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Thread: Sketchy Saturn Sky, Should I Buy? Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
08-20-2018 02:13 AM
Robotech
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeanYellow View Post
There are dozens of posts like those, moron.
MeanYellow, I understand you're new so you may not know this but we don't tolerate name calling here. Check it please. I'm not editing the post for now just to leave it as an example.

Also the person you're calling moron is a GM engineer who worked on the Kappa project...and has a point.

Let's say there are dozens of posts...even 5 dozen (which there aren't that many)...You're talking 60 cars out of 90,000, and we'll round it up to 100...you're talking 0.1% of production. Having researched all the complaints on the NHTSA's website from the start of production until Feb 2016 I know the number of complaints for transmission issues is FAR less than the number for the Passenger Presence Sensor it is unreasonable to believe the problem was as large in scale as that one.

Therefore, DavHamm makes a very valid point. When compared to production numbers and issues that have warranted a recall, the number of transmission "failures" is relatively small. As Davhamm pointed out (and is often the case with most consumers) unless you have analyzed each and every one of those threads to determine whether or not the transmission was the root of the failure like Davhamm did with the five threads presented, you cannot accurately say that all those posts are genuine transmission failures.
08-18-2018 10:15 PM
cityboy I wonder if a couple of those owners are within the same year because it wa totaled then sold at auction to another to another

Would be nice to see the report
08-18-2018 09:53 PM
davhamm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisF12000 View Post
Hello! I have been in love with these cars for years, but they've always been out of reach for me. I am 18 now, and I currently have a Pontiac Grand Prix that I am wanted to replace now. I found a Saturn Sky for sale, within my price range, but it has some dirty little secrets under its name. I am going to try and pursue it regardless of the issues that will be mentioned here, and I need advice and/or opinions.

It is a 2007 Saturn Sky base, and it's a soft top and silver. I love it. There is a catch though... it's been totaled. I ordered a carfax on it, and back in 2009 the car was totaled. It was obviously rebuilt, and continued to be driven for 8 more years. It has been through 6 owners (yikes!) and has about 100,000 miles on it. My father is leaning towards running far away from this thing, but I've rationalized with myself that since it's been driven so long it's gotta be fine. It also had a "minor to moderate" front end collision which a body shop repaired as well. The top looks good, interior, exterior, everything looks good. It's just "tainted" with the salvage title. I do not care about value, as I will drive it until the wheels fall off. Insurance won't be too bad based on quotes, but whether or not they'll insure this specific car is up to an inspection done by my insurance company. I also need to see if my bank/credit union will give me an auto loan for the car, which will be paid off within a year regardless of how long I finance it.

I really just need your all's opinions and advice. I know this is a gamble, I know it could put me through a lot of crap. I will get it inspected by a mechanic.
Wondering what you decided?


Still surprised that these POC cars have such a following, and even more surprised that so many forum members still continue to own them and drive them, even though apparently every thing fails at much higher rates than other vehicles.
08-17-2018 11:44 PM
MeanYellow There are dozens of posts like those, moron.
08-17-2018 04:44 PM
davhamm Exactly, 1 post trans went bad, another post trans shifts hard but appears fine, OP never returned assume trans was fine. Another posts says
Assuming you have an auto. Its due to one of the following:

MAF dirty
O2 sensor failing or failed
Camshaft servo failing or failed
Which are not the transmission,

Another one was a bad MAF again not the transmission.
and the last post was the TCM and MAF, trans was fine but hey I'll give you the TCM as a trans issue.

So of the 5 posts you linked to and only 2 had a bad transmission. So over 10 years you come up with 1 bad trans (1 bad TCM) ? I am sure there are others, but the trans on this car is not a big failure issue.
08-17-2018 03:30 PM
wspohn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky_Pilot View Post
Did it have 6 horses pulling it
I recall times when I had one girlfriend pushing....
08-17-2018 03:07 PM
Sky_Pilot
Quote:
Originally Posted by marlboromike View Post
I REMEMBER MY FIRST CAR...... LOL
Did it have 6 horses pulling it
08-17-2018 02:30 PM
MeanYellow
Quote:
Originally Posted by davhamm View Post
Really, have not heard of many Trans issues, limited OEM electronic issues
You must not read this forum very much:

https://www.skyroadster.com/forums/f24/transmission-problems-breakdown-38735/

https://www.skyroadster.com/forums/f2/hard-downshifts-automatic-59794/

https://www.skyroadster.com/forums/f5/automatic-jerking-while-downshifting-38659/

https://www.skyroadster.com/forums/f5/transmission-101-a-26994/

https://www.skyroadster.com/forums/f5/problems-back-new-codes-57561/
08-17-2018 01:38 PM
Robotech
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnWR View Post
Considering that forum participation represents a handful (3 to 4%) of total vehicles produced, any data collected here is likely to be wildly skewed.
I know that many owners have experienced only minor problems, or none at all, so the actual failure rate may be 1 to 2%, or even less, of the total production.
This is the precise reason why I did the study I did that lead to the recall. Even if we had 100 owners on the forum experiencing the PPS failure, you're talking 0.3% of total production. In addition, you're only getting a sample from owners of the car who are enthusiasts...or at least enjoy the car to the point of joining a forum. You figure most owners probably never seen this forum or even the Facebook groups and so any sample taken even combining those two groups is going to be a minority sample.

You can't tell if something is really a problem based on a handful of complaints but it is easy to jump to that conclusion. In the case of the PPS sensor, it still wasn't a huge number of cars but the fact that the CTS had the recall done yet had a lower percentage of cars produced exhibit the problem is what convinced me (and apparently NHTSA and GM) that there were enough failures to warrant a recall.

Honestly, my GMC truck has had more issues than my Sky (well, the issues I wasn't a huge contributor to at least) yet mechanically it is still very reliable. Lights are out in the dash, the door control panels are literally falling off, I had my gauges stop registering (a very common problem in these older trucks actually), and a bad water pump, radiator, power steering box/pump, and failed alternator. At 225K miles and 14 years though, I'm good with just that.

Things don't last forever and our cars are hitting that 10 year mark. The mileage may be low, but NOT using a car can create as many technical problems as using it a lot. People also forget that. All things considered, I don't think our cars experience any more nor any less problems than any other car out there. I had people tell me not to turbo an engine with 70K miles on it. It's not going to last. I'm at 128K now and the engine is STILL strong as the day I put the turbo on even though I have almost doubled the mileage.
08-16-2018 07:37 PM
davhamm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnWR View Post
Actually I will argue with that, unless you want to paint every GM product as being equally fragile/not durable/unreliable.
The components and modules came from the GM parts bin, and are no more likely to fail in Kappas than in any of the rest of the models that they are used in.
Door handles may be a legitimate gripe, but are hardly a reason to condemn the cars as undependable.
Ditto with the Airbag PPS, especially since Robotech's push for a recall has been successful.

We get an inflated sense of problems because the enthusiast owners that have been on this forum report any problem or concern.
Considering that forum participation represents a handful (3 to 4%) of total vehicles produced, any data collected here is likely to be wildly skewed.
I know that many owners have experienced only minor problems, or none at all, so the actual failure rate may be 1 to 2%, or even less, of the total production.
I have two Kappas with a combined 180k miles that have had one failed solenoid and one failed PPS between them, and I don't consider either of those problems to be extraordinary especially since the PPS failure was in a car that had been wrecked.
Its not just a Kappa thing, all specialty forums fall into that trap.

I really wonder, MM how many years have you had your car, how many miles, what all have you had to fix?
08-16-2018 07:35 PM
davhamm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jshines View Post
What in the world are some of you guys smoking?

If your son came to you and laid out this plan to buy this car with all its issues AND the fact you can just take one other passenger and maybe a gallon of milk and then on top of it all he’s going to finance it, you would still tell your kid “Go ahead son, sounds like a great idea….”

I don’t think I could say that to him with a straight face…
I don't see a problem with a small 2 seater, heck he can't drive 5 kids around to distract him etc... Not sure what issues the car has had, I have not read any issues with this car.

Now the financing and paying off in a year, guess I would need to know his plan, maybe he has a great low interest loan and an investment that pays him better than the loan.

Who knows what's up with his Grand Prix.

Not a lot of info to make any kind of call on.
08-16-2018 07:16 PM
davhamm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeanYellow View Post
By fragile, he meant "not durable"... as in bad transmissions, bad electronics, bad water pumps, bad solenoids, bad door handles, bad remotes, etc. Hard to argue with that.
Really, have not heard of many Trans issues, limited OEM electronic issues, Yeah the pumps can go but replacements seem to be reliable, door handle is a cheap easy fix, don't know about key fob issues,

I think these cars are as reliable as 05-10 model year vehicles.
08-16-2018 05:49 PM
marlboromike
Quote:
Originally Posted by jshines View Post
What in the world are some of you guys smoking?

If your son came to you and laid out this plan to buy this car with all its issues AND the fact you can just take one other passenger and maybe a gallon of milk and then on top of it all he’s going to finance it, you would still tell your kid “Go ahead son, sounds like a great idea….”

I don’t think I could say that to him with a straight face…
Money is the BEST TEACHER
Nothing like EXPERIENTIAL LEARNING
08-16-2018 05:12 PM
JohnWR
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeanYellow View Post
By fragile, he meant "not durable"... as in bad transmissions, bad electronics, bad water pumps, bad solenoids, bad door handles, bad remotes, etc. Hard to argue with that.
Actually I will argue with that, unless you want to paint every GM product as being equally fragile/not durable/unreliable.
The components and modules came from the GM parts bin, and are no more likely to fail in Kappas than in any of the rest of the models that they are used in.
Door handles may be a legitimate gripe, but are hardly a reason to condemn the cars as undependable.
Ditto with the Airbag PPS, especially since Robotech's push for a recall has been successful.

We get an inflated sense of problems because the enthusiast owners that have been on this forum report any problem or concern.
Considering that forum participation represents a handful (3 to 4%) of total vehicles produced, any data collected here is likely to be wildly skewed.
I know that many owners have experienced only minor problems, or none at all, so the actual failure rate may be 1 to 2%, or even less, of the total production.
I have two Kappas with a combined 180k miles that have had one failed solenoid and one failed PPS between them, and I don't consider either of those problems to be extraordinary especially since the PPS failure was in a car that had been wrecked.
08-16-2018 02:58 PM
Kansas Bill
Quote:
Originally Posted by jshines View Post
What in the world are some of you guys smoking?

If your son came to you and laid out this plan to buy this car with all its issues AND the fact you can just take one other passenger and maybe a gallon of milk and then on top of it all he’s going to finance it, you would still tell your kid “Go ahead son, sounds like a great idea….”

I don’t think I could say that to him with a straight face…
Were you ever a kid? My first car buy was heavily influenced by my dad. My second was against his opinion, and needed significant maintenance from time to time . Guess which one I fondly recall to this day? But no, that's not the kind of car I recommended to my boys.
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