Electrical help needed, where to pick up RPM Signal for EBoost2 - Saturn Sky Forums: Saturn Sky Forum
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-18-2017, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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Electrical help needed, where to pick up RPM Signal for EBoost2

So I'm hoping some of our electronics experts.. @TomatoSoup, @Hoosier GXP, @JohnWR[email protected] help with this.

I am getting a Turbosmart e-Boost2 boost controller. The main reason I'm getting this controller is that it will correct for boost drop over RPM, a problem I have with me LE5/K04 turbo setup where it starts at 12 psi around 3,500 rpm and drops to 9 psi by 5500 rpm. To do this, the controller must be wired into a RPM signal from the ECM or a Coil.

The problem is it is very specific about the kind of signal it wants and I need to know the following:
  1. Is the signal from the Coil Ground or ECM pin the proper signal?
  2. Which of these signals is easier to tap into and where should I tap into it?

Fairly straight forward. Per the e-Boost2 instructions, (http://www.treadstoneperformance.com...4.pdf#page=8):


Quote:
The e-Boost2 is able to accept an RPM signal in the form of a square wave that is
switching between 0V and 3.5-12 volts.
The signal wire going to the controller can be from the ECM pin OR a coil's ground wire. I'd think the ground wire would be easier but considering we have 4 coils, I'm not sure if this is as simple as it sounds.

I tried to find an ignition wiring diagram and am just coming up blank. Don't know why. I know one is out there but no joy trying to find it. Any help here would be appreciated.


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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-18-2017, 11:52 PM
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Since we both have a 2.4 with turbo where are you picking up the boost pressure currently, that the turbo uses to determine boost pressure? I had similar issues until I moved my boost hose to the intake. There was a spot on the precision turbo I was supposed to use but it did not take into account loss across the tubing and intercooler as the pressure went up. I moved the hose to the intake manifold by drilling my own hole in the plastic manifold and installing my own barb with a little black silicone adhesive. I no longer have the issue you describe. I did this thinking the sensor for the car is in the intake why not move the turbo to a spot as close as possible.

As for the RPM I picked up mine from the number 1 ignition coil. when I needed a signal. I had a setting on mine and selected 4 cylinder and the rpm came right inline with what the tachometer showed. I don't know which wire it is either off the top of my head. If someone doesn't get you the info before tomorrow evening I can look at my car. I park it in off site storage and have to walk over to the garage to see under the hood and get the wire I used.

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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-19-2017, 12:12 AM
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The wiring diagram is pretty easy. What to do with it may not be.

It looks like you can connect to one of the four coil control outputs, set the number of cylinders to "1". and everything will be fine.
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-19-2017, 01:47 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher_2 View Post
Since we both have a 2.4 with turbo where are you picking up the boost pressure currently, that the turbo uses to determine boost pressure? I had similar issues until I moved my boost hose to the intake. There was a spot on the precision turbo I was supposed to use but it did not take into account loss across the tubing and intercooler as the pressure went up. I moved the hose to the intake manifold by drilling my own hole in the plastic manifold and installing my own barb with a little black silicone adhesive. I no longer have the issue you describe. I did this thinking the sensor for the car is in the intake why not move the turbo to a spot as close as possible.

As for the RPM I picked up mine from the number 1 ignition coil. when I needed a signal. I had a setting on mine and selected 4 cylinder and the rpm came right inline with what the tachometer showed. I don't know which wire it is either off the top of my head. If someone doesn't get you the info before tomorrow evening I can look at my car. I park it in off site storage and have to walk over to the garage to see under the hood and get the wire I used.
Mine is coming off the vac line running to the brake booster. This is directly into the manifold and sees both boost and vacuum. My boost gauge and bypass valve is off this line too. I talked to Bill Hahn about this and he said the K04 and it's internal wastegate is very susceptible to this when running a mechanical controller. I had mine running off the turbo compressor housing too and relocated it to the intake manifold source. Christopher, if you could verify how you hooked yours up I'd appreciate it. Are you running a e-Boost2 on your setup also?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnWR View Post
The wiring diagram is pretty easy. What to do with it may not be.

It looks like you can connect to one of the four coil control outputs, set the number of cylinders to "1". and everything will be fine.
JohnWR, thanks for that diagram, that's exactly what I need. The directions for the gauge says to go to a ground from one of the coils. With a shared ground wouldn't each coil cause a pulse in that ground when it fires and thus you would need to set the gauge to 4 cyl so that it knows how many pulses make up 1 rpm?


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Last edited by Robotech; 07-19-2017 at 01:54 AM.
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-19-2017, 09:38 AM
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Also, there was a very similar request recently over on the KP forum: Tach signal.

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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-19-2017, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotech View Post
...
JohnWR, thanks for that diagram, that's exactly what I need. The directions for the gauge says to go to a ground from one of the coils. With a shared ground wouldn't each coil cause a pulse in that ground when it fires and thus you would need to set the gauge to 4 cyl so that it knows how many pulses make up 1 rpm?
You're welcome. I will first say that I haven't done this, so I am speaking from supposition rather than knowledge:

The "normal" operation of an ignition coil is to supply it with constant power and ground it through the control (points in the old days) to fire it. In that case the ground side of the coil switches from 0 to +12 with each ignition pulse.

This operation is different in that the coil is supplied with constant power and ground, and a signal from the ECM fires it. My thought is that you want to connect to the signal line from the ECM, ie: terminal 3 on a coil.

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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-19-2017, 10:56 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomatoSoup View Post
Also, there was a very similar request recently over on the KP forum: Tach signal.
Thanks for that TS but is that injector diagram for an LNK, LNF, or LE5? Wouldn't it be a bit different for the LE5 since we're not direct injected? For the e-boost2, it can take up to 12v...I doubt the coil negative would be more than 12v, yes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnWR View Post
You're welcome. I will first say that I haven't done this, so I am speaking from supposition rather than knowledge:

The "normal" operation of an ignition coil is to supply it with constant power and ground it through the control (points in the old days) to fire it. In that case the ground side of the coil switches from 0 to +12 with each ignition pulse.

This operation is different in that the coil is supplied with constant power and ground, and a signal from the ECM fires it. My thought is that you want to connect to the signal line from the ECM, ie: terminal 3 on a coil.
I only mention the negative side as this is what the e-Boost2 instructions state:

Quote:
The following points should be followed to connect your RPM signal to the negative terminal of an ignition coil.
They do recommend that you use the ECM pin if possible though. Anyone have the wiring diagram showing where the tach signal is on the ECM? Not that I will go that route as it would be a bear to tie into but something to consider.


V.A.L. (#1108)
2007 2.4 Base
MagnaFlow dual outlet, quad tip exhaust test car
**Sold**

Max (#1547)
2007 TURBO 2.4
Too much to list here. See my Garage for details.

Last edited by Robotech; 07-19-2017 at 11:04 AM.
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-19-2017, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotech View Post
...

I only mention the negative side as this is what the e-Boost2 instructions state:

They do recommend that you use the ECM pin if possible though. Anyone have the wiring diagram showing where the tach signal is on the ECM? Not that I will go that route as it would be a bear to tie into but something to consider.
I read their instruction, it looks like it was written for a fairly limited range of vehicle manufacturers, and they all probably use the more conventional coil control.

I looked through the connector pin-outs for the 2.4 ECM and did not see anything identified as a tach/RPM signal. I think that a coil trigger is going to be the best you can do.

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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-19-2017, 12:53 PM Thread Starter
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Seems far simpler anyway. Well, looks like I'll just have to go off one of the coil leads.
@christopher_2, if you could check yours and see which wire you tied into, that would be a huge help. I get what John is saying and I figure the eBoost2 instructions are written to work with a wide variety of cars but having a real world example would be a huge help.


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Last edited by Robotech; 07-19-2017 at 12:56 PM.
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-19-2017, 06:05 PM
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Are you waiting to install it now or can you wait another day? It just started raining here in MN, we need the rain so I can't complain. Sent you a PM with my phone number.

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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-20-2017, 11:12 AM Thread Starter
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Na, I don't even have it in my possession yet. No rush but I appreciate the photo so I can have a better visual of what I'm doing.


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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-20-2017, 05:54 PM
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Hope this helps the green wire is from my boost gauge it is an AEM UEGO setup that logs boost vs RPM. I stripped some insulation off of the purple wire, soldered the green wire to it, then put liquid electrical tape over the connection. I wouldn't say I even stripped it, I think I may have used a pair of wire strippers made a cut around the insulation and pulled it back to make room to connected the tachometer wire. After it dried I wrapped it in electrical tape, looks a little like a mess now, removed the tape to get a good picture.
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2007 (2.4L)
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Werks Turbo @ 10 PSI
FE2 shocks
KappaSphere coil springs and rebar
ZOK anti-sway bars
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-20-2017, 06:08 PM
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Gauge I installed
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2007 (2.4L)
Solo Cat
Magnaflo Redline dual exhaust
Werks Turbo @ 10 PSI
FE2 shocks
KappaSphere coil springs and rebar
ZOK anti-sway bars
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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-21-2017, 10:36 AM Thread Starter
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That helps a lot Christopher, thank you.


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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-21-2017, 12:27 PM
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If you have any other questions let me know, I might have to blow out some cobwebs as it has been awhile. I think I made most of my connections at the BCM. I have the factory service manuals if you need some pictures for reference.

2007 (2.4L)
Solo Cat
Magnaflo Redline dual exhaust
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FE2 shocks
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