UPDATED 12/31/19 GM Issues a Recall of the Passenger Presence Sensor! - Page 44 - Saturn Sky Forums: Saturn Sky Forum
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post #646 of 1055 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 07:00 PM
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@Robotech

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Originally Posted by Robotech View Post
Yes, but then it contradicts what their remedy says in the letter. At this point, what they're testing above is an open circuit failure and that is the only way they are replacing a "damaged" mat. If the mat is torn but still functional, it is compromised. However that can only be determined if you open the mat.
See your PM from me.

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post #647 of 1055 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 07:35 PM
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"Refer to Inflatable Restraint Passenger Presence System Replacement - System in SI.

That was a lot of help, correct?

Are these pics of the felt cover, I've never removed the seat cover myself? If I'm reading this correctly, the reinforcement strip is adhered to the felt.

OK get out the scanner, here's how to install the reinforcement strip, I don't recognize the pad.
Crap! Yes that's the felt cover. So they're reinforcing the felt cover. NOT the mat itself which slides (relatively) freely under the felt. Damn. How will this ever work?

Mat showing felt top - this is heat welded to the bottom through the holes in the sensor mat (below). So the sensor layer can slide up to an amount.




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post #648 of 1055 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 07:40 PM
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Crap! Yes that's the felt cover. So they're reinforcing the felt cover. NOT the mat itself which slides (relatively) freely under the felt. Damn. How will this ever work?
Thanks for verifying what I thought I was seeing, Crap and Damn are both entirely justified.

I emailed the entire document to Robotech, so we'll see what he says publicly.

Color me unimpressed!



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post #649 of 1055 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 07:53 PM
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Summary of the above:

By their procedure, they don't have to remove the seat cover in order to determine which parts to order, or, they can order a couple of spare PPS units to keep in stock just in case they are needed, and then order reinforcement tapes for every kappa car, as they all will require the reinforcement tape.



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post #650 of 1055 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 08:29 PM
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WOW.
GM just loves to give their customers the finger.

Why are they putting Kappa owners through this bullish!t when they replaced the exact same part in other GM vehicles.

One more reason to justify my
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post #651 of 1055 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 11:10 PM
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Put a hold on the crow please.

Personally, you don't fix electronics with duct tape (had to Dave). Cheapest way to get thru, but not really a fix. A delaying event, then in a year or so when it fails it will be out of the required time. I will talk with my dealer, request that both matts are replaced. May go by tomorrow, but most likely Monday. Something that has been setting for 12 years in the sun, big butts on it does not get fixed with tape. As Dave said, color me less tha impressed, but amazed they did anything.
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post #652 of 1055 (permalink) Old 03-05-2018, 03:42 PM Thread Starter
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Well, took my car into the dealer today. They looked at me weird since I was just in there a couple months ago for this. They asked me why I was back.

"Well," I said, "at the time you ran a diagnostic on the mat and said it was good so you didn't do anything else. You and your tech both said you didn't take the cushion out or apart so the reinforcement tape wasn't applied. I believe the mat is broken now and needs to be replaced AND have the tape installed. At the very least, you need to add the tape."

"That's all that needed to be done, I believe. Let's look at what the recall states."

"I can tell you EXACTLY what the recall states...you need to add the reinforcement tape whether you install a new mat to replace a damaged one OR if the mat is working. Both you and your tech stated this was not done last time when I asked both of you directly if it had."

"Oh, well let me see what the tech's report states..." insert 30 second of keyboard clicking sounds here "...okay, let me start the paperwork and we'll get on it."

Tape is on order though they told me the seat sensor was functional. @skersfan, looks like this seat had a working sensor. We'll see when they do the work.

As for the fix, IIRC from my research, this is how the CTS was handled. The felt enclosed mat assemblies came from IEE and then were assembled to the cushion and covered at LEAR before moving on to GM for final assembly. With the CTS, the tape was added by LEAR during assembly. This would lead me to believe this fix is the same one used on the CTS. This fix was shown to dramatically reduce (but never eliminate completely) the failure. This is why with the CTS, there was a recall group (no tape or tape but a manufacturing process that was pre-stressing the 3D matrix that breaks) and an extended warranty group (with tape and after the manufacturing flaw was addressed).


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post #653 of 1055 (permalink) Old 03-05-2018, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotech View Post
As for the fix, IIRC from my research, this is how the CTS was handled. The felt enclosed mat assemblies came from IEE and then were assembled to the cushion and covered at LEAR before moving on to GM for final assembly. With the CTS, the tape was added by LEAR during assembly. This would lead me to believe this fix is the same one used on the CTS. This fix was shown to dramatically reduce (but never eliminate completely) the failure. This is why with the CTS, there was a recall group (no tape or tape but a manufacturing process that was pre-stressing the 3D matrix that breaks) and an extended warranty group (with tape and after the manufacturing flaw was addressed).
Robo, if you dont take the seat out and inspect their "repair", how will you know if they do it? The conversation you had, does make me think they would stoop to ANYTHING. I wouldnt trust them as far as they can throw your car!!! Dont let them try throwing it, I will tell you, it isnt very far.

For me, mine is still working and I called GM to see how long the repair would be available. They said that it does NOT EXPIRE. So I will wait until mine fails before I ever darken their door again.

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post #654 of 1055 (permalink) Old 03-05-2018, 06:21 PM
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.......For me, mine is still working and I called GM to see how long the repair would be available. They said that it does NOT EXPIRE. So I will wait until mine fails before I ever darken their door again.
While the recall never technically expires, there is no obligation for GM to keep service parts (new sensors) for more than ten years after the last car is produced. They might, but don't have to. The last day that parts are required by law to be available is 31 December, 2019.

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post #655 of 1055 (permalink) Old 03-05-2018, 06:55 PM
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So it is now 1/1/2020, and the GM dealer says no parts are available anywhere to fix your error code, how do you clear the code so you can drive your car without a pesky error code flashing at you?

This seat mechanism is a mechanical device that WILL fail eventually on every one of these cars. I fail to see how we can continue using the car. ????

Explanation please.
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post #656 of 1055 (permalink) Old 03-05-2018, 07:44 PM
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So it is now 1/1/2020, and the GM dealer says no parts are available anywhere to fix your error code, how do you clear the code so you can drive your car without a pesky error code flashing at you?

This seat mechanism is a mechanical device that WILL fail eventually on every one of these cars. I fail to see how we can continue using the car. ????

Explanation please.
True of most Mechanical parts on a car. They will fail.

I am a GM Engineer.

I do not claim to be a GM representative, all of my postings are my own interpretation and personal opinions.

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post #657 of 1055 (permalink) Old 03-05-2018, 08:52 PM
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So it is now 1/1/2020, and the GM dealer says no parts are available anywhere to fix your error code, how do you clear the code so you can drive your car without a pesky error code flashing at you?

This seat mechanism is a mechanical device that WILL fail eventually on every one of these cars. I fail to see how we can continue using the car. ????

Explanation please.
When that happens, check back with me. I have an emulator that gives you manual control of the passenger airbag. By then I will have done enough testing to be confident that it is reliable, but right now it is too new to trust, and still has a minor bug or six.

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post #658 of 1055 (permalink) Old 03-05-2018, 09:45 PM
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When that happens, check back with me. I have an emulator that gives you manual control of the passenger airbag. By then I will have done enough testing to be confident that it is reliable, but right now it is too new to trust, and still has a minor bug or six.
Stick around. I will contact you then.

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post #659 of 1055 (permalink) Old 03-05-2018, 10:05 PM
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I guess I am fortunate, I have a great dealership(Diamond Hills Chevrolet/GMC/Buick) The owner, whom we have bought several vehicles thru, and personally got our 2016 Volt bought back by GM, told the tech to do it on Thursday morning at 10AM. And that I was allowed in the service area when it was done and when it was removed and replaced or the tape put on it. I have never had anything but a great feeling dealing with this dealer. Being a die hard Ford person, they have treated me fantastic since I bought a new 2007 GMC 3500. The day we saw the first Soltice in town. When ever I take the car into the dealer ship. It is immediately placed on the alignment machine which then is lifted off the ground, so nothing can happen to it. Bob Knight is a fantastic guy, who truly watches out for the cutomer. And his business is growing by leaps and bounds. They are replacing the showroom from the ground up with all the latest GM requested Dodads. Anything you could ask for is at the dealership, from duallys (GMC and Chevrolet) to top of the line Vettes, Buicks and on and on. I would guess at least 100 picksups in the secondary lot. I would never go anywhere else to buy/lease a new truck or car. And we are talking a small town, may be 50K
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post #660 of 1055 (permalink) Old 03-05-2018, 11:41 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRL View Post
Robo, if you dont take the seat out and inspect their "repair", how will you know if they do it? The conversation you had, does make me think they would stoop to ANYTHING. I wouldnt trust them as far as they can throw your car!!! Dont let them try throwing it, I will tell you, it isnt very far.

For me, mine is still working and I called GM to see how long the repair would be available. They said that it does NOT EXPIRE. So I will wait until mine fails before I ever darken their door again.
Well, we may be doing just that.

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I guess I am fortunate, I have a great dealership(Diamond Hills Chevrolet/GMC/Buick) The owner, whom we have bought several vehicles thru, and personally got our 2016 Volt bought back by GM, told the tech to do it on Thursday morning at 10AM. And that I was allowed in the service area when it was done and when it was removed and replaced or the tape put on it. I have never had anything but a great feeling dealing with this dealer. Being a die hard Ford person, they have treated me fantastic since I bought a new 2007 GMC 3500. The day we saw the first Soltice in town. When ever I take the car into the dealer ship. It is immediately placed on the alignment machine which then is lifted off the ground, so nothing can happen to it. Bob Knight is a fantastic guy, who truly watches out for the cutomer. And his business is growing by leaps and bounds. They are replacing the showroom from the ground up with all the latest GM requested Dodads. Anything you could ask for is at the dealership, from duallys (GMC and Chevrolet) to top of the line Vettes, Buicks and on and on. I would guess at least 100 picksups in the secondary lot. I would never go anywhere else to buy/lease a new truck or car. And we are talking a small town, may be 50K
May need to talk to you about this...I was told today the sensor in the seat you are letting me borrow is good and I'm not sure how much I trust that.


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