Replacing Water Pump and What Else? - Saturn Sky Forums: Saturn Sky Forum
Saturn Sky Redline Discussion Forum for discussion of aspects of the anticipated hi-performance version of the Saturn Sky.

User Tag List

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-18-2018, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: League City, TX (Houston)
Posts: 2,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Replacing Water Pump and What Else?

Note: Also posted in the Sol Forum

So, after 82,000+ Miles, the water pump in my '08 Sky Redline finally succumbed (Is this a record?? LOL!). Luckily, I bought an Extended Warranty or Insurance Policy for this very expectation. Insurance pays $1078, I pay $200 deduct.

While it is being fixed at Gay Buick GMC (Formerly Gay Pontiac) in Dickinson, TX, I am wondering what other wear items are easily accessible while the WP is being extracted.

Like the Timing Chain Tensioner? Wasn't there a Service Bulletin to replace the Tensioner with a newer design?

What about the A/C Belt? I know that the A/C Comp is on the other side of the engine, but is this job any easier with all of the crapola out of the way to do the WP job?

Any other suggestions?

Thanks!

Yogi

"Black Bart"
2008 Onyx Black Redline with Black Convertible Top
5 Speed Stick
Single Disk Monsoon Sound
Black Interior with Black Leather Seats
GM MB-222 Chrome "Snowflake" Wheels
Yogi is offline  
post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-19-2018, 02:01 PM
Super Moderator
 
Robotech's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 10,436
Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1608 Post(s)
Garage
Really the only things easier to access while the water pump is off would be things like your downpipe, O2 sensors, turbo, the gaskets that go in those areas, thermostat, and coolant temperature sensor. Everything else would require more work to get to.

All the things you mentioned are on the front of the engine and would require further labor charges to get to them. If you were going with a new timing chain tensioner though the Accessory belt (drives the Power steering pump and AC compressor) would need to come off anyway so that could be replaced at no extra labor charge than would be required to take off the front engine plate.

Now, IF they mess up your water pump install and the chain that drives the pump moves, they will NEED to take off that front engine plate and you could address these things at THAT time...but that's going to be you negotiating with the dealership at that point. "Well, you guys are there anyway and since the tensioner may be damaged by having it overtight and the chain putting too much wear on it could you just replace that and then charge me the labor it would take to take care of the one on the timing chain too? Thanks." LOL


V.A.L. (#1108)
2007 2.4 Base
MagnaFlow dual outlet, quad tip exhaust test car
**Sold**

Max (#1547)
2007 TURBO 2.4
Too much to list here. See my Garage for details.
Robotech is offline  
post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-19-2018, 04:42 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: League City, TX (Houston)
Posts: 2,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotech View Post
Really the only things easier to access while the water pump is off would be things like your downpipe, O2 sensors, turbo, the gaskets that go in those areas, thermostat, and coolant temperature sensor. Everything else would require more work to get to.

All the things you mentioned are on the front of the engine and would require further labor charges to get to them. If you were going with a new timing chain tensioner though the Accessory belt (drives the Power steering pump and AC compressor) would need to come off anyway so that could be replaced at no extra labor charge than would be required to take off the front engine plate.
Holy Cow, ROBO!
So, if I understand ya correctly, ya hafta remove the P/S - A/C belt AND the engine front cover IF ya want to replace the TC Tensioner?? WOW! And here I thought that it was like a LARGE spark plug that just screwed in from the top? Obviously NOT!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotech View Post
Now, IF they mess up your water pump install and the chain that drives the pump moves, they will NEED to take off that front engine plate and you could address these things at THAT time...but that's going to be you negotiating with the dealership at that point. "Well, you guys are there anyway and since the tensioner may be damaged by having it overtight and the chain putting too much wear on it could you just replace that and then charge me the labor it would take to take care of the one on the timing chain too? Thanks." LOL
Forgive my LNF ignorance once again, ROBO, but I have colored and underlined where it appears that yer are talkin bout TWO SEPARATE TENSIONERS. I know that there are 2 chains (Cams + Balance) BUT do they both have individual TENSIONERS?

I almost fergot:
Have ya seen anybody use this "Upper Timing Chain Guide Bolt" replacement Bolt/Plug? (Item #5 in the lower photo) https://www.skyroadster.com/forums/f...ml#post1208377

It seems like the torque/tension on this replacement Bolt would be seriously limited by the sealing O-Ring. If ya tightened it too tight, it would mash the O-Ring into a bunch of rubber chips. Too loose, and the bolt would just back out like the OEM bolt. Thoughts?

Thank ya so much, Mr. Wizzard!

Yogi

"Black Bart"
2008 Onyx Black Redline with Black Convertible Top
5 Speed Stick
Single Disk Monsoon Sound
Black Interior with Black Leather Seats
GM MB-222 Chrome "Snowflake" Wheels
Yogi is offline  
post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-20-2018, 03:00 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Philadelphia PA
Posts: 158
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yogi View Post
Holy Cow, ROBO!
So, if I understand ya correctly, ya hafta remove the P/S - A/C belt AND the engine front cover IF ya want to replace the TC Tensioner?? WOW! And here I thought that it was like a LARGE spark plug that just screwed in from the top? Obviously NOT!!



Forgive my LNF ignorance once again, ROBO, but I have colored and underlined where it appears that yer are talkin bout TWO SEPARATE TENSIONERS. I know that there are 2 chains (Cams + Balance) BUT do they both have individual TENSIONERS?

I almost fergot:
Have ya seen anybody use this "Upper Timing Chain Guide Bolt" replacement Bolt/Plug? (Item #5 in the lower photo) https://www.skyroadster.com/forums/f...ml#post1208377

It seems like the torque/tension on this replacement Bolt would be seriously limited by the sealing O-Ring. If ya tightened it too tight, it would mash the O-Ring into a bunch of rubber chips. Too loose, and the bolt would just back out like the OEM bolt. Thoughts?

Thank ya so much, Mr. Wizzard!

Yogi
I can say with 100% certainty that one of the tensioners (cam chain) is on the side of the block and simply unscrews. Be careful not to slip timing...speaking from experience with an inop sky in my back yard...
Rockchops is offline  
post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-20-2018, 05:42 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: League City, TX (Houston)
Posts: 2,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Thanks, Rockchops. It's at the dealer, so if they screw it up, it's their problem!

"Black Bart"
2008 Onyx Black Redline with Black Convertible Top
5 Speed Stick
Single Disk Monsoon Sound
Black Interior with Black Leather Seats
GM MB-222 Chrome "Snowflake" Wheels
Yogi is offline  
post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-21-2018, 10:49 AM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 217
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Yogi, as I stated on the Solstice forum, not certain if you really should take your car there. Unless you really don't care about how well the job is done. I have been in close to 200 dealerships nationwide, and they were one of them and after what I encountered there, I would never take my own vehicle there. I hope that I'm wrong and they do a superb job for you.
The_Ghost is offline  
post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-21-2018, 11:58 PM
Member
 
Emmett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 250
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Garage
I don't know about that price... I'm in Danville CA and the garage that services my car would charge less than 200$ for the coolant fix. Pass on the dealership. A dealership is focused on servicing cars less than 6 years old. GM doesn't care about a 10 year old Saturn.

89,000 miles is not a lot of miles. You should be good on major repairs until 180,000. Don't do the tensioner.

I'd replace the thermostat, the coolant reservoir (it has a sensor in it that can go bad), the wire harness that connects to the coolant reservoir and the water pump. I don't have the part number for the wire harness - my mechanic figured it out and ordered it. That should make it so you won't have coolant messages for the next 60,000 miles.

If you replace the O2-sensor purchase it on a gm-parts site. And confirm that your mechanic knows how to tighten it with a torque wrench.

Consider replacing the sparkplugs and throttle body. If they find oil on the old spark plugs that could mean you need a new valve cover gasket.

The electric wiring in the throttle can melt - resulting in sluggish performance and lower gas mileage (youtube it). Plugs are cheap - but a new throttle body goes for 300$ including shipping.

The coolant related parts will cost you about $160 - if purchased on-line. And let's say you get the throttle body. Total 500$ in parts.

Here in CA the labor for everything would be less than 400$. And that tune up should last you 80,000 miles. Someone else will probably own your car by then.

Last edited by Emmett; 10-22-2018 at 12:06 AM.
Emmett is offline  
post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-22-2018, 06:51 AM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 217
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmett View Post
I don't know about that price... I'm in Danville CA and the garage that services my car would charge less than 200$ for the coolant fix. Pass on the dealership. A dealership is focused on servicing cars less than 6 years old. GM doesn't care about a 10 year old Saturn.

89,000 miles is not a lot of miles. You should be good on major repairs until 180,000. Don't do the tensioner.

I'd replace the thermostat, the coolant reservoir (it has a sensor in it that can go bad), the wire harness that connects to the coolant reservoir and the water pump. I don't have the part number for the wire harness - my mechanic figured it out and ordered it. That should make it so you won't have coolant messages for the next 60,000 miles.

If you replace the O2-sensor purchase it on a gm-parts site. And confirm that your mechanic knows how to tighten it with a torque wrench.

Consider replacing the sparkplugs and throttle body. If they find oil on the old spark plugs that could mean you need a new valve cover gasket.

The electric wiring in the throttle can melt - resulting in sluggish performance and lower gas mileage (youtube it). Plugs are cheap - but a new throttle body goes for 300$ including shipping.

The coolant related parts will cost you about $160 - if purchased on-line. And let's say you get the throttle body. Total 500$ in parts.

Here in CA the labor for everything would be less than 400$. And that tune up should last you 80,000 miles. Someone else will probably own your car by then.
You are INCORRECT about your pricing. Labor time alone for the WP is over 7 hours!!! At $120/hr that's $840 just for labor!!! Trust me, I have access to the GM service manual and the labor hours it takes.
The_Ghost is offline  
post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-22-2018, 07:33 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Parker Colorado
Posts: 4,143
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 176 Post(s)
Consider replacing the hoses. I was taught 4-5 years and 60k miles is the point where you want to consider changing them.

Rob the Elder is offline  
post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-22-2018, 11:02 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: League City, TX (Houston)
Posts: 2,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Ghost View Post
Yogi, as I stated on the Solstice forum, not certain if you really should take your car there. Unless you really don't care about how well the job is done. I have been in close to 200 dealerships nationwide, and they were one of them and after what I encountered there, I would never take my own vehicle there. I hope that I'm wrong and they do a superb job for you.
Thanks, Ghost.
Yogi
Yogi is offline  
post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-23-2018, 12:18 PM
Super Moderator
 
Robotech's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 10,436
Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1608 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockchops View Post
I can say with 100% certainty that one of the tensioners (cam chain) is on the side of the block and simply unscrews. Be careful not to slip timing...speaking from experience with an inop sky in my back yard...
That's part of the timing chain tensioner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yogi View Post
Holy Cow, ROBO!
So, if I understand ya correctly, ya hafta remove the P/S - A/C belt AND the engine front cover IF ya want to replace the TC Tensioner?? WOW! And here I thought that it was like a LARGE spark plug that just screwed in from the top? Obviously NOT!!


Forgive my LNF ignorance once again, ROBO, but I have colored and underlined where it appears that yer are talkin bout TWO SEPARATE TENSIONERS. I know that there are 2 chains (Cams + Balance) BUT do they both have individual TENSIONERS?


Thank ya so much, Mr. Wizzard!

Yogi
https://techwireless.ecrater.com/p/2...-chain-kit-cam

I'm attaching the above link to a timing chain set since it has all the parts I'm going to talk about. I'm attaching the picture too but that doesn't always work so...

If you look at the attached picture, you'll see the two chains...the upper one is your true timing chain, the other one is the one that drives your water pump and balance shafts.

Just below the sprocket pictured with the upper chain is the tensioner Rockchops mentions. This part pushes against the long curved piece it is pointing to and what I was referencing as a tensioner before. You'll see this piece is silver with a beige "pad" on it. The silver part is aluminum but the "pad" is a form of plastic (don't know if it's delrin, nylon, etc...). It's this plastic "pad" that wears and eventually will disappear completely. When this is gone, you have metal chain on aluminum arm and that's bad. LOL When people talk about the tensioner wearing out or being damaged by running the chain over-tightened due to allowing the water pump sprocket to slip during a water pump changeout, this is the piece they're talking about.

You also will note a number of other "beige guides" in the picture on the lower chain. There is one, the very bottom one, that only has one hole in it right next to the large lowermost sprocket. This is the other tensioner. It can wear out too. There is another guide in this setup that is not pictured and it goes on the timing chain (upper chain) between the two big sprockets. This is also silver with a beige pad like that chain's tensioner and it too can wear and cause metal on metal contact when worn out.

Everything you see in that picture except for the one tensioner piece Rockchops mentioned is only accessible via the front engine cover.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	timingchains.jpg
Views:	32
Size:	114.2 KB
ID:	103079  


V.A.L. (#1108)
2007 2.4 Base
MagnaFlow dual outlet, quad tip exhaust test car
**Sold**

Max (#1547)
2007 TURBO 2.4
Too much to list here. See my Garage for details.

Last edited by Robotech; 10-23-2018 at 12:23 PM.
Robotech is offline  
Reply

  Saturn Sky Forums: Saturn Sky Forum > Saturn Sky Discussion > Saturn Sky Redline Discussion

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Saturn Sky Forums: Saturn Sky Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome