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post #16 of 117 (permalink) Old 06-28-2017, 09:01 PM
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Suggestions for locations are nice, but are fairly worthless unless they come from someone actually interested in organizing the event there.
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A very good comment, but in addition to someone interested in organizing the event, you need people who are capable of planning, presenting, and managing a good event. We've been lucky so far with the 12 annual events that have been done, and for the most part, been done very well.



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I am definitely interested in organizing it, and feel I did well with the small Kappa Kruise I held for about 7 years in August. Nice runs, car shows, Watkins Glen track time, fun at a large festival with concerts and hot-air balloons.

The only difference is the Kappa Kruise had 10 cars at most, with nationals being much larger. As you say... we need people, not a person. My post giving an idea for Central NY was basically a shout out looking for others that would want to jump on-board to help make a great event. I also started by saying I would be able to help if in the Adirondacks (which is not Central NY). Since the first post mentioned a rumor for the Adirondacks, I thought someone already offered to organize it there.

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post #17 of 117 (permalink) Old 06-29-2017, 05:03 PM Thread Starter
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My comment was not directed toward you, and the original mention of the Adirondacks came from a suggestion by one person that another person should organize one there.

I will lend whatever assistance I can from a distance. That may mainly be passing on what worked and what didn't for me (your situation will be somewhat different) and what I would change if I had a do-over.

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post #18 of 117 (permalink) Old 06-30-2017, 12:46 PM Thread Starter
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Regarding my comments about Lexington in 2019: I am making arrangements as a backstop to the possibility that 2019 will be a repeat of 2017 with no one willing to take on the challenge, but I would actually prefer that it be somewhere else. I am always looking for an excuse to return to Watkins Glen, for instance, and have never been to Muscle Shoals. I hope that I haven't discouraged others from investigating their area because there is a lot to be said for going to a different location each year.

There is still plenty of time for a group to explore options and make a proposal for 2019. The main time-critical activity is the reservation of meeting space, especially for the banquet. Places with seating for 300 are not thick upon the ground near where we want to be, and they tend to get reserved early. Even without a team in place, one interested person can make inquiries about space and make a non-binding reservation for it while the rest of the details are explored. Based on early practice and what we went through over the past year, January 2018 is a very workable deadline for making the decision about location.

Remember too that if convention is followed, 2020 is likely to be a Western event.

Druid made a pretty good list of "requirements", on the Sol forum, and I expanded on it:
1) Event facilities capable of handling up to 300 people
2) Multiple hotels in close proximity to maximize people's choices
3) Flexible hotel and event sit management that understand you are an amateur and will cater to a car group
4) Good roads with interesting destinations in close proximity to the main site
5) Easy access to those roads without a long trek down the highway or travel through a congested area
6) Food and relief facilities located in appropriate locations along the routes
7) Enough people to lead runs, run registration, organize activities, stage cars for runs, and set up things like the car show
8) If you are the main organizer, don't plan to do any of the runs. The go-to person has to be on site to answer questions and make decisions
9) Enough people close enough to drive all of the routes multiple times. Mapping can initially be done remotely, but testing has to be done in person, and every single edit has to be tested
?) All of the other little things that you won't know until you don't have them

And I will repeat my offer of assistance.

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post #19 of 117 (permalink) Old 06-30-2017, 02:05 PM
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Wish NASSAM would come to the SW! Colorado is a remote possibility for us in 2018. It's a 12 hour drive each way. Getting older and that would be a 2 day drive for us so not sure we can make it. Would love see it come to southern California, Arizona or New Mexico. Lots of great country in each.

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post #20 of 117 (permalink) Old 06-30-2017, 04:45 PM
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Personal opinion on this, but have been involved with doing the FJ Summit National for 10 years.

These are regional events and should be called that. A National is where everyone has some access to the event, centrally located. I would love to have one in Temecula, California. But would you truly draw any type of percentage from east of the Mississippi.

The first National in Kansas City had the right idea, and I think the club/organization should run the whole show. I know it is non profit but workers can be paid out of a non profit set up. Find a group that would run the event, and get paid for some of their time. Make it the same every year, so more people have an opportunity to attend. Establish relationships with the city that it is in and work with them, year after year. It is amazing what can be accomplished in this scenario.

I can make trips to the center of the country for a National, not the east coast, Florida or New England. If I am not mistaken there was one Kappa from California at the National this year, and I would guess two last year. I think the state has a tremendous number of them registered so you eliminate them. just the same as if you had it in Phoenix, it would eliminate pretty much everyone east of the Mississippi.

You can not drive from New York to Phoenix in a day or two normally, so for attendance you are spending 8 days on the road driving and 5 days at the event with long drives. It just does not add up for the vast majority of people with these cars.

Colorado, the front range, maybe the ideal spot for a reoccurring National. A very active group and have ran one already, and taking on number 2 I believe. I am not volunteering Rob to run it by any means. But as a group we need to start thinking long range. This flip flopping across the country isn't building the support a National is intended to do.

I would assume most of us have lives and do not fully revolve around our Kappa's.

Find 6-8 people that know how to run a National. Get them together, figure a salary for their efforts, and depend on the local club for added support.

The FJ Summit is a much larger event, ran by 5 people. It goes off nearly flawlessly ever single year. 350 trucks on 8 different routes thru the day. Free dinners three nights of the week, that is feeding 900 people each time. Over 200K in raffle prizes, and 40 to 50 vendors. A much larger operation, in every aspect. But they have been doing it for 11 years. Know what they can do and what they can't. What they need to support and how to support them. You learn this thru repetition.

Please don't get me wrong, I appreciate everything that has been done in the past, the effort that all have given for the Nationals of the past, but it may be time to reconsider how things are done. I talked with JohnWR and agreed he learned a lot that he could put to use if he had another one. That is why he has volunteered in case no one wants to take the ball and run with it for 2019. Good people doing this, we as a group just need to make it easier and less stressful for the organizers/promoters.
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post #21 of 117 (permalink) Old 06-30-2017, 04:51 PM
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skersfan is right.

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post #22 of 117 (permalink) Old 06-30-2017, 06:30 PM Thread Starter
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I'm going to say that I think he is partially right, but that it is important to recognize the differences between the FJs and us.

One thing, it is not a "National" it is an "Annual". That may be splitting hairs, but I think that it speaks to the intent of the event.

Attendance in Colorado next year is going to be an essential indicator of my main concern, and that is that the center of the country is not the center of the population, and especially not the Kappa population. When I bought a mailing list of Kappa owners I split it between Kentucky and Colorado, and I think it is significant that there are 5000 owners within a 225 mile radius of Lexington, but it takes an 800 mile radius to include 5000 owners around Central City, Colorado. This is reflected, I think, in the attendance of past Annuals: Nashville in '07 drew 162, Colorado in '09 drew 125, and Canton in '10 drew 203. Eastern meets have drawn more people, probably because more people have a shorter drive to them.

With almost 5,000 owners in California, an Annual in Temecula could well be the largest on record without even crossing the state line.

Where do attendees at the FJ National live? My guess is that the ones who participate are from areas where off-roading is the most popular, and that probably doesn't correspond to where driving sports cars is the most popular. Is there a record of where the attendees live?

I am also curious about how the professional management works, so a key question is: What is the cost structure for the FJ National? Where do they get their money, and what do they spend it on? How much does professional management cost?

I have said before, and still believe, that "we" cannot decide where the Annual is going to be and expect people to accept it. A fixed location Annual is going to grow from a location that is popular enough to attract people year after year, and that is only going to be determined by repeating an event year after year and having good attendance.

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post #23 of 117 (permalink) Old 06-30-2017, 06:40 PM
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Attendance in Colorado next year is going to be an essential indicator of my main concern, and that is that the center of the country is not the center of the population, and especially not the Kappa population. When I bought a mailing list of Kappa owners I split it between Kentucky and Colorado, and I think it is significant that there are 5000 owners within a 225 mile radius of Lexington, but it takes an 800 mile radius to include 5000 owners around Central City, Colorado. This is reflected, I think, in the attendance of past Annuals: Nashville in '07 drew 162, Colorado in '09 drew 125, and Canton in '10 drew 203. Eastern meets have drawn more people, probably because more people have a shorter drive to them.
This is the crux of the matter. Where do your attendees live? All of our events that have had the larger turn out have been in the eastern 1/3 of the country, east of the Mississippi. That is where the biggest group of Kappa owners reside.



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post #24 of 117 (permalink) Old 06-30-2017, 07:24 PM
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With almost 5,000 owners in California, an Annual in Temecula could well be the largest on record without even crossing the state line.
Actually Temecula would be both horrible and terrific. Great location as far as ambiance, places to drive, wineries (lots of beautiful wine country) but geographical location is not ideal. Situated far inland between Riverside and San Diego we are VERY far South in the state and out in the middle of the desert. Temperatures now are in the 100s.

California is a LONG state...big too but not Texas or Alaska big...but it's really long. Think Florida to New York City kind of long. Temecula would be in Florida. Now I don't know how many owners are in SoCal but I know there are a lot.

The bigger issue is getting them to come out. 90% of the time when I run across another owner they are completely unaware that even our regional clubs exist...or the forum...or the FB groups. Getting the word out to the owners here and getting them interested in something like this would be a bigger challenge than where to put the even for maximum attendance.


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post #25 of 117 (permalink) Old 06-30-2017, 07:29 PM Thread Starter
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...

The bigger issue is getting them to come out. 90% of the time when I run across another owner they are completely unaware that even our regional clubs exist...or the forum...or the FB groups. Getting the word out to the owners here and getting them interested in something like this would be a bigger challenge than where to put the even for maximum attendance.
This is a universal problem. I sent out 5000 postcards and got maybe 100 responses. Not attendees, responses. Only 2% of the people that received a 6x11 postcard in the mail were even interested in sending an email saying they might be interested in future activities.

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post #26 of 117 (permalink) Old 06-30-2017, 08:58 PM
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John, hope this answers some of your questions. A close friend is still a director, that is the title they use, will try to pin him down this year and get some better answers for you and the group.

As to the post card, most people are so overwhelmed with garbage mail, they don't look at it if it does not fit the regular bill measurement. I know I have told our mail lady to throw it away. Some of them do, some don't.

The Summit is not run by a professional organization, just guys from the group that put it on every year. There has been personnel change over the years. But basically just a group of FJ guys that want a National event. One guy drives a Scout!!!!

The FJ Summit is an annual event, held in the same spot year after year. The promoters are FJ owners that decided it would be kool to get everyone together for the first year, it just kept growing and growing.

Drivers are from every state, Mexico, all provinces of Canada and a few from Europe and South America I have been told. But like any event, Colorado participants out number every other state. I do not have a break down of numbers but possibly could get that.

To be honest there have been calls to move it, some feel it has been there too long, but this year we have a very large number of first time attendees, nearly 80% I was told. It normally sells out in less than 30 seconds. (350 trucks) Meaning they have a lot of money to start with. Deadline for the July event is 1 April. Nothing is sold until that day. Waiting list is said to normally be near 700. I am one of 8 that has made all FJ Summits. My guess is there are more Kappa people that have made all 12.

It is quite expensive to attend, but you do get quite a bit from them. For a family (3.5) to attend close to 500.00. With tee shirts and souvenirs They charge for vendors to show up, minimum I think is 500.00 cash with matching product to over 10,000 cash and matching product. Their raffle generates a tremendous amount of money. They sell tickets every day of the event. I am guessing on this, but close to 20K on the raffle. It could be more, but not much less.

They have several high school scholarships and mountain rescue as their main charities. Both have been guaranteed the scholarship and the mountain rescue funds will go on for at least ten years after the final event. Money in the bank.

It is a different group no question, but several have tried the moving to other areas and none of them have come anywhere near what the Summit is. I do believe they now have a Canadian Summit.

Our cars have been a dead item for a lot longer than the FJ, died in 2014 model year. But the Summit continues to grow, bring in new people and a lot of it is the experience of Ouray, Silverton and Telluride. Many that don't get in the Summit go the week before or the week after. Paradise for scenic off roading. But it does have some of the most beautiful mountain roads in the country surrounding it, so it isn't just off road specific. That is why all the movie stars/multi millionaires own homes in Telluride, sheer unsurpassed beauty.

I think Rob and group have hit on a great place, being that most are east of the Mississippi it would be a western area, and people love to go to the mountains for vacation. I am anxious to see how it works out for the group. I have volunteered to lead runs and help anyway I can, but it is just too far away to be involved with the planning of it.

Comparing apples to oranges I guess.

The Kappa cars are getting older and 4000 mile trips are not something that is going to happen much longer. Toyota is required to make parts for them until 2024, that has a large in put to I would think.

Plus the FJ Cruiser has held is value beyond belief. 2007's that sold for 27-30K are still bringing well over 17K. I recently turned down 22K for mine. Will never sell it, just like my Yellow Skpel. Love them.
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post #27 of 117 (permalink) Old 07-01-2017, 01:30 PM
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Here's my 2 cents: I don't like the idea of having it in the same location every year. That being said, we especially liked Lexington because there were activities not related to driving. If it were to be Lexington again in 2019, we would plan to attend.


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post #28 of 117 (permalink) Old 07-01-2017, 03:40 PM
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skersfan is right.
^^^^ me too!!!!
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post #29 of 117 (permalink) Old 07-01-2017, 05:38 PM
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Maybe this needs a seperate thread, but has there ever been a discussion of forming a National Kappa Club?

But then again, car clubs seem to be on the wain so maybe its just a thing who's time is passing.

Might make 2019, event, who knows.

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post #30 of 117 (permalink) Old 07-01-2017, 07:08 PM
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Maybe this needs a seperate thread, but has there ever been a discussion of forming a National Kappa Club?
Do a Google search for GM Roadster and NASSOA. Both dead and gone now.

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