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post #16 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-18-2009, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by SkySoldier View Post
Last I heard was that GM would continue to build Saturns under contract to Penske. But they would be building the Outlook, Aura, and Vue. That's it.
Adding to that, it was stated that the Saturns "built for Penske" would be through the end of the product's life cycle. The Aura is due to go away after 2010 while the Vue and Outlook were due to end a year or two later. Whether or not GM would continue to "badge" vehicles for Penske after that and thus feed product to compete with Chevy and GMC just makes no business sense.

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post #17 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-18-2009, 10:21 AM
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Yes, where would the GM employees get the loan to buy the plant and continue to make a car that even GM was loosing 10K on every car produced. I find it hard to believe a bank or anyone else would just give them a loan or even GM giving them parts. Plus they would need to rename and rebadge which would cost $$$ so...

They would have better luck buying the old Delorian shop and making Delorians heck they may be profitable.

Then you have to think that Penske owns the rights and already said that kappa's are gone. No brainer there. Also the rest of the GM/Saturn line up will follow. Since Penske is just going to use the Saturn name and import cool european fuel sippers into the market and kill off the GM product all together.

We all have to face the fact that the kappa was doomed long ago, but with so few Opel GT's made that means the rest of the world is going to want our cars in the future. I remember Germany did not get the Fiat Spyders 2000's from 81-86. and in 89-90 I could buy them 4 at a time in the junk yard for 1K. I would fix one up with all the parts from the others or order parts from Italy. LOL! We would sell them to Germany for 10-30K per car and that is in 1989-1991. So it will probably not be America that wants the Kappas as much as Europe in the future about 8-10 years. The newer models will be the Holy Grail for collectors since there will be so few.

I only saw one 1986 Fiat Spyder 2000 it was Silver and it was georgous had a few body line changes, wheels interior different from the 1984 which had minor changes. It was in mint condition (owned by a banker) It had 35 miles on it. They wanted a mint for it and the Germans paid 50K for it in 1990.

I had a 1984 in light blue Fiat Spyder which had the new interior it was cool, but I traded it dumbly for 1990 Ford Probe GT to a bad dude!

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post #18 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-18-2009, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by compdoc777 View Post
I find it hard to believe a bank or anyone else would just give them a loan or even GM giving them parts. Plus they would need to rename and rebadge which would cost $$$.

They would have better luck buying the old Delorian shop and making Delorians heck they may be profitable.
And with a Flux Capacitor, they could travel to the future and see what tomorrow brings!

Let's just say we all get together and buy the Wilmington plant.
We use up whatever supplies are there and build 100 or so Kappa cars.

Can't call them Pontiacs, or Solstices or Saturns or Skys or Opels or Daewoos. All those trademark names belong to GM.

Now car # 101 is complete except for an engine. Who is going to sell us Ecotec engines? GM has 'em and they know how to configure them for the Kappas. Great. They want 5 grand apiece for them. Oops. The transmission is from a Hummer. They don't make those anymore, but they will . . . for 5 grand apiece. We need more foglights. Easy one, they're the same as in the Grand Prix . . . Pontiac. Oy. And the hydroformed body panels. Where do we get those? And the rear ends and the door handles and every part that is not made in Wilmington, Delaware.

The Wilmington plant assembles the cars. The cars are made in a hundred different places that are deeply rooted in the GM network. Buying the plant essentially accomplishes nothing.
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post #19 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-18-2009, 05:18 PM
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From Lil'Oggi:

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The Wilmington plant assembles the cars. The cars are made in a hundred different places that are deeply rooted in the GM network. Buying the plant essentially accomplishes nothing.
No truer words have been spoken concerning this situation.

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post #20 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-18-2009, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Lil'Oggi View Post
The transmission is from a Hummer. They don't make those anymore, but they will . . . for 5 grand apiece.

What car has a Hummer transmission?


... and those worldwide parts suppliers will sell to anyone who comes up with the cold hard cash after the GM pipeline shuts down. Money talks, BS walks.
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post #21 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-18-2009, 10:55 PM
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What car has a Hummer transmission?
Yours . . . if you have a stick.
  • The rear axle and differential are from the Sigma-based Cadillac CTS
  • The interior storage bin is from the Cadillac XLR
  • The passenger's side airbag, steering column, and exterior and interior door handles are from the Chevrolet Cobalt
  • The backup lights are from the GMC Envoy (Solstice)
  • The heating, ventilating, and air conditioning modules are from the Hummer H3
  • The front fog lamp assembly is from the Pontiac Grand Prix (Solstice)
  • The steering wheel is from the Pontiac Torrent, Pontiac G5, Chevrolet Corvette, Chevrolet Malibu
  • The 2.4 L Ecotec engine is shared with the Pontiac G6, Chevrolet Malibu, and Chevrolet HHR
  • The five-speed manual transmission is from the Hummer H3, GMC Canyon, and Chevrolet Colorado
  • The five-speed automatic is from the Cadillac CTS, STS, and SRX
  • The side view mirrors and AC vents are from the Fiat Barchetta
  • The seat frames are from the previous generation Opel Corsa



Fiat Barchetta with mirrors.

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post #22 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-18-2009, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Lil'Oggi View Post
Yours . . . if you have a stick.
Nope, got the French transmission.


Thanks for the list.
The steering wheel in the Kappas is the same as the Corvette...
and the Malibu, G5, Torrent and Saturn Vue?
Somehow it seems that just aint right!
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post #23 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-18-2009, 11:26 PM
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Nope, got the French transmission.


[/I]
French transmission?????????????????
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post #24 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-19-2009, 06:48 AM
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Dream on and after a while look around and see that it was all a dream....Skip...
Would have to agree its a little out of reach on the employees, but never, never under cut the power of dreams. Everything is early on and their is always tomorrows reality that is someones dream today and its not like the plant has to be built again. Looking at it in a different way, are we the lucky ones that get to enjoy the ending to a never ending story??? The 2.4 motor will be around for a long time. Transmissions also and just like the guys driving 55 chevys and eailer years, I"m sure the ones that want to keep our few going (the skys) will win over the changing time. Besides,, NOW we do have cars that not everyone can have. Makes them even more special. Always a good in everything if you look hard enough to find it.

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post #25 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-19-2009, 09:39 AM
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... GM was loosing 10K on every car produced.
I realise that everyone is entitled to their opinion but please tell me where you got the facts to back up this claimed loss? Or are you just saying what everyone else has been saying? If it is true then I would really like to see the facts on how the 10K loss was arrived at ... thanks!

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post #26 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-19-2009, 12:13 PM
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I realise that everyone is entitled to their opinion but please tell me where you got the facts to back up this claimed loss? Or are you just saying what everyone else has been saying? If it is true then I would really like to see the facts on how the 10K loss was arrived at ... thanks!
That number has been tossed around for a couple years now. No one has ever produced any backup. I find it extremely hard to believe, too.

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post #27 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-19-2009, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by JustMike View Post
I realise that everyone is entitled to their opinion but please tell me where you got the facts to back up this claimed loss? Or are you just saying what everyone else has been saying? If it is true then I would really like to see the facts on how the 10K loss was arrived at ... thanks!
Let me google that for you

Solstice/Sky ALREADY done? | WebRidesTV Blog

Why would a seemingly perfect chassis become a financial burden to GM? They claim that each Kappa car was being sold at a $10,000 loss due to the massive labor costs (each Kappa car is still largely handbuilt) as well as expensive materials (hydroforming process… also used by the Corvette).

Report: GM hits brakes on Solstice/Sky replacement: AutoWeek Magazine

With GM losing billions, there's no room for money-losing programs. And the Solstice and Sky platform, named Kappa, reportedly loses an eye-popping $10,000 per car. That's on cars where the sticker price starts around $20,000.

GM Ices Kappa; Losing $10k Per Car on Solstice and Sky | The Truth About Cars

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Last edited by compdoc777; 06-19-2009 at 12:58 PM.
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post #28 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-19-2009, 01:48 PM
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Let me google that for you

Solstice/Sky ALREADY done? | WebRidesTV Blog

Why would a seemingly perfect chassis become a financial burden to GM? They claim that each Kappa car was being sold at a $10,000 loss due to the massive labor costs (each Kappa car is still largely handbuilt) as well as expensive materials (hydroforming process… also used by the Corvette).

Report: GM hits brakes on Solstice/Sky replacement: AutoWeek Magazine

With GM losing billions, there's no room for money-losing programs. And the Solstice and Sky platform, named Kappa, reportedly loses an eye-popping $10,000 per car. That's on cars where the sticker price starts around $20,000.

GM Ices Kappa; Losing $10k Per Car on Solstice and Sky | The Truth About Cars
I is really very apparent how hand built Kappas are when one really starts scratching the surface of the car. If Bowling Green built Corvettes this poorly the Corvette would be dead by now. They used to be this bad but as sales flagged and owners bitched, GM "fixed" Corvette.

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post #29 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-19-2009, 04:00 PM
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This $10K loss concept has all come from one post at GMInsider.com.
All the other internet "info" on this has used this as their "source".

Unfortunately, the original article on GMInsider never said how or from where that number came from. It just stated this as a "known fact".

At the time, they were the only ones who "knew" it. Now everyone "knows" it because it has been repeated so many times.

I'm not saying that it isn't true (it certainly COULD be true), but I've never seen it attributed to any kind of reliable source.

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post #30 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-19-2009, 04:10 PM
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This $10K loss concept has all come from one post at GMInsider.com.
All the other internet "info" on this has used this as their "source".

Unfortunately, the original article on GMInsider never said how or from where that number came from. It just stated this as a "known fact".

At the time, they were the only ones who "knew" it. Now everyone "knows" it because it has been repeated so many times.

I'm not saying that it isn't true (it certainly COULD be true), but I've never seen it attributed to any kind of reliable source.
Exactly. And GMInsider is nothing more than a forum like this. It is not an official GM site. So it's still hearsay until you can cite an official GM source...

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