UPDATED 3/1/2018 GM Issues a Recall of the Passenger Presence Sensor! - Page 43 - Saturn Sky Forums: Saturn Sky Forum
Technical Saturn Sky Discussion Technical and performance aspects of the Saturn Sky Roadster. Sky Problems | Solutions | Repairs | Recalls | Tech Bulletins | Tech Tips | In the Manual Basic Tech Advertisement

User Tag List

 123Likes
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #631 of 984 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 07:52 AM
Moderator
 
JohnWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 4,462
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotech View Post
I don't think that's right John.

Per the letter:

"Occupant pressure on the seat in the same location can, over time, bend and damage the sensor's printed conductor. In severe cases, this damage can cause an open circuit in the sensor."

That tells me that even if the mat is working, if it is starting to tear it is considered "damaged". I have not seen in the current letter what the repair will be, but in the unofficial repair that was listed before, if the mat wasn't damaged, they would just add the tape but if the mat WAS "damaged" it would be replaced with a new mat that would also be taped.

It comes down to that word...damage. Does the damage have to be into the printed circuit? If the mat is ripped at all is it considered damaged? That's what I don't know at the moment. When I took mine in before, they were looking for a sensor with an open circuit and a failed mat. The above statement in the letter tells me that the mat doesn't have to have the open circuit (which is what trips the error lights and messages) in order to be considered damaged. Thus a working mat could still be considered damaged and thus eligible for replacement.
Good point. The one I took out of the 08 when I bought it was not working but had no damage that was visible without careful examination of the trace so I tend to think they all fail that way.
I haven't seen that anyone has examined a damaged but functional sensor, so there is no indication about how quickly the tear happens and whether it is caused by fatigue (repeated flexing) or acute damage (kneeling in the seat).
You are exactly correct however that a functional but damaged sensor would be replaced, or at least should be.

John
Lexington, KY
Sky NA 2007 Midnight Blue
Sky RL 2008 Carbon Flash - Naked

Last edited by JohnWR; 03-02-2018 at 08:01 AM.
JohnWR is offline  
post #632 of 984 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 09:34 AM
First 2000 Sr. Member
 
marlboromike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Bonita Springs, Florida
Posts: 17,004
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 871 Post(s)
Garage
Update: To be exact, do not go over to your GM dealership. This will save you a trip. Call them. They definitely do not have the part. It must be ordered and then you will receive a call when the part arrives.

To answer Robo and Johns concern....I assume it will be one fix for all because my GM dealership didn't ask to inspect my PPS before ordering the part...

I just amended this post...I wrote did...it should have read didn't

Last edited by marlboromike; 03-02-2018 at 11:55 AM.
marlboromike is offline  
post #633 of 984 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 10:57 AM
Senior Member
 
44thSKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
Posts: 1,267
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
Send a message via MSN to 44thSKY
Quote:
Originally Posted by marlboromike View Post
Update:
To answer Robo and Johns concern....I assume it will be one fix for all because my GM dealership did ask to inspect my PPS before ordering the part...
MM, could you elaborate on the answer above. I'm reading it that you may have left out a word. Are you saying ..... no questions asked by the dealer ....... everyone gets a replacement, NO MATTER WHAT CONDITION IS OF CURRENT PPS?
44thSKY is offline  
post #634 of 984 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 11:03 AM
First 2000 Sr. Member
 
DaveOC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 2,703
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44thSKY View Post
MM, could you elaborate on the answer above. I'm reading it that you may have left out a word. Are you saying ..... no questions asked by the dealer ....... everyone gets a replacement, NO MATTER WHAT CONDITION IS OF CURRENT PPS?
For what it is worth, there are two part numbers. Which you get is determined by whether the existing seat sensor is "damaged". The dealer must examine the seat to determine which part to use, the sticky tape part, or the sticky tape already installed on a new seat mat.

BTW, some dealers don't read real well either!



.

Dave -
2006 Solstice NA #000741
DaveOC is online now  
post #635 of 984 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 11:16 AM
Member
 
TerryJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Jonesboro, Arkansas
Posts: 83
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Garage
Seat sensor recall letter

Received my Recall letter from GM today. TLJ

"Man cannot live by Bread alone, He must have Peanut Butter"
TerryJ is offline  
post #636 of 984 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 11:47 AM
Senior Member
 
44thSKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
Posts: 1,267
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
Send a message via MSN to 44thSKY
DaveOC, so the words "The dealer must examine the seat" means the bottom seat cover must be removed in order to see which condition exists? Correct?

So this would tell me the steps above would tell the dealer which part to order. Now they put the seat back together as when you arrived, send you home, and you wait for the dealer to call to schedule a return for the actual work to be performed. My questions, just so I understand what to expect of the sequence of events.
44thSKY is offline  
post #637 of 984 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 11:57 AM
First 2000 Sr. Member
 
marlboromike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Bonita Springs, Florida
Posts: 17,004
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 871 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44thSKY View Post
MM, could you elaborate on the answer above. I'm reading it that you may have left out a word. Are you saying ..... no questions asked by the dealer ....... everyone gets a replacement, NO MATTER WHAT CONDITION IS OF CURRENT PPS?
Bill...I just amended my post. Hope that helps.
marlboromike is offline  
post #638 of 984 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 01:47 PM
First 2000 Sr. Member
 
DaveOC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 2,703
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44thSKY View Post
DaveOC, so the words "The dealer must examine the seat" means the bottom seat cover must be removed in order to see which condition exists? Correct?

So this would tell me the steps above would tell the dealer which part to order. Now they put the seat back together as when you arrived, send you home, and you wait for the dealer to call to schedule a return for the actual work to be performed. My questions, just so I understand what to expect of the sequence of events.
So . . . before I can answer this, I'll need to talk to my dealer service manager, there is a grey area where the seat mat can be "damaged" but be intact enough to still pass the "put an adult in the seat and see if it registers the airbag is on" test, at least according to Robotech.

So . . . I don't have an answer to your question, but I'll stop this afternoon while I'm out and ask.



.

Dave -
2006 Solstice NA #000741
DaveOC is online now  
post #639 of 984 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 02:13 PM
Senior Member

 
Rusty Boltz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 1,542
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 146 Post(s)
Garage
I heard back from my service advisor late yesterday. He said he "ordered the parts" and will call me to set up an appointment when they come in.


07 Sky
2.4L NA
5 speed
Limited slip differential
Chrome wheels
Premium trim package
Monsoon audio
AM/FM/XM/CD changer
Rusty Boltz is offline  
post #640 of 984 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 04:20 PM
First 2000 Sr. Member
 
DaveOC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 2,703
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44thSKY View Post
DaveOC, so the words "The dealer must examine the seat" means the bottom seat cover must be removed in order to see which condition exists? Correct?

So this would tell me the steps above would tell the dealer which part to order. Now they put the seat back together as when you arrived, send you home, and you wait for the dealer to call to schedule a return for the actual work to be performed. My questions, just so I understand what to expect of the sequence of events.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveOC View Post
So . . . before I can answer this, I'll need to talk to my dealer service manager, there is a grey area where the seat mat can be "damaged" but be intact enough to still pass the "put an adult in the seat and see if it registers the airbag is on" test, at least according to Robotech.

So . . . I don't have an answer to your question, but I'll stop this afternoon while I'm out and ask.



.
I now have the dealer procedure document available to me, so here goes my paraphrase of the document.

Step 1: With the vehicle ignition key in the "on" position, have an adult weighing at least 150 lbs. occupy the passenger seat. Observe the passenger airbag telltale. It should change from "off" to "on". If the passenger airbag telltale indicates that the airbag is on, proceed to the part of the instructions that deal with installation of the adhesive backed reinforcement strip. If the passenger airbag telltale indicates that the airbag is NOT on, proceed to the part of the instructions that deal with the replacement of the inflatable restraint passenger presence module in addition to performing the installation of the reinforcement strip.

At this point, they should know which parts to order, and the seat cover has not been removed. In order to do either repair, the seat cover needs to be removed.

Part numbers:

4 Retainer - Seat Cover #10121502
1 Reinforcement - Passenger Presence Sensor #84447742
1 (if required) Module - Passenger Presence #19124219

My comment: The diagnostic part of this does not require visual examination of the sensor mat, and is done with the seat cover on. The only question is whether the dealer needs to order the the sensor mat as well as the reinforcement strip. The mats are not coming with the reinforcement strip pre-assembled.

The document is 8 pages long and mostly deals with the replacement of the passenger presence module.

Did this answer your questions:

@marlboromike @44thSKY @JohnWR @Robotech

Dave -
2006 Solstice NA #000741

Last edited by DaveOC; 03-04-2018 at 09:27 AM.
DaveOC is online now  
post #641 of 984 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 05:00 PM
Senior Member
 
TomatoSoup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
Posts: 3,748
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 440 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveOC View Post
I now have the dealer procedure document available to me, so here goes my paraphrase of the document.
So that says the mat has either failed or not, and "damaged" = failed. So anyone with a mat that has started to crack (but not yet failed) just gets the tape and no replacement.

Thus, for me (when I DO get to do this), I will check the mat myself and if there IS any damage/cracks, will exacerbate it to the point it fails. I'll have to remove the cover anyway to remove my seat heater mat (to avoid 'difficult questions').

Please note: for those of you who've not seen a naked mat, there is a heat-glued felt material cover over top of the sensor mat. So it's not easy to see if you have damage or not, even with the seat cover off. THAT raises the question @DaveOC, what does the dealer procedure document say about replacing that felt cover?
44thSKY likes this.

Owner of "Campbelle", a Brazen 2008 GXP ... with mods piling up...
TomatoSoup is online now  
post #642 of 984 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 05:23 PM
Senior Member
 
44thSKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
Posts: 1,267
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
Send a message via MSN to 44thSKY
As TS describes, his intention is to further the damage thus the complete pad will be replaced.

SO, this leads to the question, for those whose pad has not yet failed (but a failed diagnosis), is the recall step when completed per the diagnosis described mean the recall obligation for any future failure the responsibility of the owner?

If SO, what is the end date for an owner to take his car in on the recall? (my PPS units seem to be working correctly now)
44thSKY is offline  
post #643 of 984 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 05:35 PM
First 2000 Sr. Member
 
DaveOC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 2,703
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomatoSoup View Post
THAT raises the question @DaveOC, what does the dealer procedure document say about replacing that felt cover?
"Refer to Inflatable Restraint Passenger Presence System Replacement - System in SI.

That was a lot of help, correct?

Are these pics of the felt cover, I've never removed the seat cover myself? If I'm reading this correctly, the reinforcement strip is adhered to the felt.

OK get out the scanner, here's how to install the reinforcement strip, I don't recognize the pad.

NOTE: Attachments removed 3-3-18

Dave -
2006 Solstice NA #000741

Last edited by DaveOC; 03-03-2018 at 08:25 AM.
DaveOC is online now  
post #644 of 984 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
Super Moderator
 
Robotech's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 10,478
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1621 Post(s)
Garage
Yes, but then it contradicts what their remedy says in the letter. At this point, what they're testing above is an open circuit failure and that is the only way they are replacing a "damaged" mat. If the mat is torn but still functional, it is compromised. However that can only be determined if you open the mat.


V.A.L. (#1108)
2007 2.4 Base
MagnaFlow dual outlet, quad tip exhaust test car
**Sold**

Max (#1547)
2007 TURBO 2.4
Too much to list here. See my Garage for details.
Robotech is offline  
post #645 of 984 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 05:59 PM
First 2000 Sr. Member
 
marlboromike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Bonita Springs, Florida
Posts: 17,004
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 871 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotech View Post
Yes, but then it contradicts what their remedy says in the letter. At this point, what they're testing above is an open circuit failure and that is the only way they are replacing a "damaged" mat. If the mat is torn but still functional, it is compromised. However that can only be determined if you open the mat.
All these Q&As...that is why I write...taking the car into the GM dealership is Dum De Dum...and no matter what instructions are given, u will have to rely on the literacy of the service tech....EGAD!
marlboromike is offline  
Reply

  Saturn Sky Forums: Saturn Sky Forum > Saturn Sky Discussion > Technical Saturn Sky Discussion

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Saturn Sky Forums: Saturn Sky Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome