Best 1/4 Mile Run So Far - Saturn Sky Forums: Saturn Sky Forum
Autocross and Racing Discussion (SKY/Kappa) Tips, tricks, vehicle prep and setup, etc.

User Tag List

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-08-2013, 08:54 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: East Orlando
Posts: 97
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Best 1/4 Mile Run So Far

2007 Saturn Sky Redline
Custom 3" Catless exhaust
Self Tuned E47 Tune
Nitto Motivo Tires
Spec Stage 3+ Clutch
N2MB Wot Box with NLS Set at 4000 RPM

I was expecting to dip into the 12's but couldnt get her to grip...

Not sure if I was excited or what but I kept missing second LMAO Noob status...

Anyone have any suggestions on how to launch this car? I was able to get a 1.8 60ft time a while ago but I could never replicate it... kept getting low 2 60ft times... I am on street tires.

Missed Second but the backfire had everyone confused lol. It normally does it between second to third but this night it did it almost every third to fourth.


Saturn Sky Backfire

Sky Redline VS Challenger SRT8

Over had tons of fun, didnt break anything and the car did great. I just need to adjust to the new clutch and learn to launch this beast. I either wheel hop/spin or bog....
ericemir is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-08-2013, 09:03 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: East Orlando
Posts: 97
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
ericemir is offline  
post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-08-2013, 06:36 PM
Senior Member
 
GS Stage 1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,909
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
You say you are on "street tires", what street tires?

If you are sill running on the OEM Eagle F1s, I am amazed you did that well. The F1s are POS, in my humble opinion. To pull down a low 13 quarter mile on them would almost be a super human achievement.

I am now running the Micheline Pilot Super Sports, and hooking up is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay easier.

I have some observations/questions about your "NLS" function that is incorporated into the WOT Box.

1. I suspect that the "NLS" function the WOT box runs is really a "Power shift" function. As in, all it does is hold RPM at a specific point during the shift (like the new C7 "rev matching"). Is this correct? Or is it a clone of the GMPP "NLS" function? As in it suspends spark for .2 seconds, keeps the BOV and WG closed, and phases the valves; thereby allowing full boost to be maintained going into the next gear. (Hence the reason that the GMPP NLS backfires at every shift; because unburnt fuel is hitting the CAT)

2. Why did you select 4000 RPM for the shift point? Torque does not drop off until 5500ish on these engines. And peak torque is not reached until 3600 RPM. With the GMPP NLS, it engages at the 6000ish RPM range, so when you hit the next gear you are well into the Torque curve again.

Also: Does your WOT box have "Launch Control"? If so, experiment with different RPMs. Even if you don't have LC, you need to experiment with different launch RPMS. Some folks have become adept at the old "three pedal launch" to build pre launch boost. But I have never liked doing that. This is something that the automatic transmission cars have an advantage on, because it is very easy to build pre launch boost when you only have two pedals to screw with. With the manual tran, it is just to fricken problematic, in my humble opinion. Besides, our cars spool up damn quick anyway.

For me, 1500 pre launch RPM was about all I could ever do, with the OEM F1s; and not just completely burn the tires down. I haven't played with the new PSS tires to know for sure where it hooks, yet. But, I definitely seem to be able to run it up into the 2000+ range, and not become completely counterproductive.

Sent from my DALEK MOBILE DEVICE using Exterminate.Com Free App

Last edited by GS Stage 1; 10-08-2013 at 06:38 PM.
GS Stage 1 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 06:40 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Browns Mills NJ
Posts: 370
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I agree you need better tires.
warrenhotrod1 is offline  
post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 08:02 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Morgantown WV
Posts: 701
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to RedSkyWV
I was right with you, 2.0 60' and 13.18 or 13.19 on street tires.

On ET streets unfortunately I only dipped to 1.88 or 1.86 and 13.01-13.03.
I'm on E47 now though, I'll have to try to get a run in this year.
RedSkyWV is offline  
post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 09:19 AM
Senior Member
 
miller11386's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,987
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
get some slicks! M&H makes a nice sport compact slick and it fits on a 17" "winter wheel" for the sky. I had a set but never got to use them. Another option is a second set of wheels and drag radials. The street tires will never give you a good 60 time.

Just remember that radials and slicks like to be hot! You will need a way to burn them off (Line lock or foot brake it)
miller11386 is offline  
post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 12:16 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: East Orlando
Posts: 97
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GS Stage 1 View Post
You say you are on "street tires", what street tires?

If you are sill running on the OEM Eagle F1s, I am amazed you did that well. The F1s are POS, in my humble opinion. To pull down a low 13 quarter mile on them would almost be a super human achievement.

I am now running the Micheline Pilot Super Sports, and hooking up is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay easier.

I have some observations/questions about your "NLS" function that is incorporated into the WOT Box.

1. I suspect that the "NLS" function the WOT box runs is really a "Power shift" function. As in, all it does is hold RPM at a specific point during the shift (like the new C7 "rev matching"). Is this correct? Or is it a clone of the GMPP "NLS" function? As in it suspends spark for .2 seconds, keeps the BOV and WG closed, and phases the valves; thereby allowing full boost to be maintained going into the next gear. (Hence the reason that the GMPP NLS backfires at every shift; because unburnt fuel is hitting the CAT)

2. Why did you select 4000 RPM for the shift point? Torque does not drop off until 5500ish on these engines. And peak torque is not reached until 3600 RPM. With the GMPP NLS, it engages at the 6000ish RPM range, so when you hit the next gear you are well into the Torque curve again.

Also: Does your WOT box have "Launch Control"? If so, experiment with different RPMs. Even if you don't have LC, you need to experiment with different launch RPMS. Some folks have become adept at the old "three pedal launch" to build pre launch boost. But I have never liked doing that. This is something that the automatic transmission cars have an advantage on, because it is very easy to build pre launch boost when you only have two pedals to screw with. With the manual tran, it is just to fricken problematic, in my humble opinion. Besides, our cars spool up damn quick anyway.

For me, 1500 pre launch RPM was about all I could ever do, with the OEM F1s; and not just completely burn the tires down. I haven't played with the new PSS tires to know for sure where it hooks, yet. But, I definitely seem to be able to run it up into the 2000+ range, and not become completely counterproductive.
I will try to answer these to my best ability.

1.
I have Nitto Motivos on my car. Not OEM, The wotbox i have installed is from N2MB. It cuts ignition for a fraction of a second to "Stall" the engine for a moment holding the rpm. The launch control is a prolonged version of that at a programed rpm range that can be changed via laptop.

2.
Its the preset I believed that N2MB did some research prior to shipping out their product. I am still messing with it so i will try different rpm ranges.. I dont know which is the best to launch at... I guess it varies



I didnt really wheel spin it was more of horrible wheel hop i didnt use it too much because I feared of breaking something...
ericemir is offline  
post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 12:17 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: East Orlando
Posts: 97
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
whats our bolt patter so i can buy some 17's and slicks on them. Do you guys feel that a braces ddm works sell will help with launching or is it more of a autocross thing...
ericemir is offline  
post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 01:39 PM
Senior Member
 
|V3nom|'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Denham Springs, LA
Posts: 2,055
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
4k rpms is way to high to launch on street tires, all youll do is spin. set it to 2k (the lowest setting) then go up from them until it starts spinning. it might even spin at 2k if the tires arent sticky enough.

the only other way to keep it from spinning is to adjust torque by gear table and lower 1st gear just enough to where it either doesnt spin or barely spins. a little spin at the beginning isnt bad as it keeps it from hooking and possible breaking parts, you just dont want to spin until you shift.

GM Stage 1 Tune|Solo Street Race Exhaust With Magnaflow Mufflers|GMR 8K HIDs|Parking Light Leds|License Plate Leds|Little Chromies|3rd Brake Light Vinyl:REDLINE|GMR Pulsating and Sequential Taillights|
|V3nom| is offline  
post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 02:23 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Morgantown WV
Posts: 701
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to RedSkyWV
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericemir View Post
whats our bolt patter so i can buy some 17's and slicks on them. Do you guys feel that a braces ddm works sell will help with launching or is it more of a autocross thing...
18x8 5x110, factory offset is +58, you'll want to stay in that neighborhood but you can come down to around 18x9+40 without much issue.


As for the bracing, it's wonderful for driving and autocross, but if anything it's a bit of a negative for drag racing. No front sway at all is almost ideal for drag racing.
RedSkyWV is offline  
post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 03:23 PM
Senior Member
 
GS Stage 1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,909
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericemir View Post
I will try to answer these to my best ability.

1.
I have Nitto Motivos on my car. Not OEM, The wotbox i have installed is from N2MB. It cuts ignition for a fraction of a second to "Stall" the engine for a moment holding the rpm. The launch control is a prolonged version of that at a programed rpm range that can be changed via laptop.

2.
Its the preset I believed that N2MB did some research prior to shipping out their product. I am still messing with it so i will try different rpm ranges.. I dont know which is the best to launch at... I guess it varies



I didnt really wheel spin it was more of horrible wheel hop i didnt use it too much because I feared of breaking something...
My Suggestion: If I understand you correctly, the NLS function that you have only suspends spark for a split second. And they have it set to engage at 4000 RPM. So if it is set to engage at 4000 RPM AND above: This should work. You want to actually shift at around 5500 - 6000. If you have not raised the Rev Limiter, (stock programming is 6300. GMPP programming is 6500, most aftermarket tunes punch it up to at least 6500 and usually a little higher): Be aware that our tachs seem to be a little slow to react. So often you think you shifted before the Rev Limit, but end up bouncing off it anyway. So best to shift just a hair earlier.

I agree with my associates, do not set Launch Control above 2000 to start and see how it does. Even with the Nittos, you may have to bring it down a little lower from there, depending on conditions.

If you are actually getting wheel hop at launch: Then you need to back way off and start over at lower RPMs. Or punch through at a lot higher and go for pure spin; but that tactic is very counterproductive. I use to battle the Wheel Hop issue extensively with my old Buick; but that was a completely different beast. The Sky seems much less prone to this issue, generally speaking. So I suspect something about your particular set up is making the issue worse: Tires & Tire Pressure can make a huge difference here. Try experimenting with different tire pressures. The Nittos are supposed to be good autocross tires; but I have not seen anyone comment about drag racing with them.

Sent from my DALEK MOBILE DEVICE using Exterminate.Com Free App
GS Stage 1 is offline  
post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 03:26 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Morgantown WV
Posts: 701
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to RedSkyWV
Yeah, second on tire pressure. You want the rears bordering on flat. Probably 20psi +/-

The fronts should be very high, 30psi or higher.
RedSkyWV is offline  
post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 04:26 PM
Senior Member
 
|V3nom|'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Denham Springs, LA
Posts: 2,055
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GS Stage 1 View Post
My Suggestion: If I understand you correctly, the NLS function that you have only suspends spark for a split second. And they have it set to engage at 4000 RPM. So if it is set to engage at 4000 RPM AND above: This should work. You want to actually shift at around 5500 - 6000. If you have not raised the Rev Limiter, (stock programming is 6300. GMPP programming is 6500, most aftermarket tunes punch it up to at least 6500 and usually a little higher): Be aware that our tachs seem to be a little slow to react. So often you think you shifted before the Rev Limit, but end up bouncing off it anyway. So best to shift just a hair earlier.
with a wotbox you dont set the nls for the rpms, you set it for how long you want it to cut spark. so if you want you could nls at any rpm range with the wotbox, unlike gm which has to be done perfectly around 6200.

the 4k rpms hes referring to is only for the 2-step which is for launching.

GM Stage 1 Tune|Solo Street Race Exhaust With Magnaflow Mufflers|GMR 8K HIDs|Parking Light Leds|License Plate Leds|Little Chromies|3rd Brake Light Vinyl:REDLINE|GMR Pulsating and Sequential Taillights|
|V3nom| is offline  
post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 05:19 PM
Senior Member
 
GS Stage 1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,909
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by |V3nom| View Post
with a wotbox you dont set the nls for the rpms, you set it for how long you want it to cut spark. so if you want you could nls at any rpm range with the wotbox, unlike gm which has to be done perfectly around 6200.

the 4k rpms hes referring to is only for the 2-step which is for launching.
Ah, that makes sense. Then I would say 4K for launching would be counterproductive, even with drag slicks. Maybe if he was launching in 2nd gear? Our 1st gear just has way to much torque for those RPMS at launch.

On the GMPP NLS, I have been playing with it a lot more, now that I have tires that actually stick.

And I have discovered that the NLS does actually engage at lower RPMS. I was popping it today at 5500 +/- and it would work. But just not nearly as well. The Turbo Does not hold full boost going into the next gear at those RPMs. It doesn't drop clean off like a normal shift, but it also does not hammer full boost into the next gear like it does at the 6200-6500 shift point; so there is a slight spool time. Everything else behaves exactly the same, including the backfire from unburnt gas hitting the CAT.

Sent from my DALEK MOBILE DEVICE using Exterminate.Com Free App
GS Stage 1 is offline  
post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-10-2013, 01:44 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: East Orlando
Posts: 97
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ok so i lowered the RPM for the launch to 2500RPM and on the street it takes off much better and I have lowered the torque to about 60% in first gear with HPTuners. I will try it at the track later this week!

Thanks for the help guys
ericemir is offline  
Reply

  Saturn Sky Forums: Saturn Sky Forum > Saturn Sky Discussion > Autocross and Racing Discussion (SKY/Kappa)

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Saturn Sky Forums: Saturn Sky Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome