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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-28-2014, 06:57 AM Thread Starter
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My EFR almost complete

This has been a very long and drawn out project for me. I started on this journey very early last year. I kept going back and forth between the 2871 and the EFR 6758. After what felt like a lifetime of research, I chose the EFR. I want to thank you guys first for all of your hard work and very informative posts. I wouldn't have even considered this project if I wasn't able to read the wealth of information that many of you have been so generous to share. This was my first turbo build. It's still not tuned yet so I can't share my experience with how it runs yet. It's drivable with no noticeable issues though. Still waiting on Dave at Performance Auto Werks to get my tune. The exhaust manifold was a cast style from Werks with a T25 flange. Looked a lot like the Garrett ones that I've only seen pictures of. I originally wanted the tubular manifold that Werks and GMtech teamed up on but Werks was no longer doing business with them when I placed my order for the manifold. All the EFR and related install stuff was ordered directly from Werks. It just took me well over a year to get all of the money together and all of the parts actually in my hand. I'm running a catless down pipe with a v-band clamp into Magnaflow exhaust that was already on the car when I bought it. I put the Hahn intercooler and DDM pipes on the car when I first got it about 2 years ago. I didn't take any pictures of the actual building process as there really wasn't too much to it besides me fighting with the wastegate actuator and bracket for about 10 hours. That was the only real pita of the whole deal. I had to modify the actuator bracket in order to get the oil drain positioned down like its supposed to be and to get the actuator to actually fit without hitting the frame. I previously had Trifecta on the car and now have HP Tuners. I'm new to this software so I'm having Werks tune the car so I don't go blowing it up. I'm sure I'll learn how to use this software to its potential eventually. I'm currently working on getting some pictures up for you guys. I also recently put these wheels on. They're a staggered set up 19x8.5 up front and 19x9.5 in the back. I'm also waiting on some Norm's side skirts that should be here any day now. My EFR almost complete-image.jpg
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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-28-2014, 11:28 AM Thread Starter
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The heat shield and engine cover do still fit. I just left them off for now in order to keep a close eye on everything. Here are a few pics-
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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-28-2014, 11:43 AM
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This has been a very long and drawn out project for me. I started on this journey very early last year. I kept going back and forth between the 2871 and the EFR 6758. After what felt like a lifetime of research, I chose the EFR. I want to thank you guys first for all of your hard work and very informative posts. I wouldn't have even considered this project if I wasn't able to read the wealth of information that many of you have been so generous to share. This was my first turbo build. It's still not tuned yet so I can't share my experience with how it runs yet. It's drivable with no noticeable issues though. Still waiting on Dave at Performance Auto Werks to get my tune. The exhaust manifold was a cast style from Werks with a T25 flange. Looked a lot like the Garrett ones that I've only seen pictures of. I originally wanted the tubular manifold that Werks and GMtech teamed up on but Werks was no longer doing business with them when I placed my order for the manifold. All the EFR and related install stuff was ordered directly from Werks. It just took me well over a year to get all of the money together and all of the parts actually in my hand. I'm running a catless down pipe with a v-band clamp into Magnaflow exhaust that was already on the car when I bought it. I put the Hahn intercooler and DDM pipes on the car when I first got it about 2 years ago. I didn't take any pictures of the actual building process as there really wasn't too much to it besides me fighting with the wastegate actuator and bracket for about 10 hours. That was the only real pita of the whole deal. I had to modify the actuator bracket in order to get the oil drain positioned down like its supposed to be and to get the actuator to actually fit without hitting the frame. I previously had Trifecta on the car and now have HP Tuners. I'm new to this software so I'm having Werks tune the car so I don't go blowing it up. I'm sure I'll learn how to use this software to its potential eventually. I'm currently working on getting some pictures up for you guys. I also recently put these wheels on. They're a staggered set up 19x8.5 up front and 19x9.5 in the back. I'm also waiting on some Norm's side skirts that should be here any day now. Attachment 52538

You will be very happy that you did the EFR once you get it tuned and do some regular driving. Let us know your impressions about the behavior once you get some seat time on it. Are you still stock internals? If so, my suggestion would be not to go for maximum power because an EFR can easily be tuned to over stress the stock engine. You will have so much pull over such a large rpm range that if you are like me, you won't need the full potential of that turbo. Also I would suggest to keep your max rpm in the mid 6's, especially if you have the older valve train components. Higher rpms are actually more stressful on engine internals than higher combustion pressures, however you have to be very careful not to get detonation which is very hard on pistons.
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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-28-2014, 12:36 PM Thread Starter
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I can't wait to get some seat time. The engine is on stock internals and only has 40000 miles. It's a 2008 so I think the valve train issues were addressed after 2007. Another reason I went with the EFR is that I won't be maxing it out and that'll lower the charge temps which will be kinder on my rings. Dave at Werks is supposed to be setting the redline at 6500 and he's tuned a bunch of EFR's with a lot of success from everything I've researched. I thought about doing the valve springs but I feel like I'm going to get all I want out of it without having to rev it that high. My main goal in the beginning was to get around 400 at the rear wheels on pump gas and I've been told by many that it shouldn't be a problem. This was built for pure fun, I won't be at the drag strip or on any tracks with it. I just wanted something to put a smile on my face and surprise a few unsuspecting cars.
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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-28-2014, 03:05 PM
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Dave at Werks is supposed to be setting the redline at 6500 and he's tuned a bunch of EFR's with a lot of success from everything I've researched.
Many lolz there! Hate to tell you this but Dave hasn't tuned a single EFR/LNF himself.
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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-28-2014, 03:54 PM
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I can't wait to get some seat time. The engine is on stock internals and only has 40000 miles. It's a 2008 so I think the valve train issues were addressed after 2007. Another reason I went with the EFR is that I won't be maxing it out and that'll lower the charge temps which will be kinder on my rings. Dave at Werks is supposed to be setting the redline at 6500 and he's tuned a bunch of EFR's with a lot of success from everything I've researched. I thought about doing the valve springs but I feel like I'm going to get all I want out of it without having to rev it that high. My main goal in the beginning was to get around 400 at the rear wheels on pump gas and I've been told by many that it shouldn't be a problem. This was built for pure fun, I won't be at the drag strip or on any tracks with it. I just wanted something to put a smile on my face and surprise a few unsuspecting cars.
I agree with you on the lower temps to protect the piston top and top ring land. Dave tuned my EFR upgrade remotely with HP tuner and we bounced about 10 logs and new tunes back and forth before he and I were happy. He concentrated on fueling at first before we worked on boost. I can only get 91 octane so I have less timing than most guys. I really insisted to be conservative on timing so it would never detonate. He did great, as I've never seen knock retard kick in. Also I'm at 6,000 feet, and I was the first he had tuned "at elevation", so it took him a while to find the table to work with to hold boost. At first the boost started dropping at about 5300 and kept going down to 6500. Now it holds perfectly. I'm glad to hear you will also limit your rpm to 6500. Believe me, you will have plenty of fun and pull-----I know I do, so you won't miss that extra 1000 rpm. Mine is also just a street driver which gives me a real perma-smile each time I give it a squirt now.
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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-28-2014, 07:23 PM Thread Starter
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Many lolz there! Hate to tell you this but Dave hasn't tuned a single EFR/LNF himself.
I've done a bunch of research on this and I'm fully aware that his tunes are basically from you and that you taught him a lot of what he knows about these cars. I know you know your stuff and that you've discovered way more since then and I would be more than happy if you would tune it. I just didn't want to bother you since I read on HP Tuners that you stay really busy.
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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-28-2014, 08:29 PM
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Legit reason. Gmtech is a busy man. If you do get a tune from him you will be one of a few and lucky. He's the only one I've seen that got 460+ out of the EFR. All others I've seen 400-420.

2007 Sky Redline: DDMWorks V8 Conversion- LS376 525hp 6.2L, TR6060 6-speed, Custom Magnaflow exhaust, DDMWorks Backbone brace, DDMWorks Pro Beam, BC Coilovers, Wilwood(Front)BBK, Norms Full Hardtop and Rear facia. Tuned on LS2Edit
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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-29-2014, 10:53 AM
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Legit reason. Gmtech is a busy man. If you do get a tune from him you will be one of a few and lucky. He's the only one I've seen that got 460+ out of the EFR. All others I've seen 400-420.
You won't go wrong using Dave at Werks, I can speak from experience. It is true that John (GMtech) knows a great deal about our LNF engines and how to get the most out of them, but by no means is he the only one out there. John used to speak very highly about Dave and Performance Autowerks,
as well as Stainless. Back when he first started using an EFR and worked with them to develope hardware to use the EFR on our LNF's, he loved them. Something happened over time, and he now thinks they are stupid and unreliable businesses. It's a shame he has taken such a stance because he has a lot to offer our community, however the negative way he talks these days takes credibility from him as well. There is actually more to the story behind these manifold failures which I don't think has ever come out on the Kappa forums. Also his high performance numbers came on e47 I believe, which most of us don't, or don't want to use, and then switched his attention to V8's in Kappas as the best thing ever.

Stick with Werks-----Dave will do a great tune.
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You won't go wrong using Dave at Werks, I can speak from experience. It is true that John (GMtech) knows a great deal about our LNF engines and how to get the most out of them, but by no means is he the only one out there. John used to speak very highly about Dave and Performance Autowerks,
as well as Stainless. Back when he first started using an EFR and worked with them to develope hardware to use the EFR on our LNF's, he loved them. Something happened over time, and he now thinks they are stupid and unreliable businesses. It's a shame he has taken such a stance because he has a lot to offer our community, however the negative way he talks these days takes credibility from him as well. There is actually more to the story behind these manifold failures which I don't think has ever come out on the Kappa forums. Also his high performance numbers came on e47 I believe, which most of us don't, or don't want to use, and then switched his attention to V8's in Kappas as the best thing ever.

Stick with Werks-----Dave will do a great tune.
I appreciate everything ALL of you guys have said here, especially Tommy and Fortunato. I'm not perfect in any way, but I am passionate about cars and I try to help as much as I can. I truly believe what anyone knows is worthless unless they share that knowledge with others. I haven't gone to church in 30 years, but there is one verse I always liked... It's something like "Give a man a fish and you feed him for one day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for life". I'm not into giving "fish" away but I am into helping people learn how to get what they need on their own.

Just to clear up something here... I NEVER said Dave or Werks were "stupid". They are NOT stupid. I also never said that V/8's in Kappas were the "best thing ever". It's the best thing ever FOR ME, and even then, at great expense. V/8 swaps are not for everyone. The LNF is still one of the most impressive engines I've ever worked on and an LNF Kappa is a [email protected] bitchin car no matter what the tune or mod level.

As far as Dave and Werks... My head has been bloody enough trying to get the truth out about many situations I've been involved with them. He had me banned from one Kappa forum and the admin on another Kappa forum [email protected] near succeeded in squelching what I was trying to say over there too. To say that there's more to the story on the manifold situation in particular is a HUGE understatement. It's called lies, slander and horrible business practices. BTW, Chris Stepp and Stainless Headers is one of the most honest and reputable companies I've ever worked with. Please don't throw them in any of this because they did ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong.

I know when it's time to stop beating your head against the wall and walk away though. Sometimes you just need to let people hang themselves. The part about that I don't like though is people are still getting hurt. I gotta tell you guys about something has been bugging me for weeks, and it really has nothing to do with me. I don't even know the person involved, but it's still been weighing very heavily on me ever since I heard about it.

It's about Robert Ashby on the Solstice forum. I read about his build. I read how the money he's spending is HUGE to him. I read about how he's eating Top Ramen so he can have a V/8 put in his Solstice. (He was kinda kidding about that, but not really.) I read about how antsy he is and how he can't wait until the May 9th promised date to get his car. (Remember that date. It's already been moved ahead.) Here's just one of the things about his story that's been bugging me. Dave sold him 1000hp axles for his build. I know they aren't cheap. From the sounds of it, that's money Robert would have only spent if he really needed them. He doesn't. He ABSOLUTELY doesn't. Why? Well think about it. His motor will put out under 500 crank hp. His new T56 trans is rated at 400 or maybe 450hp. The driveshaft Werks is gonna put in is no doubt a steel unit probably good for at the most, 500ft/lbs trq. The rear diffs in these cars are good to around 500ft/lbs trq also, way less if you use sticky tires. (I know because we COMPLETELY BLEW the rear diff out of the Solstice GTS car on the start of a World Challenge race with my tune and the smaller EFR.) Guess what? The axles were fine. I've actually NEVER heard of a Kappa with broken axles. If someone has, let me know because it will be the first for me. And not "I heard about one", let's see pictures of broken axles.

So that's what I worry about. Some guy I don't know from Adam that is obviously careful with his money being sold something he doesn't need. Why should I care? I don't know, it's just how I am. The other part about the axles is I'm almost positive those axles are ones that Dave has had laying around for years and he even tried to sell them to me at one time. I'm NOT positive on that though, I could be totally wrong there. If that's the case, and he simply finally found someone that he could push them off on because Robert didn't know any better and trusted what Dave said, that's F'd up. And THAT'S why I beat my head against the wall.

Dave is a smart guy. Is he honest? In MY OPINION, no. The reason why I changed my opinion of Dave? I caught him in an outright lie online that he would not admit to or would right the wrong he caused. I DO NOT tolerate that kind of thing in ANYONE I work or deal with. If you don't have honesty, you have nothing.

I'm sorry I even sat here and typed this out. I really don't want to get back into this subject and I won't say anything else about it. It bothers me and I don't like it but there's nothing I can do about it. I will be keeping an eye on Robert's build though because he's a fellow member, a fellow Kappa owner and a fellow car enthusiast. I WILL NOT get involved with it any more than what I've said here, which was probably too much anyway. It just weighs heavily on me and bothers me though. I just can't fight other people's battles or worry about things I can't control. Sometimes people just have to learn things on their own, even if they get stung in the process. Unfortunately people come to forums like this to learn BEFORE they get stung. If nobody says anything or people that say something get banned, the information isn't there and the whole process fails.

That's all. Sorry to ramble and vent. Thanks for the words of support guys, I really do appreciate it. I'll talk with you about your build some other time Tommy.
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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-29-2014, 09:05 PM
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Tommy, welcome to the EFR club! Did your manifold look like this?

Coupe 993 5mt. GMPP CAI, GMPP tune+ HPT, 3 inch catlles ext. Dejon Ic and Piping, AME w-m, Garrett Manifold, EFR 6758, Werks springs, 5th injector E42, CCW Werks rims 285 front-305 rear PScup's. Zok cross member, sway bars, back bone, LVFB. 407 WHP.
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Garage
I can use all the help I can get & Thank You for caring about a fellow member. I only have a promise of "A couple of months" on the build so no real date was ever set, just my hoping the middle of the month.
I guess I screwed the pooch on the axles but it was something on my build list long before I ever talked with Dave. Just wanted a beefier look to the rear along with knowing it won't fail.
All true, the Ramen & I'm tapped, feeding the credit card to finish with a few details so I don't have to redo later. Im 64 & live on fixed income & managed to sell a few things Plus some family trust land to finance my roadster. I'm not going into debt or anything (yet,lol) & will recover fine in time.
Thanks for helping keep me on the right track, build wise, as I don't have much input around my area.
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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-30-2014, 09:19 PM
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I appreciate everything ALL of you guys have said here, especially Tommy and Fortunato. I'm not perfect in any way, but I am passionate about cars and I try to help as much as I can.

(snipped only because it was so long)

That's all. Sorry to ramble and vent. Thanks for the words of support guys, I really do appreciate it. I'll talk with you about your build some other time Tommy.
John,

Your passion is large part of why >I< appreciate all you share with us on here! (I can't speak for others but I’m pretty sure I aint alone.) Please, don’t change that for any reason!

Your passion is also a big part of why you end up censored. You just get so fired up that stuff escalates and the moderators feel the need to step in. IE, comments like "Dave hasn't tuned a single EFR/LNF himself."… sounds more spiteful than informative.

Regarding the axle... This is probably gonna sound elitist. I don't want it to, but it probably is. (shrugs)...

If you don’t have the knowledge or aren't willing or able to learn, then you're gonna be taken advantage of by businesses. It's just one of the downsides of capitalism (people putting $ over the welfare of others) IMO, It's a lighter version of natural selection. (that's the part I was worried about sounding elitist)

With the axle thing… I dunno man, not enough info. I don’t even know why such a thing would exist when no one has broken 600?? Maybe I missed it? Have the V8 monsters out there gone that crazy? I know it was an option to SC/TC the LS engines. I ohh’d and ahh’d over that for a few second on those web sites but I’ve not seen anyone that’s gone there.

Maybe the kid is leaving room for one hell of a NOS spray??? Too much F+F???

It seems to me like a case of the uninformed making bad choices without gathering their info first. It’s basic survival… the more impacting a decision, the more research you should put into it. I use the $ scale.
$ Lunch, buying an app, etc… (very little thought, what do I feel like…)
$$ Music, Movies, etc... (needs some thought to avoid overdoing it)
$$$ Monthly bills, household items, weekend trips... (gotta think even harder!)
$$$$+ Big ticket items, tires other big car upgrades, new plasma TV, etc: $$$$ (I will go back and forth for WEEKS on this stuff!)

It's the consumers responsibility to make these choices and weigh the consequences. You'd hope that merchants would try to help when they see people overspending (relative to what they NEED), but that kind of concern seems rare in our country/culture (spend spend SPEND!). I'd also like to think that shops have repeat business in mind if not an actual concern for the consumer. I understand it's not their job to teach every person about the technical aspects of their products. I feel that it IS their job to provide a product and answer questions where they can. If they can't answer questions, or are caught exaggerating or lying about their products then it's the consumers right to broadcast that experience. That way the merchants that do go above and beyond are promoted. Those that don't end up suffering. Business 101

As much as you've driven me crazy with some rants (I'm sure that's mutual, lol), it really pisses me off that issues with the headers were swept under the rug! Now it's no longer an option? That sucks hard core. The design was artful and functional at the same time. I dunno, haven't been followed recent devlopements on that saga.

Anyway, Sorry for the book Tommy...

Gratz on the build! If I was upgrading, EFR would be my choice as well. Looking forward to hearing your experiences with gettin her tuned and kickin ass!

Be a part of the solution!
and
DFTT
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In fond rememberance... We miss ya' Skip, but we'll never ferget ya! :)
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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-30-2014, 11:15 PM Thread Starter
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Tommy, welcome to the EFR club! Did your manifold look like this?
It looked similar, same flange but it didn't have that round piece as pictured. It looked a lot like the factory piece except for the flange.

I just started the tuning process with Dave. He recommended that I upgrade to the 3 bar map sensors so I now have those on the way. Unrelated to that, the car started running very inconsistent on mild acceleration and it started sounding like it wasn't making the same sounds as when I first drove it and something just felt off about it. It felt more mechanical than tune related. I felt like it had something to do with the wastegate and sure enough it did. I had the rod at a little too severe of and angle and it was binding causing it to stick in an open position. I fixed it and it is running way better now. I'm only one data log in and I have complete confidence in Dave. I can tell that this thing is going to keep a smile on my face when it's all said and done. When I did floor it for a data log, it felt quite impressive.
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Tommy, this is what I did.

Three years and it's still working great.

Coupe 993 5mt. GMPP CAI, GMPP tune+ HPT, 3 inch catlles ext. Dejon Ic and Piping, AME w-m, Garrett Manifold, EFR 6758, Werks springs, 5th injector E42, CCW Werks rims 285 front-305 rear PScup's. Zok cross member, sway bars, back bone, LVFB. 407 WHP.
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