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Thread: This could set self driving cars back a bit. Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
11-08-2017 12:05 PM
44thSKY This was announced yesterday in Phoenix, AZ. I'm hearing that a recent survey claims 50% of those surveyed are willing to use a driverless service. Expectations are these tests will spread across the US to many like cities in the next 2-3 years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaOB...layer_embedded
09-01-2017 03:01 AM
skersfan I don't need no stinken driverless car to go over California Pass!!!! Heck that is the fun of it, driving, you need to buy an FJ and come with me in October. You could sell that ugly coupe thingy and buy a real vehicle. lol
09-01-2017 01:24 AM
44thSKY
Samsung secures self-driving car permit (part article)

Samsung secures self-driving car permit in California

By Stephen Nellis, Reuters - 5:25 PM ET 8/31/2017 Technology

Aug 31 (Reuters) - Samsung Electronics Co Ltd ( SSNLF ) said on Thursday it has received a permit to test self-driving vehicles in California, marking the entry of the world's largest smart phone maker four months after iPhone maker and arch rival Apple Inc ( AAPL ) received a permit.

With the foray into the U.S. self-driving car landscape, Samsung will jostle with its friends and foes. Besides Apple ( AAPL ) , it will join Waymo, a division of Alphabet Inc ( GOOG ), which supplies the Android operating system that runs on Samsung's phones.


Bob, maybe we will be able to retrofit your FJ Cruiser and take-on the California Pass at Ouray!
08-28-2017 04:40 PM
Rusty Boltz
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbeardsley View Post
Well, if you want to really really get technical...

From the Wikipedia entry for Fuel Cell...
A fuel cell is an electrochemical cell that converts the chemical energy from a fuel into electricity through an electrochemical reaction of hydrogen-containing fuel with oxygen or another oxidizing agent. Fuel cells are different from batteries in requiring a continuous source of fuel and oxygen (usually from air) to sustain the chemical reaction, whereas in a battery the chemical energy comes from chemicals already present in the battery. Fuel cells can produce electricity continuously for as long as fuel and oxygen are supplied.
Since even Wikipedia thinks that "fuel cells are different from batteries", I don't see why you should be surprised that some girl answering the phone at Toyota thinks they are different too.

Could a Toyota fuel cell be rigged to power a Tesla? Probably.
Could Tesla's battery system be used to power a Toyota? Probably.

But neither one is very likely to come to market.
She was probably an employee at a contracted call center. They have a script with answers to all likely questions.
08-21-2017 10:39 AM
davhamm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRL View Post
No, a lead acid battery is a chemical reaction JUST LIKE a Hydrogen/Oxygen fuel cell is a chemical reaction battery. Hydrogen and Oxygen are chemicals as are Lithium and and other chemicals that are used to make a battery.

BUT what discouraged me,other than her understanding of batteries, was that Toyota was afraid to admit that a fuel cell could power a Tesla just as it does the electric Mirai. Both are electric cars that could run of a Hydrogen/Oxygen battery. She was rejecting the idea that a fuel cell could be used to power the Tesla. Pure ignorance of what electricity is. Fuel cell electricity is the same electron flow that windturbines generate
Blue, your one of a very small group of people who would consider a Fuel Cell a battery.

GM and Honda are working on a next generation fuel cell http://www.fleetsandfuels.com/fuels/...-fuel-cell-jv/

One last edit... I always thought a Fuel Cell Volt Convertible would be the ultimate car. Of course a fuel cell is actually kind of noise with the compressor and injector noises. But it would not need to run often only on longer trips.

Here is more about the 100 Chevy Equinox Fuel Cells GM made back in 2007 for Project Driveway mentioned in the above article http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/index...ject-driveway/


You know GM just sold some to the army https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...cks/463896001/
08-20-2017 03:25 PM
mbeardsley
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRL View Post
No, a lead acid battery is a chemical reaction JUST LIKE a Hydrogen/Oxygen fuel cell is a chemical reaction battery. Hydrogen and Oxygen are chemicals as are Lithium and and other chemicals that are used to make a battery.
Well, if you want to really really get technical...

From the Wikipedia entry for Fuel Cell...
A fuel cell is an electrochemical cell that converts the chemical energy from a fuel into electricity through an electrochemical reaction of hydrogen-containing fuel with oxygen or another oxidizing agent. Fuel cells are different from batteries in requiring a continuous source of fuel and oxygen (usually from air) to sustain the chemical reaction, whereas in a battery the chemical energy comes from chemicals already present in the battery. Fuel cells can produce electricity continuously for as long as fuel and oxygen are supplied.
Since even Wikipedia thinks that "fuel cells are different from batteries", I don't see why you should be surprised that some girl answering the phone at Toyota thinks they are different too.

Could a Toyota fuel cell be rigged to power a Tesla? Probably.
Could Tesla's battery system be used to power a Toyota? Probably.

But neither one is very likely to come to market.
08-20-2017 03:12 PM
BlueRL
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbeardsley View Post
Seems to me that you are getting discouraged by semantics. When you say "battery", most people naturally assume you mean a "chemical battery" (since this is by far the most common type), rather than the more generic battery definition of "a device that stores energy for later use" (your gas tank can be considered a "battery" in this case).

It's a lot like asking someone "How many wheels does a motorcycle have?" and then when they answer "2", saying "No, you are wrong - because some people have 3-wheeled motorcycles."
No, a lead acid battery is a chemical reaction JUST LIKE a Hydrogen/Oxygen fuel cell is a chemical reaction battery. Hydrogen and Oxygen are chemicals as are Lithium and and other chemicals that are used to make a battery.

BUT what discouraged me,other than her understanding of batteries, was that Toyota was afraid to admit that a fuel cell could power a Tesla just as it does the electric Mirai. Both are electric cars that could run of a Hydrogen/Oxygen battery. She was rejecting the idea that a fuel cell could be used to power the Tesla. Pure ignorance of what electricity is. Fuel cell electricity is the same electron flow that windturbines generate
08-20-2017 12:08 PM
mbeardsley
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRL View Post
What does discourage me is the lady that answered the phone at the Toyota Mirai website that tried to say that a fuel cell could never be used to power a Tesla because it was NOT a battery. It IS a battery in that it produces electricity from the process of oxygen and hydrogen combining. It can be used with ANY electrically powered device if properly designed and sized. But Toyota is so afraid that someone will steal their market share that they wont even admit to their technology being a battery. The lady said, "If that is what you want to believe". They would not even entertain the thought that a fuel cell of their manufacture might someday power a Tesla. But in talking to Tesla, they readily admitted that a fuel cell would be an upgrade to their EV if it became economical to do it. Toyota will fail and Tesla will succeed. Their attitude will make the difference.
Seems to me that you are getting discouraged by semantics. When you say "battery", most people naturally assume you mean a "chemical battery" (since this is by far the most common type), rather than the more generic battery definition of "a device that stores energy for later use" (your gas tank can be considered a "battery" in this case).

It's a lot like asking someone "How many wheels does a motorcycle have?" and then when they answer "2", saying "No, you are wrong - because some people have 3-wheeled motorcycles."
08-19-2017 10:14 PM
BlueRL Like the "Cruise Control" that RoBo mentioned, The name is not the problem, its function is not the problem. Its the lack of following the rules that IS the problem...i.e. Driver/Pilot error.

I am both a driver and a pilot and as a pilot, it is well known that you fly the plane from take off to landing (actually from starting the engine till shutting it down). Auto pilot is an instrument to make your flight easier, like ailerons were an instrument to make flying easier than wing warping. BUT it does not relieve you of your job. In two pilot aircraft like airliners,the pilot may getup, but NOT without the co pilot being belted in and in control ! !

I am looking into getting a Tesla next year, maybe. This does not discourage me.

What does discourage me is the lady that answered the phone at the Toyota Mirai website that tried to say that a fuel cell could never be used to power a Tesla because it was NOT a battery. It IS a battery in that it produces electricity from the process of oxygen and hydrogen combining. It can be used with ANY electrically powered device if properly designed and sized. But Toyota is so afraid that someone will steal their market share that they wont even admit to their technology being a battery. The lady said, "If that is what you want to believe". They would not even entertain the thought that a fuel cell of their manufacture might someday power a Tesla. But in talking to Tesla, they readily admitted that a fuel cell would be an upgrade to their EV if it became economical to do it. Toyota will fail and Tesla will succeed. Their attitude will make the difference.
08-19-2017 12:14 PM
44thSKY Current announcements in Phoenix this morning about the selfdriving car revolution was Mobileye is putting 100 selfdriving cars on the road. These cars join over 100 selfdriving cars that are already on the Phoenix East Valley streets by Uber and Google.

Other earlier development and announcements was a call was made to East Valley families to volunteer and be screened for acceptability to utilize an early offering of the service for an entire family's needs; ..... all kinds of normal family transportation. My understanding was that a driver would exist in the car, but be available on call for a majority of a normal day's activities. I've not heard anything since the initial announcement.

It has been said repeatedly that by 2020 we will begin seeing the driverless revolution begin. Note, there is a difference between a selfdriving car versus a driverless car. So Blue, it is coming faster that many believe.
10-22-2016 05:27 AM
44thSKY
Predicted two (2) years out, 2018!

Check out this video clip on self-driving cars and the expected/forcasted impact. This might add to the debate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xg03...ature=youtu.be

Click here: Tony Seba on the driverless car disruption - 2016 DSA State of Downtown - YouTube

(one of these links should hopefully work)

Bob, you beat me to it .... I missed the last page of the posting. Sorry.
10-21-2016 09:58 PM
skersfan Here is some interesting information:




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xg03...ature=youtu.be
07-06-2016 06:40 PM
SkyVue2
He said . . . . . IT said

A driver crashed and flipped his Tesla Model X on the Pennsylvania Turnpike last Thursday. Both occupants are OK. He says the autopilot malfunctioned but the carmaker claims that the autopilot mode was not involved.

Full story.
07-06-2016 03:10 PM
Robotech Very true Specter and it has been shown that some of these newer technologies CAN be hacked if they are not properly secured. That's why it comes down to the slow development of this technology over time to figure out what doesn't work and what does work without overly compromising public safety.
07-06-2016 02:47 PM
Specter My biggest concern (Other than giving up control of driving.) is not from the cars themselves, but from those people who think it would be "fun" to spoof them. Stretch a white sheet across the road in front of a traffic hazard. Line those cones you spoke of across the road. Remove the markers that give them direction off the road entirely. Hack into the systems to give them instructions to turn left instead of right when the GPS signals. Etc. It's not really the cars that worry me once the technology gets up to speed. It's all the people who would depend on them to work correctly not matter what. A person driving is much harder to spoof or hack than a computer that only knows to do what it's been told.
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