Dissapointed in Trifecta budget tune - Page 2 - Saturn Sky Forums: Saturn Sky Forum
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post #16 of 62 (permalink) Old 09-28-2018, 10:01 PM Thread Starter
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Wspohn, that is what I'd read and what I was expecting.

To clarify...the before and after of both hp readings on the aeroforce gauge and the dic boost readout were all done up here at altitude just a day apart, though pretune was done at 5:30am and the after tune at 1pm so 15 degree difference. And no switchable tune, just on all the time.

I did a fair amount of reading on the tune gains and expected what wspohn reported, so not expecting 400hp at the wheels or anything, but just slightly more snap. As far as the install, yes I have a pc and an iPad, but no laptop, and from everything I'd read I'd seen 20 minutes install. Sure thought some folks would help with the laptop, but not many folks wanted to take a chance, so the ONLY shop in this little town that does tunes seemed to be the logical choice. Trifecta told me they had told me for weeks what that I'd need to pull up some info to shoot to them in order to process the tune, and that's true. The problem with that, is with the dongle not arriving for a month I had no way to know just what info they were looking for and the day we received it maybe their shop was too busy to forward the tune quickly once we figured out what they were looking for????

My Taco makes about 385 bhp and with the instant grunt of the TRD charger maybe I'm also spoiled a little by that. Truth is, it's a fun little car to drive, just wanted to add about 50-60 ponies to it and call it a day. Thanks!

Last edited by dbs1; 09-28-2018 at 10:04 PM.
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post #17 of 62 (permalink) Old 09-28-2018, 10:09 PM
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I went through them all - stock, GMPP, basic Trifecta switchable, and custom Trifecta when I added a big wheel turbo.

The basic trifecta was a nice big step beyond the GMPP, and was very noticeable. Having said that, the GMPP unleashes not so much top end power but significant amounts of torque. If you look through the old posts you can get both dyno results as well as things like 1/4 mile times for each.

No idea why you didn't experience more of a difference - do you have a stock CAT and how many miles on it - they can get 'constipated' and reduce power by quite a bit.

PS - BTW, you don't get as large a torque bump with the Trifecta as you do a power bump - the GMPP was a huge increase in torque, from 260 Tq to 340 Tq and IIRC the Trifecta torque is somewhere in the same ballpark. Add a big wheel turbo and you hit 375 bhp and c. 375 Tq.

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post #18 of 62 (permalink) Old 09-28-2018, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
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Just went out to give it a go in 75 degrees and boost would not go higher than 19-20 lbs and only showing 226 hp on the gauge vs the 217 without the tune.

Seems something is amiss so tomorrow I will pull the plugs and see what they look like and check for loose piping. Any other ideas as to what might be going on?

I installed a solo HFC a few weeks ago.

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post #19 of 62 (permalink) Old 09-28-2018, 10:57 PM
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Weird I don't recall having to pull anything from the car when I ordered the Basic tune. I mean its the basic tune so its set up for pretty much a stock car, all I needed was the vin and to tell them what intake and exhaust I had.

Once they put the file in my account I downloaded it went to the car and had it installed in probably 15 min.

To bad you didn't ask here, probably a member near you who could have helped with the install.

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I do not claim to be a GM representative, all of my postings are my own interpretation and personal opinions.

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post #20 of 62 (permalink) Old 09-28-2018, 11:01 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, I read up on it and never recall seeing that before tuning it, I'd need to shoot Trifecta some info.
And I suppose there might be another sky redline owner up here in a town of 5000, but a tuned one...who knows.
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post #21 of 62 (permalink) Old 09-29-2018, 12:03 AM
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Download the Trifecta budget tune to a laptop, plug into the car, and upload it to the car. 10 minutes later, you have a switchable choice of stock or upgraded tune. It is simple to do and it provides immediate results.

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post #22 of 62 (permalink) Old 09-29-2018, 09:10 AM
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DBS1
You are getting the proper range of boost.
Without doing full logs on your tune it's going to be real hard to gauge what the problem is.
Speaking of gauges, I am not sure if your Aeroforce gauge is the best judge of HP.

You might not be having any issues and are just relying on something for information that is an estimator of power.

A DynoRun would let you know the actual power you are receiving and some logging would show a lot more information, but that puts you into the custom tuning world and cost.

I think at the moment, the best you can hope for is guesses on what is occurring as we have no way of gathering information.

wsphon.
The trifecta budget tune, westers canned tune and other canned tunes only have a 10-15Wheel HP difference over the GMPP
280-290WHP on most Dynos
GMPP has 265-270WHP on most Dynos
I wouldn't call that a big step as that really won't translate into much if any speed

I hope people are not confused by the difference between bhp and whp. The values have been jumping from one to the other in this post

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Last edited by Elff; 09-29-2018 at 09:12 AM.
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post #23 of 62 (permalink) Old 09-29-2018, 12:59 PM Thread Starter
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I appreciate all the input and comments guys. I don't see the aeroforce gauge as an accurate instrument to gauge exact hp, but I do think it would be able to show gains from different mods if atmospheric conditions are similar.

I'm not planning on a dyno tune. After several vehicles over the years of that program I'm out in the pasture with this little guy. I'll probably never even run it down the 1/4 mile or out on the road course. Budget constraints you know.

At this point, just wanting to have a little roadster with enough oomph to pass someone safely😆

This is only the second vehicle with a hair dryer I've owned. The other was a truck that ran mid 13's with an sc on it and I let my mech talk me into putting a turbo on it to drop to low 12's. Absolutely ruined the ability to use it for anything else and the turbo lag of it and this sky is a little annoying. Is there any adjustment for that? I thought the tune would improve that as well.
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post #24 of 62 (permalink) Old 09-29-2018, 01:05 PM
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Turbo lag? It's almost negligible with the stock turbo. Are you sure you aren't mistaking the usual wait for an engine to 'come on the cam' for turbo lag? On the stock engine the torque is all there at 2,000 rpm and flat lines from there (due to programming).


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1958 MGA Twincam
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1971 Jensen Interceptor
2007 BMW Z4M coupe
2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP Coupe
departed
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1969 Lamborghini Islero S
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post #25 of 62 (permalink) Old 09-29-2018, 02:48 PM Thread Starter
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Because I'm used to a twin screw sc on the Tacoma and a 620hp na vette, I can't say for sure what it is, but from my experience with the turbo truck I'm thinking it is turbo lag.
I've got to stay on the throttle a bit right off idle and when shifting so it doesn't drop the revs and even then I get about a 1 second count before it gets on board fully and goes.
Again, not a turbo expert by any means but that's what it feels like to me. The "no lift" feature of the GM tune would probably solve it when jumping on shifts in anger I suppose, but if there was anyone close to me familiar with these little guys I'd let them drive it and give me an opinion.
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post #26 of 62 (permalink) Old 09-30-2018, 04:42 AM
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The LNF has a very tiny amount of turbo lag and very smooth, linear power thanks to its appropriately-sized twin-scroll turbo. It certainly doesn't suffer from the long (and, in my opinion, oddly enjoyable) turbo lag that cars from the 90's and earlier suffered, where the revs really needed to build and then you got a massive punch of boost.

But, it still has a very little bit--if you come off the throttle and then jump back on you won't get the truly instantaneous hit of power you get with an NA or supercharged engine. You already noticed that you need to keep the throttle on to keep the boost up, and that's exactly why the NLS exists, but you don't need it, and I think after a little while you'll get used to how to get the most out of it. I think your car is probably running fine.

My previous "toy" had a 6.0L LS2 and I don't regret letting it go, the LNF is plenty of fun.
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post #27 of 62 (permalink) Old 09-30-2018, 07:59 PM
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You should only feel turbo lag in first gear from 0-2300RPMs. Once you break 2500rpms, you should never be out of boost in 2nd through 5th gear, unless you drive or shift like miss daisy.

Also,
You can't compare a turbo to a SC or large displacement NA V8.
They are completely different beasts.

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post #28 of 62 (permalink) Old 09-30-2018, 08:08 PM
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Not sure why you started a new thread to discuss the same topic.
K04 turbo with a CANNED non custom tune, is why you are hitting 21psi.
Atmospheric pressures might cause it to spike a little higher, but it is a spike.
Since you can't log, you don't know what they set the Desired Boost to.
But that is a parameter of the tune. You should ask them

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post #29 of 62 (permalink) Old 10-01-2018, 03:43 AM Thread Starter
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In Phx today. 24lbs of boost no problem there so it does appear that elevation is indeed playing a role in things. Thanks.
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post #30 of 62 (permalink) Old 10-01-2018, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Elff View Post
You should only feel turbo lag in first gear from 0-2300RPMs. Once you break 2500rpms, you should never be out of boost in 2nd through 5th gear, unless you drive or shift like miss daisy.

Also,
You can't compare a turbo to a SC or large displacement NA V8.
They are completely different beasts.
I don't know what engine speed has to do with the occurrence of lag, since it will happen any time the amount of boost level is required to increase significantly. While cruising, even at 3k RPM, there is some lag when accelerating to pass. It isn't a lot, but it is there.

I completely agree with the difference between the turbo and a belt-driven SC. I didn't really notice the lag in the RL until after I drove it back-to-back with the supercharged 2.4.

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