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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
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Strange leak dilemma!?

I posted a few weeks back that I noticed a 12 in circumference liquid/stain below the front right side of my 08 Redline. https://www.skyroadster.com/forums/f2/what-95517/
The liquid seemed to be slightly viscous (maybe pink?), sightly oily......was hard to tell.
Some suggested a leaking water pump, some said maybe leaking power steering fluid.

I have since marked the liquid level in the plastic radiator reservoir, topped up my power steering fluid and keeping an eye on my radiator/water temperature.
All are in normal range, no (discernible) liquid drops, no elevated temperature increases.
(I only use the car once a week for around town errands, gym, etc)

Yesterday however, I noticed a 10 ins circular WATER puddle under the same spot, front right, near the wheel.
I took it today to my mechanic to see where the leak may be coming from.......and he saw NOTHING, nada, no sign of water, oil, wet spot, stain, nothing!

WTF!!??? What are the symptoms of a slowly failing water pump?

Condensation? But after a week. (We did have rain a few days before)
Ideas?

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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 03:59 PM
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I noticed the same thing on my 2008 Redline CFSE w/13k miles. Checked the water pump, motor mount and no leaks anywhere. Then I notice there is a small rubber tube extending out of the bottom of that area surrounded by a segmented baffle/rubber fingered thing (sorry for such a poor description.) I didn't trace where it leads to but it looks like a drain for water from above someplace. I need to investigate further but I think this was the source of the water on the floor.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Speed2 View Post
I posted a few weeks back that I noticed a 12 in circumference liquid/stain below the front right side of my 08 Redline. https://www.skyroadster.com/forums/f2/what-95517/
The liquid seemed to be slightly viscous (maybe pink?), sightly oily......was hard to tell.
Some suggested a leaking water pump, some said maybe leaking power steering fluid.

I have since marked the liquid level in the plastic radiator reservoir, topped up my power steering fluid and keeping an eye on my radiator/water temperature.
All are in normal range, no (discernible) liquid drops, no elevated temperature increases.
(I only use the car once a week for around town errands, gym, etc)

Yesterday however, I noticed a 10 ins circular WATER puddle under the same spot, front right, near the wheel.
I took it today to my mechanic to see where the leak may be coming from.......and he saw NOTHING, nada, no sign of water, oil, wet spot, stain, nothing!

WTF!!??? What are the symptoms of a slowly failing water pump?

Condensation? But after a week. (We did have rain a few days before)
Ideas?
Sounds like a water pump leak. Look for signs of coolant on the block directly under the water pump.


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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 04:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotech View Post
Sounds like a water pump leak. Look for signs of coolant on the block directly under the water pump.
We did, nothing found.
Would the fluid level in the plastic radiator overflow container drop? What other symptoms would there be?

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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Need4Speed2 View Post
We did, nothing found.
Would the fluid level in the plastic radiator overflow container drop? What other symptoms would there be?
It depends on how much is leaking. So far, yours didn't sound like much so you may not see a huge difference in the level. Keep an eye on it and see if it drops over time.

Another symptom is going to be fluctuating coolant temps like when you get an air bubble in the system. The more that leaks out, the more obvious it will be.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 06:21 PM
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A/C condensation will drip when parked if you were running A/C. Would be clear water though. Often have large puddles from this on all of my vehicles.

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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 09:39 PM
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Always remember this on the WP leaks. They usually start small and then quit for a while. And then they catastrophically fail. They could quit leaking for 50 miles...or as mine did, 2500 miles...but when it comes back, it will leave you stranded on the side of the road.... So make 100% sure that it was not your WP that leaked.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 08:33 AM
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What exactly fails on the LNF waterpump? It looks like a major PITA to replace after watching the engine build videos.
Is it higher RPM? Higher than normal temps it is designed for?
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 09:40 AM
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What exactly fails on the LNF waterpump? It looks like a major PITA to replace after watching the engine build videos.
Is it higher RPM? Higher than normal temps it is designed for?
It's very expensive and a huge pain to replace!!! It's about $1500 at a dealership to have this done. Some here will tell you they've had it done for less then $800, but that's because they went to a dealer that had ZERO clue what was all involved and didn't know how to quote a job correctly.

There's a lot of "theory" on this, but we've never really figured it out. There are several MAJOR considerations for this:

1. The WP that were included on our cars were about 8 pieces pressed together. These "pressurepoints" over time leak. New designs are less then 4 pieces.
2. Since the turbo cars usually...usually fail sooner then NA cars, it could be attributed to heat. The turbo is above the WP, the cat to the back...temps in there can get very high, thus causing premature seal failure. There is very little air that circulates in that area. If you look at Cobalt SS forums, they don't have the failure rate that we do...which is odd, but the motor is transversely mounted.
3. The coolant over time "balls up". Little microscopic balls form in the coolant and lodge themselves between the seals, causing the leak.
4. One thought that used to be far-er fetched is the vibration from the balancer chain and balancers in the motor. If that was the case, there would be more failures in the Cobalt SS, HHR SS, ATS, Camaros.... However, many people aren't in tune with their vehicles like others. And a new factor that I just found out is that the balancer chain tensioner (we have 2 chains that run our cars...a timing chain, and a balancer chain that is run off the cam and is only for the 2 balancers and the WP) is oil pressure regulated. As this tensioner wears out or the tiny oil holes plug up because of lack of oil maintenance, the balancer chain can easily skip a link...thus getting the engine out of balance and creating some major vibration issues internally that many people here won't notice. This is what I think has happened to my balancer and will find out more this weekend as I'm tearing apart my timing chain.

At any rate, follow the link below to the Solstice forum to see what we came up with...

Here's a good read: https://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/...ps-fail-74909/
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 10:34 AM
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Thank you very much The_Ghost! Great read.

I've flushed the coolant when I got the car at 40k, and again at 60k with Dex-Cool.
Installed the bleeder valves to not trap air in the system (had one incident that the temp went to 225)
Maybe I should swap the catalyzed downpipe with a cat-less one to reduce temps in the area.

The hood vents should have been functional
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by a280z View Post
Thank you very much The_Ghost! Great read.

I've flushed the coolant when I got the car at 40k, and again at 60k with Dex-Cool.
Installed the bleeder valves to not trap air in the system (had one incident that the temp went to 225)
Maybe I should swap the catalyzed downpipe with a cat-less one to reduce temps in the area.

The hood vents should have been functional
The hood vents won't help coolant temps. Has more to do with heat soak in other areas of the engine and how quickly heat can be pulled from the engine bay.

It seems when you replace the stock water pump, the new water pumps don't suffer from the same issue. Mine went at 70K and at 145K I have no issues...and that last 70K was with a turbo on the car.

IF your water pump does fail, replace it and it probably will never be an issue again.


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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 08:33 PM Thread Starter
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It's very expensive and a huge pain to replace!!! It's about $1500 at a dealership to have this done. Some here will tell you they've had it done for less then $800, but that's because they went to a dealer that had ZERO clue what was all involved and didn't know how to quote a job correctly.
I'm sure as hell ain't taking it to a dealer, my regular ole' mechanic will have to do the job, but having the right information beforehand to guide him will certainly make the process easier and cheaper.

That said, WHAT exactly is involved in the water pump replacement?

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 11:08 PM
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That said, WHAT exactly is involved in the water pump replacement?
By the book I believe it's cat/downpipe, turbo (including oil and water supply and return and PCV), and exhaust manifold. Then you can get the water pump out.

Someone recently posted some pics about how they did it by backing the water pump out, disassembling it below the turbo, and removing the halves. They reversed to install the new one.

Caveat emptor.

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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 11:29 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Huff View Post
A/C condensation will drip when parked if you were running A/C. Would be clear water though. Often have large puddles from this on all of my vehicles.
UPDATE:

After making myself nuts and doing multiple checks, AC condensation drip is what it was.

Thanks all!
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 01:53 PM
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Glad it turned out to be a non-problem.
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