Saturn Sky Forum banner

Greasable Bushing install (pictorial)

33K views 109 replies 28 participants last post by  Elff 
#1 ·
So, because the stock front sway bar bushings tend to squeak if you drive in cold weather, and when exposed to salt from the roads, I thought I should do something about it. While you can get greasable bushings in the right size for the Sly Redline/Solstice GXP, you can't get them with the grease fittings in the caps. So I figured I would do it myself. The following is a tutorial on how.

First you need the right tools and parts. In this case a 1/8" drill bit, a #7 drill bit, Drill, Appropriate tap, loctite (I used red for strength), Zerk fittings with a short thread, and the right bushings. I got mine from Summit Raceing for only $15.99.




First, the originals must come off. You can see where I greased them about a month ago.


Remove the cap with a 13mm socket. Then remove the old rubber bushing at the split.


Punch the cap to keep the drill from roaming. Make sure you are dead center to align with the internal grease groove.


You can see the dimple here.


Drill first with a small drill, it is much easier.


Then the #7 drill.


Align the bottom of the bushing with the metal cap.


Drill the bushing through the cap.


Note the alignment with the hole and the grease groove.
 
See less See more
11
#2 ·
Chamfore the hole so the grease fitting will center itself.


Tap the hole with the 1/4" tap.


Completed threaded hole.


Use a little loctite to ensure the Zerk fitting stays put.


It only takes a drop on the threads.


Install.



Note how it protrudes? No worries, the bushing is plenty thick enough.


Install the bushing and check alignment. I purposely drilled offset to make greasing the nipple on the car easier.

 
#3 ·
Plenty of clearance.



Install the bushing on the sway bar. Make sure you orient the bushing so the hole is in the right spot with the cap.


Complete the install.


Add grease. Note that I did not add grease to the inside of the bushing before install. You can if you like, but it will be messier.


You can see here that the grease will squeeze out as you pump it through the Zerk fitting.



All done. It took about 45 minutes start to finish, longer to do this tutorial.

There is no squeaking, and it might even handle slightly better.

Hope you found this interesting.

Jim :cool:
 
#4 · (Edited)
Jim,
Great post and very well done.
I am going to put the old caps back on all 4.
I like them better. I'll repaint them 1st black.
I do not like the slots in the new caps.
All bushings installed see below.
Good winter job to regrease.
LLLFLY
 
#6 · (Edited)
Great job

I am just to old and lazy, Energy sells and kit that come with the work done, grease fitting and cap. I also bought their grease for their bushings. undue 8 bolts front and rear, change bushings and grease. Your job does look better with the factory cap. GREAT JOB
 
  • Like
Reactions: genedk43
#7 ·
I am just to old and lazy, Energy sells and kit that come with the work done, grease fitting and cap. I also bought their grease for their bushings. undue 8 bolts, change bushings and grease. Your job does look better with the factory cap. GRAT JOD
Thanks!

By the way, it is 4 bolts, and the kit they sall is not a direct bolt in replacement. It offsets the bushing 1/4". Probably not an issue, but some think it might be.

Jim :cool:
 
#11 ·
Summit Confusion

I don't know if all the Kappas are the same but mine is the same as JimVonaden's which is Summit part # 4.5193R and they are 32mm dia I think, compared to these 24mm dia.
Still even more confusion when looking at the Summit site, but I'm pretty sure these are NOT for our cars.
 
#12 ·
I don't know if all the Kappas are the same but mine is the same as JimVonaden's which is Summit part # 4.5193R and they are 32mm dia I think, compared to these 24mm dia.
Still even more confusion when looking at the Summit site, but I'm pretty sure these are NOT for our cars.
The site is a bit misleading in that the NA and the GXP/RL can't possibly be the same part number due to the different size of bars.

Jim :cool:
 
#13 · (Edited)
I just install on my 08 redline.
34mm 4.5193R Front
27mm 9.5162R Rear
Luke lube red grease
Fit like a glove.
08 R/L
LLLFLY
 
#16 ·
My NA Front bar measures 1.07" (27.18 mm) and the Rear measures .995" (25.27mm) I'm guessing the small difference is the manufacturing tolerance between bars and you can just call them 1 inch (25.40mm) The link MM sent me shows a number 9.5160R is for 15/16 " inside diameter (.9375" or 23.8mm) I'm not a mechanic but it sounds like with all +/- tolerances involved, the 15/16 would be fine for the Front & Rear(for a N/A)
 
#20 ·
Mike,

If you own a RL then my part listed is the correct part. There is no current correct part available with the grease fitting in the bracket. There is, however, one that is close, but elevates the sway bar away from the frame about 1/4". This may or may not be an issue!

Jim :cool:
 
#22 ·
I like the idea to take them out over winter to regrease and inspection on ea.
and reinstall.
Good PM.
LLLFLY
 
#31 ·





See the gap between the bushing and the bar? Thats a fail as far as performance upgrade goes.

If this is a case of the bushing being too big on the outside then there ain't enough smushing going on.

Seriously this is a sign of someone not knowing what they are doing, fine it's his car he can hose it up if he wants to but unsuspecting readers should be warned that this is not the proper part! The fact that it was stickied makes me wonder if that person even had a clue or if they were duped by some pretty pictures. Thanks for the pictures by the way they clearly show what I mean.

Oh check out where it looks like the paint has been worn off the frame in the first picture, I would bet the original bushing was rubbing there and that is the source of the squeak.
 
#34 ·
Do us all a favor and supply the RIGHT part number since it seems to bother you so much!

The post was about the process, if you don't want to use the part number I used, don't.

No need to get all pissy and insulting about it.

Jim :cool:
 
#37 ·
I have had some inquiries in PM and figure if a few have questions, then there are others that have the same question but just didn't ask. So here goes:

The simple fact a thread is sticky'd does NOT constitute Skyroadster's endorsement of the thread. All the "buyer beware" metaphors that apply to non-stick threads apply to stick threads.

The exchange of information is what the forum is all about. An OP provides some info on how to accomplish a task. Other members provide their inputs to the process. That's the way it's supposed to work.

If someone has a technical issue with a procedure or part, and truly desires to help the community, then please present the info in a manner that HELPS the community. Calling members names and arguing about stuff not germane to the TECHNICAL issue only undermines the help. It undermines the counter argument. Members will dismiss the counter argument as just an excuse to flame a member. Are you here to take pot shots at members? Are are you here to help the membership as a whole?

There is concern amongst some members that the bushing in the OP effort is sized incorrectly and will result in bad performance...or worse. I'm not a suspension expert, so I cannot provide any kind of expert commentary on the veracity of either side's claim. All I know is some members, who otherwise appear to be knowledgeable and informed, have expressed concern. But that's the beauty of this forum. They are free to express that concern and add to the tech knowledge of the community. So all members can read/hear about it.

As for the stick: The process is nicely described with pics and guidance. It adds value. And now that "experts" have added their concerns, the guidance is improved. Better value! Let's keep it stuck. Buyer Beware!
 
#39 ·
I'd like to say thanks to the OP, AND thanks to those that warned about the correct parts. The discussion prompted me to read up on sway bars and realize a lack of them (or weak OEM bars, I haven't gone under to check yet) are probably part of why my expy sways all over the place, but the wifes Tundra corners more like a sporty sedan than a truck :)

I have mixed thoughts on the thread and the arguement...

The OP solved his problem (squeaks) and hasn't noticed a difference in handling. That makes the thread a success in mine and likely most peoples minds. It's a good how to thread. Only the limited bushing selections available keeps this mod from ALSO being a performance increase! :thumbs:*

Most likely the bushing gap is not letting the bar shift or flex any more than the stock crap rubber bushing. If you look at the before picks, even the crappy rubber bushing has a heck of a gap there with grease crammed in.

I'm thinking he prob hasn't seen any noticeable performance decrease, but short of letting the Stig run laps in each configuration, we will never know for sure :) :thumbs:
 
#40 · (Edited)
Here's some added "value" from an expert...

The bushing is the wrong size.
The clamp is the wrong type clamp.
The grease fitting protrudes too far into the clamp.
These three things WILL absolutely effect the operation of the bar.

A bushing that is too loose is actually worse than one that's too tight. Here's the facts behind that statement... For an (anti)sway bar to work properly it has to be held firmly at the bushings/mounts. Without those points held in place, the entire bar just moves up and down and doesn't transfer any of the force to the other side. What's happening, whether the OP wants to admit it or not, is when the one end of the bar goes up, it then moves in the loose bushing until it hits the side, then on the other side of the car the bar will push the other direction in that bushing, again, until it hits it's side of the loose bushing. After all that movement, THEN the other side's arm of the bar will finally start to push on the other suspension arm. If the bushing is too tight, it's actually better because there is such a small amount of rotation at those points binding is not really a big issue when you're talking about performance of the bar. This also will give you an idea of how much of an issue a loose fitting bushing will be. A small amount of play at the bushing point is a big deal because of the small amount of movement at those points compared to the large movement at the arm ends.

Clamps- Urethane bushings are not supposed to be used in rubber bushing clamps. Those clamps are wrong for those bushings. That Urethane bushing should be in a flat bar type of clamp, not a dished one like rubber bushings use.

Grease fitting- that grease fitting IS extending too far into the center of the clamp. The only thing keeping it from hitting is the fact the clamp is dished.

Soooo, I'm not saying the OP's post has no value, but I am saying there is a lot of misinformation in it for a supposedly informative and educational thread. The OP may not be able to tell it's not working as well as it should, or was originally designed, but that doesn't mean it isn't. And no, I haven't done any research to find the correct sizes for an NA Kappa, but it's not that hard to do. As another member mentioned, all you have to do is measure your bar and then find the proper bushing by size. I've put Urethane bushings on hundreds of cars, and probably half a dozen Kappa's. It is possible to do the install properly. I would have to say this particular car has not had a proper install. Which comes around to my statement that for an install thread, it's best if it's actually a proper install than is being shown.


OK, I just looked at my Summit orders and found the last set I bought. '08 Sky Redline, stock FE3 bars front and back. Front bar was 33.3mm, the proper Energy Suspension bushing set was this one...

Energy Suspension 9-5167R - Energy Suspension Sway Bar Bushings - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Rear bar was 25.4mm, this is the proper Urethane bushing kit...

Energy Suspension 9-5129R - Energy Suspension Sway Bar Bushings - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Using a 33mm bushing for a 33.3mm bar is the right sizing. Using a 25mm bushing for a 25.4mm bar is also the correct sizing.

On my car I have Z0K bars, the front is the same diameter but the rear is 27.2mm. This is the proper bushing kit...

Energy Suspension 9-5162R - Energy Suspension Sway Bar Bushings - Overview - SummitRacing.com

FE2 LE5's show fronts as 27.2mm and rears as 24.2mm. I believe these are the proper bushings for those cars...

Front-
Energy Suspension 9-5162R - Energy Suspension Sway Bar Bushings - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Rear-
Energy Suspension 9-5160G - Energy Suspension Sway Bar Bushings - Overview - SummitRacing.com

I'm not positive on the LE5/FE2 cars, but I can guarantee the numbers I've posted here are correct for FE3 and Z0K bars. Perfect fit, perfect operation and no squeaking. Using a bushing that's .2mm or .3mm tighter is better than .7mm or 1.0mm too loose. And don't forget to use the clamps they come with, they're meant for those particular bushings. The stock clamps are for rubber bushings.
 
#42 ·
OK, I just looked at my Summit orders and found the last set I bought. [...]
I've stayed out of this so far, but I have to respectfully disagree with your choice for the front LNF bar bushing, or at least throw in a caveat... the 9-5167 busing and bracket is shorter than the stock bushing and pulls the bar closer to the mounting crossmember by about 3/16-1/4". This could 'pre-load' the sway bar and have equally untoward effects.

As far as I know, no-one has found the perfectly-sized replacement for the fronts on our cars.
 
#45 · (Edited)
So if anyone is wondering why I hardly ever post on here, this is why.

I actually heard about this thread on another forum and came here to read it. I posted my thoughts because there were several people posting in this asking for the correct information and they weren't getting it. My post had correct information and facts. Information and facts gleaned from over 35 years of actually working on things like this. I designed my own sway bar setup for a car I autocrossed in the '80's, that was one of my first learning experiences/experiments with swaybars in particular. I tried some things that I'd learned from my time working on a race team at the Indy 500, some worked, some didn't. One of the things I learned from that first setup was what happens when your sway bars are TOO stiff, understeer! These things I learned through training, experience and of course trial and error.

What I posted here is factual information. I just don't understand why some people just want to argue things like this with me. I don't know everything, no one does. But I do know a sh!tload about stuff like this. My life since the minute I was born was and is surrounded by cars and either watching my Dad working on them or doing it myself. I know cars. Sorry Tomato, but your theory doesn't hold water in reality. I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT THE 3/16 OF AN INCH HAS NO EFFECT IN THIS SITUATION. It will NOT wear out "very" quickly. You can argue all you want, but it will not change the reality of the situation.

For those that take my advice and use the part numbers I've posted, if they wear out "very quickly" send them to me and I'll pay twice what you paid for them.


Oh, BTW, it is absolutely about physics. Geometry is a part of physics. You can't understand physics if you don't first understand geometry. The reason I said physics is because this situation is all about FORCE. My point was you have to understand where the lines of force are in this situation. Geometry obviously is a factor, but it's the force we're concerned with here. You can change the geometry and not have a meaningful amount of force change. Here's a VERY simple analogy. Put your elbow on the table like you're going to arm wrestle. Now slide your elbow across the table an inch or even two. Your arm (sway bar) still has the same angle, we aren't changing that in the actual sway bar situation, you're just moving the point at which it touches the table (frame). Until you go to an extreme amount of movement across the table, that inch or so makes little to no difference in the forces placed on your arm. Now go one step further, pick your elbow up off the table just a 1/4 of an inch. That absolutely will have an effect on the force your arm is taking. THAT'S what I'm talking about with the bushing slop vs. actual bushing location.
 
#46 · (Edited)
So if anyone is wondering why I hardly ever post on here, this is why.
Hey, sorry, not trying to challenge your manhood here. Just trying to have a discussion.

Geometry obviously is a factor, but it's the force we're concerned with here. You can change the geometry and not have a meaningful amount of force change. Here's a VERY simple analogy. Put your elbow on the table like you're going to arm wrestle. Now slide your elbow across the table an inch or even two. Your arm (sway bar) still has the same angle, we aren't changing that in the actual sway bar situation, you're just moving the point at which it touches the table (frame). Until you go to an extreme amount of movement across the table, that inch or so makes little to no difference in the forces placed on your arm.
I think you are definitely missing my point here. Your analogy is completely correct when talking about force tangential to the suspension mount point. Moving the bushing mount will not affect that very much.

I, however, am talking about the forces perpendicular to the mount points and to the arc of travel. Looking at my diagram, the red arc does not parallel the (original) blue arc. At the bottom part of suspension travel the sway bar end is "stretched" with the shorter mount, and "compressed" at the top part of the travel. That has GOT to add additional wear to the bushings. Now I agree that my diagram is exaggerated, and you can argue that the effect is not great, but you can't argue that it's not there.

I have those exact same mounts, by the way, but have not mounted them because (a) my originals do not (yet?) squeak :), and (b) I am concerned about the above.

OK, so I don't want to get into an all out escalation here and (apparently) piss you off even more. You've made your point, I've made mine, let's just agree to disagree. Pax?

EDIT: Adding link to new post on Sol Forum, giving personal experience: http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f11/suspension-creaking-colder-weather-70770/#post1067203
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top