the car was. That being said I won't be running a rear spoiler I don't think but I am going to talk to him to get his ideas. Thanks



Quote:
Originally Posted by ihawk95 View Post
Anyway, here is my point. This guy has come about 8 mph short of where you want to go. And he probably has the power and components on the car to get there. I just don't know if he's pushed it to find out. He also didn't spend ridiculous amounts of $$ to do it. He did have some good connections which saved him a lot of $$ though.

Do we know of anyone else that has come close to 200 mph? I haven't seen anyone else with any other build actually try it, but I don't keep up on the forums like I used to either.

If it were me, I'd talk to the guy and find out what can be applied to your build to save you some grief through his learnings and find out what you need to overcome since we know he's probably gone faster in a kappa then anyone else. You'll get a few things out of this like what will most likely go wrong and what you need to do to get you there. He added a big ol spoiler to the back of the car at one point to try to stabilize it. No idea if that worked or not. You would get learnings like that from him in the least.

Soon to be a LS3 but:
Lysholm 1.6 supercharger
T56 6 speed transmission
2.4 with L61 cyl head
Non VVT comp cams
DDM long tune header.
RK hood & Grnd Effects
DDMWorks suspension mods
AEM Meth Injection kit.
Elect exhaust cutout
VDI Doors
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post #58 of 557 (permalink) Old 09-05-2014, 01:02 PM
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I guess I could have used the word compressed instead of smashed.
I like "smash". If you have a crappy Cd and make up for it with brute force HP....smash is a good illustrative term.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyD View Post
....I have a degree in Aviation Technology I have a pretty good idea of what and how aerodynamics effect anything and most would be surprised by just making little adjustments can greatly effect drag.
If you have the degree, then you have the foundation for the finesse piece. It will be an achievement indeed if you can tweak the brick we have today and turn it into (or almost into) an aero slim.

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post #59 of 557 (permalink) Old 09-05-2014, 01:27 PM Thread Starter
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Yes Im going to try without distorting the car that is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogie View Post
I like "smash". If you have a crappy Cd and make up for it with brute force HP....smash is a good illustrative term.




If you have the degree, then you have the foundation for the finesse piece. It will be an achievement indeed if you can tweak the brick we have today and turn it into (or almost into) an aero slim.
Sure wish I had a wind tunnel close. Anybody know of one somewhat close, say around 150 miles or less from Mobile? I've even seen guys use air nozzles and a smoke bar to see how it was flowing but you can't do the whole car like that. Might try a 200mph leave blower and smoke might work.

Soon to be a LS3 but:
Lysholm 1.6 supercharger
T56 6 speed transmission
2.4 with L61 cyl head
Non VVT comp cams
DDM long tune header.
RK hood & Grnd Effects
DDMWorks suspension mods
AEM Meth Injection kit.
Elect exhaust cutout
VDI Doors

Last edited by RickyD; 09-05-2014 at 01:29 PM.
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post #60 of 557 (permalink) Old 09-05-2014, 02:29 PM
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I've already read a lot on rear spoilers and they do cause a lot of down force to the back of the car. On the flip side they cause a lot of drag. That maybe had been the reason it got crazy when he let off. I have the full RK ground effects on my car and anything over about 120 it is stuck to the ground. The guy that was riding with me when I went 152 couldn't believe how stable and flat the car was. That being said I won't be running a rear spoiler I don't think but I am going to talk to him to get his ideas. Thanks
He added the spoiler after that run. Not before. Since you have me curious, I'm going to pull his run with the bike to see if he had a stock spoiler or none.

Try a local university for a wind tunnel. You have the background. You could make models and see if they'll give you some time or even see if you can get a group of enginerding students to work with you part of their design project class. My university had a wind tunnel.

Give me a few minutes and I'll find some video of the car.

Just doing my thingy... :)

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