looking for help with my battery - Page 3 - Saturn Sky Forums: Saturn Sky Forum
Saturn Sky Redline Discussion Forum for discussion of aspects of the anticipated hi-performance version of the Saturn Sky.

User Tag List

 4Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #31 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 10:55 AM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 277
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 119 Post(s)
And thus the reason I posted about "Gone in 60 Seconds". The whole post is a bit fishy. If it were legit, your gonna have to get a key cut at the dealer, why not just have it towed for $100 and quit farting around with trying to be so cheap? Oh that's right, a dealer will ask you for proof of ownership, a shady locksmith wont.

Last edited by The_Ghost; 08-06-2019 at 10:59 AM.
The_Ghost is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 11:10 AM
Moderator
 
JohnWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 4,696
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NikK View Post
If it's a Redline and not an Opel GT, sorry but this entire thread is fishy at best, in 2016 he posts about a broken key and now in 2019 again about a dead battery?
Almost seems like someone abandoned that car years ago and someone's looking for ways to get it.
Nothing that has been suggested would really help to steal it. Besides which, if it really has been abandoned that long it would be better for it to go to someone who wants it than to rot into the ground.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyVue2 View Post
That was back in the olden days.
Now there is a chip in them which is programmed to the VIN.
Actually, no. The cut of the key is "programmed" to the VIN, but the chip for each key is individually learned by the car.

John
Lexington, KY
Sky NA 2007 Midnight Blue
Sky RL 2008 Carbon Flash - Naked
JohnWR is offline  
post #33 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 03:32 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 615
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnWR View Post
Nothing that has been suggested would really help to steal it. Besides which, if it really has been abandoned that long it would be better for it to go to someone who wants it than to rot into the ground.

Actually, no. The cut of the key is "programmed" to the VIN, but the chip for each key is individually learned by the car.
Doesn't matter if it's abandoned or not, last time i checked there's no law that allows for someone to get ownership of an abandoned car.
The city/state/country sure, individuals no.

But yes, the things mentioned are hardly hard to think of.
NikK is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 05:16 PM
Super Moderator
 
Robotech's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 10,687
Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1702 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by NikK View Post
Doesn't matter if it's abandoned or not, last time i checked there's no law that allows for someone to get ownership of an abandoned car.
The city/state/country sure, individuals no.

But yes, the things mentioned are hardly hard to think of.
We actually had a case out here in CA about that. An old van had been abandoned for so long a tree had grown around it. The land it was on was owned by someone but being out in the middle of the desert and with no structures nearby, it appeared abandoned. Someone got it and restored it to it's original condition. It had been in a 70s movie and the new owner had restored it to its silver screen glory.

...well, not really the new owner as the TRUE owner now came out and said it was his van and he wanted it back and didn't feel he needed to pay for the restoration since the restorer took the van without permission to begin with.

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-vid...ild-cherry-van

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-vid...erry-van-found


V.A.L. (#1108)
2007 2.4 Base
MagnaFlow dual outlet, quad tip exhaust test car
**Sold**

Max (#1547)
2007 TURBO 2.4
Too much to list here. See my Garage for details.
Robotech is offline  
post #35 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 05:59 PM
Moderator
 
JohnWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 4,696
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotech View Post
We actually had a case out here in CA about that. An old van had been abandoned for so long a tree had grown around it. The land it was on was owned by someone but being out in the middle of the desert and with no structures nearby, it appeared abandoned. Someone got it and restored it to it's original condition. It had been in a 70s movie and the new owner had restored it to its silver screen glory.

...well, not really the new owner as the TRUE owner now came out and said it was his van and he wanted it back and didn't feel he needed to pay for the restoration since the restorer took the van without permission to begin with.

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-vid...ild-cherry-van

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-vid...erry-van-found
I found some more of the back-story on that, and the key item is that the van was sitting on the property of the original owners. It appeared to be abandoned, but was technically in their possession the whole time. If it had sat for 20 years on someone else's property it may have been a totally different situation.

The guy who did the restoration, and the deconstruction, is now the true owner since the court ordered him to pay the original owners $5,000 (for the $500 van). His lawyer says that he plans to re-restore it.

John
Lexington, KY
Sky NA 2007 Midnight Blue
Sky RL 2008 Carbon Flash - Naked
JohnWR is offline  
post #36 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 06:05 PM
Super Moderator
 
Robotech's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 10,687
Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1702 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnWR View Post
I found some more of the back-story on that, and the key item is that the van was sitting on the property of the original owners. It appeared to be abandoned, but was technically in their possession the whole time. If it had sat for 20 years on someone else's property it may have been a totally different situation.

The guy who did the restoration, and the deconstruction, is now the true owner since the court ordered him to pay the original owners $5,000 (for the $500 van). His lawyer says that he plans to re-restore it.
Nice. Last I read it hadn't been resolved and I just skimmed that article on where they found it. Great story though...


V.A.L. (#1108)
2007 2.4 Base
MagnaFlow dual outlet, quad tip exhaust test car
**Sold**

Max (#1547)
2007 TURBO 2.4
Too much to list here. See my Garage for details.
Robotech is offline  
post #37 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 06:08 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Midland Ontario Canada
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by davhamm View Post
Unless it's old I doubt it. Most/ all of the jump packs now have a "feature" that prevents you from hooking up backward and blowing the battery. The way it works it just checks for positive voltage, typically 3 - 5 volts. So if you have a truely dead (less than 5v battery) it wont charge. Now you need about 10V to start a car, so you can have a "dead" battery that wont start a car (less than 10v) But its not really DEAD.. you get a DEAD (less than 5V) battery, and the only way to jump it is one without the "protection circuitry"

But I am confused why you think (other than this pos to pos vs pos to neg) protection, that you think a jump back is safer than jumping it with cables.
Most power packs also have an override that you can use with caution and will start a dead battery.
copdriver91 is offline  
post #38 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 06:13 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Midland Ontario Canada
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyVue2 View Post
That was back in the olden days.
Now there is a chip in them which is programmed to the VIN.
I know about the chip but what about the metal part that's inserted into the switch or are they all the same cuts now? Just a question since I don't know.
Sorry I posted this before I read jwr"s post

Last edited by copdriver91; 08-06-2019 at 06:20 PM.
copdriver91 is offline  
post #39 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 06:28 PM
Moderator
 
JohnWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 4,696
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotech View Post
Nice. Last I read it hadn't been resolved and I just skimmed that article on where they found it. Great story though...
The sad thing is that the idiot could have avoided all of the hassle if he had just gone to the DMV and requested information about the van's current owner.

John
Lexington, KY
Sky NA 2007 Midnight Blue
Sky RL 2008 Carbon Flash - Naked
JohnWR is offline  
post #40 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 07:24 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 615
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotech View Post
We actually had a case out here in CA about that. An old van had been abandoned for so long a tree had grown around it. The land it was on was owned by someone but being out in the middle of the desert and with no structures nearby, it appeared abandoned. Someone got it and restored it to it's original condition. It had been in a 70s movie and the new owner had restored it to its silver screen glory.

...well, not really the new owner as the TRUE owner now came out and said it was his van and he wanted it back and didn't feel he needed to pay for the restoration since the restorer took the van without permission to begin with.

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-vid...ild-cherry-van

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-vid...erry-van-found

So over there someone can trespass, steal a vehicle and just have to pay like if he had bought it? Nice......
NikK is offline  
post #41 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 07:37 PM
Moderator
 
JohnWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 4,696
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NikK View Post
So over there someone can trespass, steal a vehicle and just have to pay like if he had bought it? Nice......
Not exactly:
Quote:
Chris Carter plead guilty mid-May to one of the felony counts of driving or taking a vehicle without consent, while three other charges against him were dropped.

Carter was ordered to pay US$5,000 restitution to the Godins, as well as nearly US$1,000 to the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department for towing and impound fees.
A felony conviction is not something to take lightly.

John
Lexington, KY
Sky NA 2007 Midnight Blue
Sky RL 2008 Carbon Flash - Naked
JohnWR is offline  
post #42 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 08:54 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 277
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 119 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by copdriver91 View Post
I know about the chip but what about the metal part that's inserted into the switch or are they all the same cuts now? Just a question since I don't know.
Sorry I posted this before I read jwr"s post
The metal portion on the Kappas is cut to a specific key code for your vehicle. I'll give the example of Ford....Ford had 14 key cuts and their ignitions/door locks accepted 35 different combos....so there were 14 x 35 = 490 different combinations. On the Kappa the metal portion is cut. Once inserted into the ignition, there is a resistance that the key puts out. The BCM must learn that resistance. Once it has learned that resistance (not sure of the range of resistance) but when the key is inserted to start the car, a current is passed through the metal portion and the resistance is read by the BCM. The resistance must be within +-0.02ohms(I think) in order for the BCM to allow the car to start. Each key is different and has a different resistance and nobody can guess as it's completely random. On more expensive cars, keys are milled or "laser cut". So instead of the outside edges being cut to fit in the cylinder, the middle of the key is milled down with a path so the key can be inserted. This provides for a much harder, larger combination of key codes.

Newer cars are different. They have programmed codes or frequencies (like Ford had when I worked for them) in the key head. So when the key is inserted, the code/frequency is read from the key, if it doesn't match, the car won't start. Push button starts work completely on frequency the same way. More expensive cars like Mercedes have frequency and codes for their push button starts...so both must match.

EDIT: As John pointed out below, I completely was stuck on the resistor keys and forgot about the RFID chips in the Kappas. He is completly right! Kappas have RFID, not resistor.

Last edited by The_Ghost; 08-07-2019 at 08:35 PM.
The_Ghost is online now  
post #43 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 08:59 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 277
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 119 Post(s)
So working in the dealer world, it is possible to take ownership of an abandoned car. Here in MI, you must take pics of the car, and the VIN to the SOS (DMV) and file an abandoned car form. If the PO doesn't respond in 45 days, the car is yours. We had a tow company that would make it a habit of going out on the freeway and picking up cars for the state police on the freeways. They would give the owners 10 days, then file the paperwork. He actually made a pretty good living off of it. There was one that went 48 days. The dude came down and threatened the tow owner with a gun...it was ugly. (Might I add that was the fourth time I had a gun pointed at me by someone other then a police officer!!) Needless to say, I walked away and called 911....after everything was done, the tow owner called him and let him have his car back.
The_Ghost is online now  
post #44 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 09:51 PM
Moderator
 
JohnWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 4,696
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Ghost View Post
The metal portion on the Kappas is cut to a specific key code for your vehicle. I'll give the example of Ford....Ford had 14 key cuts and their ignitions/door locks accepted 35 different combos....so there were 14 x 35 = 490 different combinations. On the Kappa the metal portion is cut. Once inserted into the ignition, there is a resistance that the key puts out. The BCM must learn that resistance. Once it has learned that resistance (not sure of the range of resistance) but when the key is inserted to start the car, a current is passed through the metal portion and the resistance is read by the BCM. The resistance must be within +-0.02ohms(I think) in order for the BCM to allow the car to start. Each key is different and has a different resistance and nobody can guess as it's completely random. On more expensive cars, keys are milled or "laser cut". So instead of the outside edges being cut to fit in the cylinder, the middle of the key is milled down with a path so the key can be inserted. This provides for a much harder, larger combination of key codes.

Newer cars are different. They have programmed codes or frequencies (like Ford had when I worked for them) in the key head. So when the key is inserted, the code/frequency is read from the key, if it doesn't match, the car won't start. Push button starts work completely on frequency the same way. More expensive cars like Mercedes have frequency and codes for their push button starts...so both must match.
My Kappa keys do not have resistors, they have RFID chips in the head. I think GM phased-out the resistor-based VATS keys in 2003.

And my Chevy Equinox has a laser-cut "sidewinder" key. GM started using them in 2004 and now uses them in just about everything,"more expensive" or not.

John
Lexington, KY
Sky NA 2007 Midnight Blue
Sky RL 2008 Carbon Flash - Naked
JohnWR is offline  
post #45 of 48 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 08:08 AM
Senior Member
 
davhamm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: SE Mi
Posts: 1,278
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 461 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by copdriver91 View Post
Most power packs also have an override that you can use with caution and will start a dead battery.

Have not seen that on any of the ones we have at work. I have not personally shopped for them in a while, and my Battery Tender trickle charger does not.

Got a link

I am a GM Engineer.

I do not claim to be a GM representative, all of my postings are my own interpretation and personal opinions.

2009 HYDRO REDLINE AUTO
davhamm is offline  
Reply

  Saturn Sky Forums: Saturn Sky Forum > Saturn Sky Discussion > Saturn Sky Redline Discussion

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Saturn Sky Forums: Saturn Sky Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome