New Sway Bar Bushings or Upgrade to Z0K - Saturn Sky Forums: Saturn Sky Forum
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post #1 of 6 (permalink) Old 07-10-2019, 04:43 PM Thread Starter
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New Sway Bar Bushings or Upgrade to Z0K

Well, seems I'm keeping the Sky . With the squeaking/creaking going from just a cold weather deal over to the warmer season now it seems it is also time for some new sway bar bushings. I was looking at purchasing a grease-able front and rear set from DDM then stubled across their Z0K suspension.

So the question is, should I just buy the new grease-able fittings or upgrade the sway bars at this time?

If upgrading the sway bars, how easy is the install for an average DIY?

What are the benefits to going to the Z0K suspension on my Redline?

Keep in mind, this is mostly used as a spirited daily driver during the summer. No autocross at present.

Thanks!

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post #2 of 6 (permalink) Old 07-10-2019, 04:51 PM
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There are people who will tell you that it is essential to make the car as stiff as you possibly can. I am not one of them.
If you feel like you have too much body roll in corners then you should maybe look into stiffer bars. Otherwise, leave it alone.
I will speak automotive heresy here and say that I can control my NA better than my RL because it has a more compliant suspension.
Our roads are not glass-smooth, and stiffer suspensions tend to bounce around, reducing control.
Do you have DDM's ProBeam? If you don't and want to make a step-change in handling, get one of those.

John
Lexington, KY
Sky NA 2007 Midnight Blue
Sky RL 2008 Carbon Flash - Naked
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post #3 of 6 (permalink) Old 07-10-2019, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnWR View Post
There are people who will tell you that it is essential to make the car as stiff as you possibly can. I am not one of them.
If you feel like you have too much body roll in corners then you should maybe look into stiffer bars. Otherwise, leave it alone.
I will speak automotive heresy here and say that I can control my NA better than my RL because it has a more compliant suspension.
Our roads are not glass-smooth, and stiffer suspensions tend to bounce around, reducing control.
Do you have DDM's ProBeam? If you don't and want to make a step-change in handling, get one of those.
I agree with you, John, on the probeam (and raise you a backbone) but those DO make the car stiffer, letting the suspension do it's job yet keeping the wheels planted.

To the OP, I (and others) have changed the rear swaybar to the Z0K unit. It reduces understeer without affecting the ride noticeably. I did it myself, though it took much longer than I expected. Two worst parts were dropping the rear of the exhaust (getting the rubber hangars off) and then the 'bent nail puzzle' of getting the old bar out and then the new bar back in! Tip: take the wheel off and then jack the hub to move it up or down as needed to finagle the bars out/in.

As for the poly bushings, I have them for my car but have never put them in. It's an easy job, but I was worried about affecting the ride more than the swaybar itself

Owner of "Campbelle", a Brazen 2008 GXP ... with mods piling up...
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post #4 of 6 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 10:21 AM
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I agree with you, John, on the probeam (and raise you a backbone) but those DO make the car stiffer, letting the suspension do it's job yet keeping the wheels planted........
I understand the backbone, but didn't like its effect. After installing the ProBeam the handling was noticeably better as it was more stable and more predictable. It actually made the NA better than the RL.
After installing a backbone I thought the car was less predictable over uneven pavement. It was probably better on smooth pavement, but the negative outweighed the positive for the driving I do on the roads that I have.
Realistically, the stiffer car was handling "better" in that it was reacting more quickly to inputs but, unfortunately, some of those inputs were rough pavement and the reactions to those were bad.

Just like I said about the Z0K, if there is a deficiency with handling that you perceive, change what you need to to make it go away.
The bottom line is to do what it takes to have a car that you like to drive, and not worry about what other people say that you should do.

John
Lexington, KY
Sky NA 2007 Midnight Blue
Sky RL 2008 Carbon Flash - Naked
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post #5 of 6 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JohnWR View Post
Just like I said about the Z0K, if there is a deficiency with handling that you perceive, change what you need to to make it go away.
The bottom line is to do what it takes to have a car that you like to drive, and not worry about what other people say that you should do.
Agreed, I just wondered what would make the car better. Might as well improve where I can. Will probably just go with the bushings, but I had given thought to the backbone on several occasions. You're the first that I heard didn't like the backbone. Pavement can be pretty rough here at times in AB. On one of our "freeways" I feel constantly bounced out of my seat!

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post #6 of 6 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Pilate View Post
Agreed, I just wondered what would make the car better. Might as well improve where I can. Will probably just go with the bushings, but I had given thought to the backbone on several occasions. You're the first that I heard didn't like the backbone. Pavement can be pretty rough here at times in AB. On one of our "freeways" I feel constantly bounced out of my seat!
I am probably the only one you ever will hear say they don't like the backbone. But I'll repeat that the ProBeam is the best thing available, and should be everyone's first mod.

John
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post #7 of 6 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnWR View Post
After installing a backbone I thought the car was less predictable over uneven pavement. It was probably better on smooth pavement, but the negative outweighed the positive for the driving I do on the roads that I have.
Realistically, the stiffer car was handling "better" in that it was reacting more quickly to inputs but, unfortunately, some of those inputs were rough pavement and the reactions to those were bad.
Completely understandable. On rougher roads the "flex" the backbone removes will dampen those kinds of conditions and react to minor imperfections like that far faster than the suspension can. Thus the suspension has to do very little as the chassis flex compensates for those impacts. A stiffer chassis will transfer those imperfections to the suspension and a stiff suspension won't be able to soak up those imperfections allowing them to upset the car and for the tires to lose contact with the road surface. (JohnWR knows this I'm sure...sharing for the OP)

Luckily for me most of the good driving roads in my area are in pretty good condition and so having a stiff chassis and suspension isn't so much of a problem. Just keep in mind that the smoother your driving surface is, the better it is for your suspension to be stiff and body roll kept to a minimum. The rougher your roads, the better it is for your suspension to be softer. You may even find a rough road with a soft suspension will result in better handling than a rough road and stiff suspension.

I will say though, going to serviceable poly bushings even on stock anti-sway bars wouldn't be a bad thing.


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