Recomendation on Fuel Injectors - Saturn Sky Forums: Saturn Sky Forum
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-07-2019, 04:11 PM Thread Starter
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Recomendation on Fuel Injectors

Looking at upgrading fuel injectors from stock on the Base 2.4. Readying for turbo, but wont be doing the turbo for a while.
From what ive gathered from posts on here already, im looking at 60# injectors?

Im only looking to go to 300-350hp eventually anyways.

What are good options?
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-08-2019, 09:53 AM
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Are you going to get a kit from someone, or homebrew an installation? If you get a kit it will include injectors. For a homebrew check out Robotech's thread on his project.

Either way it seems pointless to change injectors now.

John
Lexington, KY
Sky NA 2007 Midnight Blue
Sky RL 2008 Carbon Flash - Naked
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-09-2019, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Draike13 View Post
Looking at upgrading fuel injectors from stock on the Base 2.4. Readying for turbo, but wont be doing the turbo for a while.
From what ive gathered from posts on here already, im looking at 60# injectors?

Im only looking to go to 300-350hp eventually anyways.

What are good options?
I'm with JohnWR at this point. If you are going turbo eventually, get them when you get your turbo. 60# injectors are WAY too big for the NA 2.4. 36# injectors are about right for the 2.4 NA and larger than stock. However, you'll want 40# injectors for a turbo bare minimum and 60# will be fine for the power level you're looking for so long as you have a good supporting fuel system like a high flow fuel pump.

Really though, I'd just wait for now. If you go with larger injectors, you MUST tune the car for them also so unless you're ready to buy a tune or know how to tune and have the equipment to do it, there isn't really a reason for doing them now.

Also, I'll have some 60# injectors for sale here next week. My new setup will use 80# injectors.


V.A.L. (#1108)
2007 2.4 Base
MagnaFlow dual outlet, quad tip exhaust test car
**Sold**

Max (#1547)
2007 TURBO 2.4
Too much to list here. See my Garage for details.
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 02:43 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Robotech View Post
I'm with JohnWR at this point. If you are going turbo eventually, get them when you get your turbo. 60# injectors are WAY too big for the NA 2.4. 36# injectors are about right for the 2.4 NA and larger than stock. However, you'll want 40# injectors for a turbo bare minimum and 60# will be fine for the power level you're looking for so long as you have a good supporting fuel system like a high flow fuel pump.

Really though, I'd just wait for now. If you go with larger injectors, you MUST tune the car for them also so unless you're ready to buy a tune or know how to tune and have the equipment to do it, there isn't really a reason for doing them now.

Also, I'll have some 60# injectors for sale here next week. My new setup will use 80# injectors.
Of course youre upgrading again. lol. awesome.
Ok, thanks for the advise guys.
Robo, can I ask you what tuning software and equipment you use? im looking into tuning but have no idea on what get or what to spend. Im looking to be able to tune myself, most options possible for cost. at least for a good basic tune till I can drive...a pretty good distance from me, to get to a dyno.

Recommendations?
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old Today, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Draike13 View Post
Of course youre upgrading again. lol. awesome.
Ok, thanks for the advise guys.
Robo, can I ask you what tuning software and equipment you use? im looking into tuning but have no idea on what get or what to spend. Im looking to be able to tune myself, most options possible for cost. at least for a good basic tune till I can drive...a pretty good distance from me, to get to a dyno.

Recommendations?
It...never...ends...LOL

I am using HP Tuners and have had RPM tune my car to this point. I've also done some tweaking here and there but I know just enough to be dangerous. PAW will be working on the initial tune for this setup then I have another tuner who's familiar with flex fuel GM conversions to get the GM flex fuel sensor and flex fuel tables working off that PAW tune.

HP Tuners works great on the LE5 and the ECMs they use. I've heard LNF guys having issues with the new HP Tuners software working on their ECMs though.

If you change injectors and go with larger ones, you MUST change the injector tables to allow the ECM to calculate proper injector pulse widths to hit the desired A/F ratio. If you go larger than 40lb injectors, the system will be harder to tune for idle on the stock fuel system. 60lbs injectors will work and will idle on the stock system but not nearly as smooth as it will with a boost referenced fuel system with a return line from the fuel regulator at the rail back to the tank. RPM is the only one I know that has a pretty much bolt on boost referenced system like this for our cars. It's not completely bolt in as you will need to modify your fuel pump unit in the tank to accept the return line IIRC. If you go that route, update your fuel pump too. You're there in the tank. This is what I've done with my system and with 60lb injectors idle is like OEM while fuel delivery from the 255lph pump keeps the fuel flowing no issues and only 70% duty cycle on the injectors (85-90% and your injectors are maxed out).

Not sure where 60lb injectors would be duty wise on a setup making 350 whp without using a high flow pump and modified fuel system. I'm sure they will work, but they will be far closer to maxed out than mine are.


V.A.L. (#1108)
2007 2.4 Base
MagnaFlow dual outlet, quad tip exhaust test car
**Sold**

Max (#1547)
2007 TURBO 2.4
Too much to list here. See my Garage for details.
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old Today, 12:49 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Robotech View Post
It...never...ends...LOL

I am using HP Tuners and have had RPM tune my car to this point. I've also done some tweaking here and there but I know just enough to be dangerous. PAW will be working on the initial tune for this setup then I have another tuner who's familiar with flex fuel GM conversions to get the GM flex fuel sensor and flex fuel tables working off that PAW tune.

HP Tuners works great on the LE5 and the ECMs they use. I've heard LNF guys having issues with the new HP Tuners software working on their ECMs though.

If you change injectors and go with larger ones, you MUST change the injector tables to allow the ECM to calculate proper injector pulse widths to hit the desired A/F ratio. If you go larger than 40lb injectors, the system will be harder to tune for idle on the stock fuel system. 60lbs injectors will work and will idle on the stock system but not nearly as smooth as it will with a boost referenced fuel system with a return line from the fuel regulator at the rail back to the tank. RPM is the only one I know that has a pretty much bolt on boost referenced system like this for our cars. It's not completely bolt in as you will need to modify your fuel pump unit in the tank to accept the return line IIRC. If you go that route, update your fuel pump too. You're there in the tank. This is what I've done with my system and with 60lb injectors idle is like OEM while fuel delivery from the 255lph pump keeps the fuel flowing no issues and only 70% duty cycle on the injectors (85-90% and your injectors are maxed out).

Not sure where 60lb injectors would be duty wise on a setup making 350 whp without using a high flow pump and modified fuel system. I'm sure they will work, but they will be far closer to maxed out than mine are.
Thanks for the info. Im going back and forth on buying parts slowly, starting now, and just slowly putting together a setup in my free time. or just saving up for the Hahn's stage 2 and taking a week off to get that installed and going right. lol

Both seem like viable options. Hahn's is "Probably" cheaper...but less interesting. and I know ill be customizing later because I cant leave anything alone.
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old Today, 01:34 PM
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Unless you find some absolutely ridiculously low prices on components I would not slowly buy the system piecemeal. In the time it takes to assemble the whole system a lot can change. Save the money over time, but buy it together.
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old Today, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnWR View Post
Unless you find some absolutely ridiculously low prices on components I would not slowly buy the system piecemeal. In the time it takes to assemble the whole system a lot can change. Save the money over time, but buy it together.
Agree with John on this one. I was lucky and had a complete LNF engine, intercooler, and charge piping donated to me for my build (Long story but thanks @Sky_Pilot and @skersfan). That saved me a ton of cash but I still dropped $1,100 on parts that donation didn't cover like injectors, cold side charge pipe, air intake, oil return line solution that DIDN'T require drilling the block, and tuning software credits.

If you aren't this lucky...and few are...I would save up for the Hahn kit (and also check out Performance Auto Werks as they have kits for the 2.4 also) considering your desired power level. At that point, you want to ask yourself what supporting mods might you need for that kit. What clutch do you have? (Stock LE5 clutch wore out on me at 260 whp after about a year.) What, if anything, are you going to do for your fuel system? (Larger injectors are included in the kit but I like to do overkill and went with a higher flowing pump and improved fuel rail/regulator) What are you doing for tuning? (Just let them tune it and be done in one shot or are you wanting to have the ability to tune more later if you decide to upgrade?) Do you want to monitor your Air Fuel ratio to know if it goes lean? Do you want to have something controlling your boost pressure with fail safe if something goes wrong?

These are things the basic kit may not accommodate and items that you can pick up piecemeal while saving for your kit.

With a 2.4 build, I would STRONGLY advise going with an electronic boost controller (the eBoost2 is what I run and, while not cheap, a very full featured controller) and a Wide Band O2 sensor and gauge. I run the AEM wide band and it works very well. Even has an output to connect it to my HP Tuners tuning hardware/software so I can data log it's reading with the rest of the OEM sensors. Tuners LOVE this as you are giving them accurate and real time Air/Fuel Ratio (AFR) readings in your data logs to help them dial in fueling. A clutch is probably also a must.

The other stuff, talk to whoever you're getting the kit from to see what they recommend to hit the power levels you're looking for. Some of it you may be able to get at a discount with the kit including the items mentioned above. Some you may be able to get after the kit but have more difficulty adding them after the fact than before. For instance, you'll need the clutch when you put the turbo on but you may not have the funds to do both at once. You would be better off putting the clutch on before the turbo but you could wait to do it after. However, wait too long and it will become a "I need this now because my clutch is out" upgrade versus "I need to put this in at some point in the near future" upgrade.

Like I always say when folks talk about these upgrades...make a plan. Figure out what your goal is (sounds like you've done that), figure out all that you need to get there (you've started to do that) then lay out a list and timetable of upgrades that makes the most sense in achieving your goal (you can start working on that once number two is done). This will save you the most money and most aggravation.

For me, it took a year to get all the parts together to do my "stage 1" build but I knew where I wanted to be eventually. I planned it out so that when I got to the point where I was ready to get to the final stage (what I'm doing now) the majority of the parts I used up to that point I could reuse...with some exceptions.

My Fuel system...totally reusable except injectors. Wide Band has been with me since the first weekend of my stage 1 build. So have the intake and charge pipes. Intercooler was going to be upgraded at some point anyway but the first one was free so no money wasted there. Clutch I could reuse if I wanted to but decided to not risk it and go with a new clutch of the exact same time but with the lightweight flywheel to increase the amount of power it can handle. I could have started with this though and been fine. Started with a mechanical boost controller but eventually found a deal on the eBoost2...wound up saving about $250 even when you include the price of Mechanical Controller. Exhaust manifold is still the same and the high flow cat I upgraded to from a stock LNF catted downpipe. I broke this into stages because I knew at some point I was going to have to build up the engine and head to get to where I wanted to be eventually but that was years away (4 to be exact) and I wanted some more power before then. That four years of fun cost me about $1000-1250 that I wouldn't have spent had I gone directly to the final solution.

So if you plan carefully, you will save money depending on your goals.


V.A.L. (#1108)
2007 2.4 Base
MagnaFlow dual outlet, quad tip exhaust test car
**Sold**

Max (#1547)
2007 TURBO 2.4
Too much to list here. See my Garage for details.

Last edited by Robotech; Today at 03:00 PM.
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