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post #31 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-16-2018, 11:47 PM Thread Starter
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I called and sent an email to Powell. No response as of this date. I don't really think that is the problem, but was willing to try it. I am not sure anymore, I think I have wasted enough money and time on this project, but do appreciate the info Elf.

I know my limits, and they were not what I have done. I expected it to be pretty much plug and play. I have a great mechanic, Robo is pretty bright guy that understands this stuff. Neither really have a clue of how to fix it, or by now I think it would have been. Why it is so random from one day to another really bugs me. Temps have been about the same, around 70 degrees. Low humidity. I am not a car mechanic, computer genious, but have common sense normally. This just has not made sense since day one.

We did find one entry online with the same problems, but no fix and no further postings.
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post #32 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-17-2018, 02:57 AM Thread Starter
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Elf,

The oil dripping from the filter, seemed to be a random thing. Just like everything else with this car now.

Off the wall here I know, but a little more information. I have a Norm's light bar on the car. Ever since we put it on I have had brake switch/cruise control code. This also follows the same random set up as what happens with the car. Sometimes the cruise works, sometimes it will not turn on. I know they are unrelated, but something is going on to cause this. Are both codes coming from the ECM. I assumed the BCM for the cruise and brake switch.

The car in four years of operation never had check engine light, no oil in the charge tubes. It was absolutely perfect in operation other than when we put a stereo in the car and had a few battery issues, but got them fixed two years ago. Any chance the miss wiring of the plug and play cables for the three bar sensor could have shorted something in either and it having a negative affect on the car. I know it is a stupid question, but I am down to looking for a needle in a hay stack it appears to me.
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post #33 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-17-2018, 09:04 AM
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I appreciate all the help from everyone, but to me I have destroyed a perfect car
I wouldn't say you destroyed the car as much as I'd say that you haven't been able to find the issue that is clearly driving you crazy . I guess it's the ole needle in a haystack type of situation, and trying to find someone with a big enough magnet to find it. Of course being a perfectionist makes it twice as hard for you. As my mechanic always says it has to be an electrical or a mechanical issue, then again he comes from the analog age.
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post #34 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-17-2018, 10:05 AM
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What brand Hi-Flow Cat?

The Solo one I had fit perfectly.
I had to junk the custom one that came with my EFR kit because it clogged and was leaking

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post #35 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-17-2018, 10:08 AM
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You literally sound exactly like my wife and I discussing Lucy after the engine build and EFR kit.

50% Hate the Sky
50% Loved it for the small times it worked

I chased issues on that work for years.

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post #36 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-17-2018, 10:57 AM
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You know it has a high flow cat as I came over to help you put yours own, remember the little twist we had to do to get it in and out.

I assumed Dave looked at it when it was there in Colorado and knew what it was. But remembering it now who knows.

It would seem to me that when tuning you would want to know everything about the car. I had to fill out a bunch of paper work to get the Mallett tuned at CBM. They wanted to know everything about the car
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I called and sent an email to Powell. No response as of this date. I don't really think that is the problem, but was willing to try it. I am not sure anymore, I think I have wasted enough money and time on this project, but do appreciate the info Elf.

I know my limits, and they were not what I have done. I expected it to be pretty much plug and play. I have a great mechanic, Robo is pretty bright guy that understands this stuff. Neither really have a clue of how to fix it, or by now I think it would have been. Why it is so random from one day to another really bugs me. Temps have been about the same, around 70 degrees. Low humidity. I am not a car mechanic, computer genious, but have common sense normally. This just has not made sense since day one.

We did find one entry online with the same problems, but no fix and no further postings.
Skersfan, when it comes to this stuff it's not an exact science. Some items you HAVE to know are on the car and some you don't. For instance, on my car when I went from stock injectors to 60# injectors, the tuner HAD to know that because there are tables in the tune that the ECM uses to calculate fueling and how the injectors flow is one of them. That table HAS to be changed. Your Cat, on the other hand, is not such an item. The data from the log as to how the air flows through the car is an effect of having a high flow cat. Now some things, like your turbo, don't have a specific table but a tuner should know about it since if he is expecting a stock turbo he may be surprised at the air flow numbers and wonder why they are so far out of spec for a stock turbo.

Remember, we are tuning. We call this tuning for a reason. Expecting us to know EXACTLY what needs to be changed or what is causing a certain problem is like expecting to pick up a guitar and start turning the tuning knobs and have the guitar play perfect immediately. What works for one car may not work on another.

Also, you have changed a lot with that larger turbo...not just adding it, but everything that was touched to put it on the car. Something is different than it was before and that's what we're looking for in that whole system. It's not simple.

Ideally, I would be closer and I could have the car for a few days, drive it, scan it when it acts up, and repeat. I'm driving my fiancÚ's car to work today because she is complaining of radio issues but if I'm not there and able to scan when the issues come up, I know nothing.

Here are some things I can tell you:

The P2187 code (pretty sure it's P2187...the last number is the only one I'm unsure of right now) Bank 1 Lean at Idle seems to be a downstream O2 code. While I've never seen it before, the LNF ECM is a bit different than what I'm use to. Dave Gilbert is the one who told me it's a downstream O2 Issue. What makes me comfortable with this is that I have gotten a similar code with my car. The difference is when MINE did it, the fuel trims were WAY positive. This means the ECM was adding a ton of fuel and the trims being that far off is what tripped the code. Once I got the fuel trims in order, the code didn't come back. YOUR fuel trims though are absolutely perfect. I've NEVER...not even on my Grand Prix which was tuned by a guy who wrote the programming on the ECM for GM...seen trims as good as yours. If the trims were +18 or higher, yea...totally would know why that code is being thrown...but they're not. Since the trims are the result of readings from the upstream O2...and the only sensors that tell the ECM whether or not the results of it's calculations are lean, rich, or right on are the O2 sensors, it stands to reason that a "Bank 1 lean at idle" code with a perfect set of fuel trims could only be caused by a reading at the down stream O2 sensor.

The soot is typical in a Direct Injected car. The back of Jamie's Veloster I'm driving today soots up CONSTANTLY and if you drive behind her when she gets on the gas hard, you can see the black smoke puff out of the tail pipes. In the Veloster world, this is totally common and accepted. In the Sky Redline / Solstice GXP world, no one has ever (that I've read...and maybe someone who sees this has experienced it) reported that this happens when you tune them for maximum performance. So part of me says "this is normal for DI" and part of me says "but I've never heard of it on this platform".

You can take it back to stock but considering we don't know what is directly causing these issues, you may make the matter worse or you may fix it and never know you fixed it.

Elff has a very valid point. Once you start down this road you don't have a car that is forgettably reliable as a stock OEM vehicle. Every tick, every rattle, every pop you're going to wonder if it is because you changed something. You're going to wonder if it is because something is going wrong. The last thing you usually chalk it up to is that "you changed the car, it's going to change it's everyday behavior" and that's okay because you're erring on the side of caution. However, when you change the car, you change the car and you may have new "traits" it didn't have before. Or it may not. Every car reacts differently to changes.

I can come out again and scan it as it is. We can scan it this weekend and see what it is doing. The scan may show why it's popping in the area it is or it may be something it learns out like the hard shifting when we first uploaded the tune. It may be learning into this behavior and the scan can show us what needs to be changed. Or it may not.

I'll be the first to tell you I'm no expert in all this but I also have done stuff like this for a while and have experienced what you're going through. I know how frustrated you are and believe me, the reason I am working so hard on this is I hate to see my friend not enjoy his car and be as frustrated as you are.
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post #37 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-17-2018, 03:12 PM
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You might have a bad or dirty O2 sensor.
If the AFR was off and the car was dumping extra fuel to try and compensate for a leak you may have sootes up the last O2 sensor.

If it can be scanned while its running poorly, that would be the best

I am curious as to what parameters are being logging via HPT.

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post #38 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-17-2018, 04:02 PM
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You might have a bad or dirty O2 sensor.
If the AFR was off and the car was dumping extra fuel to try and compensate for a leak you may have sootes up the last O2 sensor.

If it can be scanned while its running poorly, that would be the best

I am curious as to what parameters are being logging via HPT.
Might be something to try...especially that rear O2. @skersfan, you might want to have Curtis pull those and give them a quick cleaning with some sensor safe Throttle Body cleaner or MAF cleaner.

I want to scan it when it's doing this stuff...that's on the agenda. Always is but seems like it's on its best behavior when I'm there....typical. LOL

I can get the list of them but there are quite a few.


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post #39 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-17-2018, 10:03 PM Thread Starter
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I have a Solo High Flow cat, have had for nearly four years. Never a code. I did the intercooler 2 years ago, never a code. Did the trifecta tune budget and upgrade never a code. Charge tubes, GMPP CAI and never a code. Now it won't run 20 minutes without throwing a code. So going back to what I had seems the logical thing to me. I never worried about the car when driving it, never concerned what might happen to the engine if I stepped down the throttle. Never worried about the transmission doing goofy things. Never heard the car back fire a single time in 4 years. Never had exhaust flood the car like it has the last few weeks. It has never had soot all over the back of the car in four years of driving it. That only started during the tuning of it. I am sure there was some but nothing like it is now. But again that is just like the oil dripping or the redline changing. It does it when it wants to. The other day there wasn't anything on the back fo the car. Last night you could actually measure the size fo the crap that was coming out of it.

Like I said it is above my ability to deal with. I have no idea what is wrong, and I can't fix it. I can't go thru that. It drives me crazy. It is not enjoyable, it is more of a dread than it is anything. I don't want to drive it this weekend, I don't know that I ever want to drive what I have now again. I want dependable, does what it is supposed to. When it doesn't I want to take it to the shop and have the mechanic fix it. I don't want a 10 month project to make the car do what I was lead to believe it would do. It isn't fun for me. That is what the car is about for me. I don't need it for transportation. I don't need the headaches it has caused. I take the blame for it. I made the choice to do it. No one twisted my arm. But if it isn't fixed this weekend. Monday it comes off and goes in the trash, plain and simple. Will most likely build or buy a new engine and besure it is perfect before it goes in. I will put the cat back on, the intercooler will stay, the charge tubes and the CAI. Will order another canned tune from Trifecta and be done with it. In my mind I have destroyed the vehicle. It may not blow up this weekend, or next, but the life of the car/engine has been damaged by what I have been doing to it the last few months.

I had a similar experience with my FJ Cruiser and a long travel set up. Nothing but codes, terrible driving, dangerous reactions to corners. Pulled the long travel off and never saw a problem again. I drove for the manufacturer that made it. A huge mistake, messed with it for three years. Never fixed. Not wasting that much time on this one. Life is too short and I am sick of the car, want it to run right or it is gone.

Last edited by skersfan; 10-17-2018 at 10:05 PM.
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post #40 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-18-2018, 07:43 AM
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Do yourself a favor, take a break from the car. Be it a week or a couple months. Then before touching it, search for someone in your area that is a master GM mechanic (not a trainee or a tech) but a true certified GM master mechanic. I'd also search for a certified master tuner, though I don't know if such an occupation exists. There has to be someone in your area that is an expert in turbos & tunes, find them!

The point I'm trying to make is that it is never a good idea to make a decision about something when you are frustrated. Like I said, take a break from the car, enjoy life, and then tackle it at a later date. Meanwhile seek the help of an expert one last time. Hang in there.
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post #41 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-18-2018, 02:25 PM
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Do yourself a favor, take a break from the car. Be it a week or a couple months. Then before touching it, search for someone in your area that is a master GM mechanic (not a trainee or a tech) but a true certified GM master mechanic. I'd also search for a certified master tuner, though I don't know if such an occupation exists. There has to be someone in your area that is an expert in turbos & tunes, find them!

The point I'm trying to make is that it is never a good idea to make a decision about something when you are frustrated. Like I said, take a break from the car, enjoy life, and then tackle it at a later date. Meanwhile seek the help of an expert one last time. Hang in there.
Dave Gilbert from PAW is working on the tune. Don't know who else may know more about these cars than him. Dave from DDM had issues trying to tune it and recommended Gilbert. Pretty sure no one local will have more knowledge on this platform than one of those two.

At this point I don't know what else to say to you Skersfan.


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post #42 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-19-2018, 01:00 AM Thread Starter
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Curtis said what ever was done last is really wrong. The car looks like a diesel, 44th Sky's comment.

I took off a couple months away from it already.

The problem I have is this week is my annual run. I host and sponsor and lead. A 250 mile trip thru the mountains of the Inland Empire. I think, and have been told that is by far the best Kappa run in SoCal. We have a great time and I don't want to cancel out on people that have showed up from Northern California, Utah and Arizona. I am over a barrel with it right now.

I think it is going to be a problem on the run, may need to go back to the previous tune, as this one just seems wrong. I have removed the extender and cleaned the rear O2 sensor. It was dirty, but not excessive according Curtis. He says it will not rev above 4400 RPM's now. I did not drive it today, but will be messing with it tomorrow. I think we need to look at it tomorrow if possible Robo. I have two Dr.'s appointments tomorrow afternoon. The last one at 4pm. If you can come out and check it out I would really appreciate it. I am extremely worried about it to be honest.

I called CBM, considered a world leader ins LS engines and 2.4 and 2.0 engines. They won't touch it.

I don't want a tuned monster. I just want a smooth running car. I suppose I could find someone to look at it, but I think Dave a Performance Auto Werks knows his stuff. It is something we are missing.
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post #43 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-19-2018, 02:14 AM Thread Starter
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ChopTop,

If you only knew the whole story, it goes on for page after page after page. We are just mentioning a few of the problems that have occurred recently.

Ironic is that I had one that was too fast and scared the crap out of me, now I have one that I have no idea what it is going to do, and seems to change on its own.

I am frustrated no question. But common sense tells me that after 3-4 months of every other day working on it, trying everything imaginable, with really nothing solid to look at as accomplished. Time to quit, know when you are beaten and understand it. I have totally lost interest in the car, I am only trying to get it to run thru this weekend because of the run. I will never trust the car to go anywhere, so the fun of the car is gone.

I realized that the other day, this car had never been to a car wash, never more than a gallon of water used to wash. It was always immaculent. Perfect in appearance even after being caught in a flash flood.
It was my baby. It was never left outside, always covered in the shop. The car has not been washed since the National. No interest in it. Will put it in storage most likely for the rest of the year, build a stock engine with better pistons, not faster, just a stornger engine. Put it back to stock and forget this crap.

I have trains to run and scenery to build. Way more fun and no where near as frustrating.

This is my last post on this, I have burdened others over this. I am sorry.
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post #44 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-19-2018, 11:49 AM
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No apologies sir. This is what forums like this are for. The is EXACTLY what forums like this are for. Get your laptop, have your charger handy, and I'll be over tonight. Text me with what time works best for you. I want this right for tomorrow. We can discuss where to go from here more tonight.


V.A.L. (#1108)
2007 2.4 Base
MagnaFlow dual outlet, quad tip exhaust test car
**Sold**

Max (#1547)
2007 TURBO 2.4
Too much to list here. See my Garage for details.
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post #45 of 72 (permalink) Old 10-19-2018, 01:11 PM
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Bob, any chance you can switch to SKYTLES for this coming weekend instead of your baby? Dont want to see you stressing over these issues during this run and having the weekend spoiled for your enjoyment. I see based on this thread that you all are trying so hard to get it ready for this coming Palm Springs weekend but its getting so close to the wire now. Hopefully see you tomorrow morning where I will lay on my usual level of verbal abuse to try and take you mind off this

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