Finally The Skpel is running - Page 2 - Saturn Sky Forums: Saturn Sky Forum
Saturn Sky Performance Discussion Internal Engine | External Engine | Suspension | Exhaust | Upgrades and Aftermarket

User Tag List

 11Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #16 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-13-2018, 08:49 AM
Member
 
Elff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Keebler, PA
Posts: 4,356
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
Garage
I helped a local guy swap in a new engine in his solstice.
He has my powell catch can and this turbo and its running great.

Once you get the gremlins out, its a set it and forget it deal. Just dont raise your rpm limits like I did.
Its fun, but the stock top cant handle it.

Good luck. I think you are approaching light at the end of the tunnel

LUSIFER is Sold!
say hello to
RYUK

I'm not short, I'm concentrated AWESOME
Elff is offline  
post #17 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-13-2018, 09:56 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member

 
skersfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Near Idyllwild, California
Posts: 4,970
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 775 Post(s)
Garage
Yea we put a breather on the catch can, oil just poured out of it. Never had a drop before the turbo upgrade. We messed with it all day. I think the plug and play wires that were wired wrong have caused problems in the ecm. Not an electronics expert by any means but when you cross wire something, normally their is a price to pay somewhere. Today we loaded the new tune and turned the lap top off/disconnected it frome the port and the service air bag light came on?

The car runs perfectly for awhile, but the codes for the MAP sensor are almost intantly in pending errors (as I understand it) The car runs fine for awhile then the engine light comes on. The changes in sound and we seem to have exhaust leaks. The car goes from running at 192 to 212 just idling and the fan goes to full throttle, but shuts off when you turn the car off. It has never done that before. The car in four years never had a code.

I wanted to order the Powell item, but really do not think the problem is there. It has to be a leak some where, and the computer trying to compentsate for the error. The car is impressive when it is running right. But when the code comes on the cars just changes. It does not go into limp mode. Robo thinks he figured something out today. Thinks possibly the perimiters can be changed by the tune. I don't know a thing about this stuff, so it is painful for me. I don't like running my car this hard to do the logs. Doing this now for almost 4 months is just too long to be good for a car.

But according to Robo the tune is perfect, no knock, runs fantastically, then he leaves and the car goes F you and does its fun stuff . lol

Last edited by skersfan; 10-13-2018 at 09:58 PM.
skersfan is offline  
post #18 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-14-2018, 03:40 PM
Member
 
Elff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Keebler, PA
Posts: 4,356
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
Garage
Venting to air on a catch can does not work on our cars. Had a similar discussion on the Kappa Performance forum. The guy was draining his oil via the vent.

What would be really helpful would be logs from when it starts running bad. If you could hook the laptop up and go for a drive with the Scanner on that could show a whole bunch of information. if the AFR is bouncing all over the place, that would show you have an air leak as the computer would be trying to compensate for that. It also show a bunch of other parameters.

LUSIFER is Sold!
say hello to
RYUK

I'm not short, I'm concentrated AWESOME
Elff is offline  
post #19 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-14-2018, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member

 
skersfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Near Idyllwild, California
Posts: 4,970
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 775 Post(s)
Garage
Elf, does this turbo require the oil catch can. Seems like a lot of oil coming out the filter we installed. It does not have an opening for it like the stock turbo, so will need to go into the intake tube correct, with a barb to attach the vent from the back of the cam cover? to eliminate it I guess. No chance to drive it today, will work on it tomorrow.
skersfan is offline  
post #20 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-14-2018, 08:02 PM
Member
 
Elff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Keebler, PA
Posts: 4,356
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
Garage
It is not required, but please read the following explanation from the Powell PCV Oil Separator instructions.
Please pay special attention to the last sentence
which is why I keep telling you to eliminate your vent to air filter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powell PCV Oil Seperator directions

Please understand that for the LNF group, there is a WORLD WIDE issue with most every direct injection gasoline engine with inlet valve coking. Basically, excess oil in the PCV system ends up being deposited on the inlet valves, and with DI unlike port injection, there is no “washing” of the inlet valves with a fuel air charge.

There is no one single solution, although we have found good gains with the PCV upgrade so far. There are other important things to consider. The suggested changes for your car include:

• using low ash engine oil
• change in your driving routine, avoiding low rev/high boost driving.
• always use tier one gasoline
• always use 93 octane or better


• Some of our customers and friends have fresh clean valves in their cars thanks to warranty, and if not, a borescope snapshot of what they look like

For the record, proper installation of any catch can or PCV upgrade is important. A catchcan on the fresh air side is silly.

For the LNF, the OEM system has:
• On the fresh air side running post filter and pre turbo impeller; a check valve in the hose (thats the orifice) and it lets air in to the engine. This inlet air path goes directly to the base of the engine and is sealed from the upper cylinder head.

• There is another vent route out through the head into the inlet manifold. There is a check valve in the inlet manifold vent path, so the engine on vacuum ( off boost) can breathe fumes into the inlet manifold. The check valve there closes the moment the inlet is not pulling vacuum.



• There is a vent tube with an internal orifice on the dirty side, it vents to the turbo on the intake side.

• There is a “floor” in the dirty side route in the rocker cover with horizontal seperators

Catch cans without a seperator in two chambers really just become an accumulator of oil.
The idea is for the oil laden air on the dirty side to pass through the media ( or spill plates) so the air can leave the oil behind and then be sent on to the original routing.

Then the question is, what to do with the accumulated oil? it needs a place to go, and draining it after every track session or every week on the street onto your driveway or into a plastic bottle is not a good way to do it.


• I have a way and it makes the system better, while preserving the stock PCV operation which is very important.
If you vent the pcv to atmosphere with a filter like a hot rod vent cap, all bets are off and the pcv system will not work at all as intended

LUSIFER is Sold!
say hello to
RYUK

I'm not short, I'm concentrated AWESOME
Elff is offline  
post #21 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-14-2018, 08:13 PM
Member
 
Elff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Keebler, PA
Posts: 4,356
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
Garage
OK,
I was able to divide the PDF into 4 parts so I could upload them as attachments.

I hope the above explanation and this PDF helps.

This system completely eliminated the oil woes I had, which you are now experiencing.
On top of that, you have complicated the situation by venting to atmosphere.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Powell PCV Oil Seperator Part 1.pdf (62.2 KB, 28 views)
File Type: pdf Powell PCV Oil Seperator Part 2.pdf (918.8 KB, 13 views)
File Type: pdf Powell PCV Oil Seperator Part 3.pdf (1,017.2 KB, 10 views)
File Type: pdf Powell PCV Oil Seperator Part 4.pdf (943.9 KB, 11 views)

LUSIFER is Sold!
say hello to
RYUK

I'm not short, I'm concentrated AWESOME
Elff is offline  
post #22 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-15-2018, 01:10 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member

 
skersfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Near Idyllwild, California
Posts: 4,970
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 775 Post(s)
Garage
Yea, I said yesterday that was not the answer when I saw oil dripping from the filter element.

I am not able to find anywhere to buy the PCV control module. Any idea where they are available. Does not seem to be a working web site.
skersfan is offline  
post #23 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-15-2018, 05:20 PM
Super Moderator
 
Robotech's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 10,539
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1646 Post(s)
Garage
And here my understanding was that line was just a crankcase vent. Looks like that solution Elff dumps the oil back into the pan through the dipstick. Is that correct? And should there be a check valve in this line? I don't remember seeing one in the stock setup...

As for the tune, we did find some parameters in the Engine Diagnostic section that hadn't been updated for the 3-bar MAPs and these are what are causing the SES lights (the parameters in the tune specifically relate to the codes the ECM is throwing). Hope to get the new tune for that installed tonight.

May just need to route that can like we Curtis had it the other day Sir. Not sure routing it to the intake is going to help.


V.A.L. (#1108)
2007 2.4 Base
MagnaFlow dual outlet, quad tip exhaust test car
**Sold**

Max (#1547)
2007 TURBO 2.4
Too much to list here. See my Garage for details.
Robotech is offline  
post #24 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-15-2018, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member

 
skersfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Near Idyllwild, California
Posts: 4,970
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 775 Post(s)
Garage
Today it is not leaking oil from the filter, the car seems to run near normal today, and has not gotten hotter than 201. I am having the bung welded on the intake tube. I have to for it to be similar to the stock system. We can remove the oil catch can from the system that way. I want that as close to stock as I can get it. The tube will be welded tomorrow and should have it back late afternoon.
skersfan is offline  
post #25 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-16-2018, 10:21 AM
Super Moderator
 
Robotech's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 10,539
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1646 Post(s)
Garage
We loaded a new tune today with the Diagnostic settings for the MAP sensor codes updated for the 3-bar MAPs. All is well with those codes. Still throwing two codes after the retune. P2187 is for bank 1 lean at idle yet the LTFTs are at 0.0 and the STFTs are at 0.0 to -0.8. Idled the car for over 20 minutes after the CEL came on for the two remaining codes and the trims never waivered.

I shot the log over to Dave Gilbert with PAW and he mentioned that the P2187 code is a post Catalytic Converter code. I haven't talked to Skersfan yet this morning (I am up early) but from what Dave has mentioned, that can be triggered by an exhaust leak. We believe Skersfan has an exhaust leak as he says when the code comes on the sound of the exhaust changes and he can smell exhaust in the car. that would explain this code.

The other code is for a brake/cruise control disable switch we believe may be getting thrown by some funky brake wiring that was done for his third brake light, Opel GT fog light, and light bar. Tune looks real good though and we keep moving one step closer to getting it right.

Maybe soon I can start trying to figure out why one minute my car wants to run at 18:1 AFR when I try to accelerate and get into boost and the next minute she is behaving like she should and showing 11:1 AFR and running like a rapped ape. LOL That is after I deal with my Fiancé's mechanical bypass valve error code... These are the times I wish my cars weren't modified. LOL


V.A.L. (#1108)
2007 2.4 Base
MagnaFlow dual outlet, quad tip exhaust test car
**Sold**

Max (#1547)
2007 TURBO 2.4
Too much to list here. See my Garage for details.
Robotech is offline  
post #26 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-16-2018, 03:58 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member

 
skersfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Near Idyllwild, California
Posts: 4,970
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 775 Post(s)
Garage
Curtis tightend up the exhaust yesterday before we did the run. He says there isn't anything behind the cat to throw a code. He is looking at it again today. Car is running well enough to drive this weekend I think. Just don't want to damage it.

Thanks to Dave at Pwerks for all the help and Robot went well beyond last night and this morning. I truly think we are getting closer.

Thankis to Elf for his input, I am sure that helped us figure some things out.
skersfan is offline  
post #27 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-16-2018, 04:05 PM
Member
 
Elff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Keebler, PA
Posts: 4,356
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
Garage
Glad to be of help.

FYI, Powell's website is
Powell Race Parts.com
Contact information is
Contact Us :: Powell Race Parts.com


LUSIFER is Sold!
say hello to
RYUK

I'm not short, I'm concentrated AWESOME
Elff is offline  
post #28 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-16-2018, 04:09 PM
Member
 
Elff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Keebler, PA
Posts: 4,356
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
Garage
As far as the exhaust, If you have couplers on the exhaust, they should show some soot if they are leaking.
you could just weld everything post cat into 1 piece.

LUSIFER is Sold!
say hello to
RYUK

I'm not short, I'm concentrated AWESOME
Elff is offline  
post #29 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-16-2018, 05:51 PM
Super Moderator
 
Robotech's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 10,539
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1646 Post(s)
Garage
I like the weld idea. LOL I think I may have a leak of some sort too but mine is before the O2s...and after the MAF....somewhere in that small area. LOL

The other thing is skersfan, you have a high flow on that don't you? That could be causing it too.


V.A.L. (#1108)
2007 2.4 Base
MagnaFlow dual outlet, quad tip exhaust test car
**Sold**

Max (#1547)
2007 TURBO 2.4
Too much to list here. See my Garage for details.
Robotech is offline  
post #30 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-16-2018, 11:30 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member

 
skersfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Near Idyllwild, California
Posts: 4,970
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 775 Post(s)
Garage
You know it has a high flow cat as I came over to help you put yours own, remember the little twist we had to do to get it in and out.

I assumed Dave looked at it when it was there in Colorado and knew what it was. But remembering it now who knows.

It would seem to me that when tuning you would want to know everything about the car. I had to fill out a bunch of paper work to get the Mallett tuned at CBM. They wanted to know everything about the car

The light came on again this evening. The car did not run as well tonight as it did yesterday. Popping at about 56-5700 where the night before it went to 6-to 6200 and only popped on shifting. It is an automatic.

I wonder if people that have straight pipes have the same problem. Or do most just let the light be on and not worry about it. I hate having any lights on in any car.

I drove it for awhile and went back to the shop, no oil in the line from the catch can. No indication that there had been. I can take the catch can out and route it to the new barb welded in to eliminate it.

But the back of the car is just covered with soot, worse than it ever has been. Just do not get it.

I think I am going to drive it this week end, and put it back to stock afterwards. I appreciate all the help from everyone, but to me I have destroyed a perfect car, that I truly enjoyed driving. I am now worried about it everytime I step down on the gas. Not worth the 10 months of my life that I have put in to it. I honestly will never trust the car. I know we have done a lot of damage to it. I have put more miles on it in the last 3 months than I have in two years. Almost all at WOT runs.

I really have no idea how much money I have in this project, not counting the hours and hours of my time, Curtis's time and Robo's.

What I really worry about is if I take everything off and go back to stock, will I have the same problems because of what I have done. Any ideas? Really nothing to do but laugh about it.

The other half just shook her head at me this eveing. She said I know you hate what is going on with this car, and how much you love it. Why do you do this to the car and yourself. I know everytime you come in from messing with your trains, you are smiling I think you should just concentrate on your trains and enjoy life. Women are definetely the smarter ones. lol
skersfan is offline  
Reply

  Saturn Sky Forums: Saturn Sky Forum > Saturn Sky Discussion > Saturn Sky Performance Discussion

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Saturn Sky Forums: Saturn Sky Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome