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  Topic Review (Newest First)
11-06-2019 07:02 AM
mstrjon32
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
As for why we do not offer the 2871 turbo right now, it was simply that we wanted to make it even easier for plug and play installation. We felt we needed to go back and modify some of the parts to do that and make it easier for customers to do. It was originally supposed to be off the market for a couple months, however we became busy with lots of other projects and didn't get back to it. It was never removed from the market because of an issue with how it worked.
Are you still planning on bringing it back? If I don't end up selling my car it's something I'd been thinking about...
11-04-2019 10:50 PM
skersfan I don't understand why you asked me to bring the car to the National if you knew you could not help me. You tried several cords and told me my ECM was no good. I would not have drug the car 2000 miles if it could not be fixed/tuned. Either way, I have learned a lesson. tuning if fine if you are close to the tuner, at a distance it does not work so well. I remember we had the same problem with the Mallett after I got home, you were no longer able to access it. I should have left my car alone and will do so once the new engine is in it. Enjoy the car too much to have it set for so long. Thanks for your explanation.
11-04-2019 01:37 PM
[email protected]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopTop View Post
Skiers, Do you think if you had chosen HPTuner with the turbo upgrade that it would have been a successful upgrade?
We have sold 100's of the 2871 turbos over the years, I still have no idea what happened with this install and how it went so sideways. Usually it has always been a simple install, tune and enjoy kinda of setup, but obviously something went wrong here during some part of the install that made this not work, something that no one could figure out.

As for why we do not offer the 2871 turbo right now, it was simply that we wanted to make it even easier for plug and play installation. We felt we needed to go back and modify some of the parts to do that and make it easier for customers to do. It was originally supposed to be off the market for a couple months, however we became busy with lots of other projects and didn't get back to it. It was never removed from the market because of an issue with how it worked.
11-04-2019 01:32 PM
[email protected]
Quote:
Originally Posted by skersfan View Post
Seriously contemplating going completely stock. Charge tubes, intake and leaving the stock tune in it. Do away with the GMPP CAI system to.

This endeavor was way more expensive than putting an LS in the car. Still haven't told the wife about it. She has been on me about doing it in the first place. This would make life hell if she found out.

According to Hoosier the bottom end is stronger, what exactly that means I have no idea. Mine did some weird stuff as far as temperatures. But never ran hot. No water in the oil at this point.

Hope to get it done by next weekend, depends on the radiator arriving in time.
The bottom end of the LDK engine is stronger than the LNF. There is more material, the block is sand cast instead of lost foam, the cylinders are stabilized on the top, etc. Much nicer block for building power than the LNF.
11-04-2019 01:30 PM
[email protected]
Quote:
Originally Posted by skersfan View Post
JohnWR, The tune was purchased thru DDM. It was a custom tune for the kit I bought. I was told to bring the car 1200 miles to Colorado so he could fix it. I was told he could not access his own tune. Told to buy a new ECM, which was not available for ten days. No one could access it. I paid for a different tune at the National. Not Trifecta, we got it to run, but never correctly.

The LNF/LDK engine has arrived, still in the crate. I doubt that I am even going to tear the old engine down. I just want to be over this. It was referred by Hoosier GXP who has purchased several of them and installed in his restoration cars. Supposed to have a stronger bottom end. Not going to find out, as I am not taking it apart to see. I am over the modified crap. Want a dependable car to drive on weekends and cruises.

Curt may decide to tear it apart and see what happened. Really don't care, water under the bridge. Two very miserable years of my life and a lot of money wasted. Lesson learned.
As @JohnWR stated, no one except for Trifecta can do anything with the Trifecta tunes. No other tuner can get into the Trifecta tune and modify it, read it out, etc. The Trifecta tune is not a DDMworks tune, that is why we could not read it out or modify it, the tune is not our "own tune". Trifecta is a completely different business from DDMWorks, we simply sell their tunes.
11-01-2019 10:21 PM
skersfan I really don't know Chop. I am convinced and I think Robotech is too, that the Custom Tune did a number on the engine the first pass. I have had many cars, and drag raced quite a bit in the late 60's thru the mid 70's. I have blown up a few big blocks, both ford and chevy. I never heard the noise that came from my car before. I was certain it was toast instantly, but it still ran but babied it back to the shop. Robo looked at the tune and he said it was a ticking time bomb. This was in May, when we were getting ready for the National. It was never driven after the initial drive. Dave asked me to bring it to Denver, and he was not able to access the tune. The car was in perfect condition, we had replaced the water pump while doing the turbo upgrade.

I have used Trifecta on two cars and never had a problem with them. Still would use their canned tune. I think there was something wrong with it, but I purchased it thru DDM specifically for what was done to my car. To be fair, DDM did refund my money for the Tune when he was unable to access it. I really like Dave, and have supported him since being involved with the Sky's. But this has been a nightmare for all involved.

I talked with CBM, who builds high dollar sandrails with 2.4 and LS engines. He told me not to even touch the 2.0. He would not even touch it. What that means to others, no idea, but a guy who builds 300K sand rails has to know something. I know that what I bought is no longer offered by DDM. And in honesty Dave said it would be lot of work. Unfortunately we never got to work on it without all the problems. We have tuned and changed everything possible to make it work. It does the same thing it did after we left Denver. Run good and then run like crap, backfiring, throwing an occasional code for cylinder 2. Once the Turbo and current tune was removed the code was constant. My only question has been, why does it run so well and then total crap the next. With the piston gone I would think it would have ran like crap at all times. But that is not what happened by a long shot. I can tell you it was a damned fast 3 cylinder when it wanted to be!!!! lol. I know Dave at PAW and Robotech worked their butts off to make it work.

I really can't answer the question sir.
11-01-2019 08:39 PM
ChopTop
Quote:
Originally Posted by skersfan View Post
Seriously contemplating going completely stock. Charge tubes, intake and leaving the stock tune in it. Do away with the GMPP CAI system to.

This endeavor was way more expensive than putting an LS in the car. Still haven't told the wife about it. She has been on me about doing it in the first place. This would make life hell if she found out.

According to Hoosier the bottom end is stronger, what exactly that means I have no idea. Mine did some weird stuff as far as temperatures. But never ran hot. No water in the oil at this point.

Hope to get it done by next weekend, depends on the radiator arriving in time.
Skiers, Do you think if you had chosen HPTuner with the turbo upgrade that it would have been a successful upgrade?
11-01-2019 11:20 AM
Robotech
Quote:
Originally Posted by skersfan View Post
Seriously contemplating going completely stock. Charge tubes, intake and leaving the stock tune in it. Do away with the GMPP CAI system to.

This endeavor was way more expensive than putting an LS in the car. Still haven't told the wife about it. She has been on me about doing it in the first place. This would make life hell if she found out.

According to Hoosier the bottom end is stronger, what exactly that means I have no idea. Mine did some weird stuff as far as temperatures. But never ran hot. No water in the oil at this point.

Hope to get it done by next weekend, depends on the radiator arriving in time.
Well I'm sure not telling her. LOL

I will be out there tomorrow to try and get mine done. Need to fix that coolant temp wiring, adjust the clutch, load the new tune, and install the new MAP sensor harness adaptor. Just worry on loading the tune because I had to install HPT on a new laptop and can't find our registration info.
10-31-2019 08:12 PM
Ssky How much for the gmmp cai?
10-31-2019 07:32 PM
skersfan Seriously contemplating going completely stock. Charge tubes, intake and leaving the stock tune in it. Do away with the GMPP CAI system to.

This endeavor was way more expensive than putting an LS in the car. Still haven't told the wife about it. She has been on me about doing it in the first place. This would make life hell if she found out.

According to Hoosier the bottom end is stronger, what exactly that means I have no idea. Mine did some weird stuff as far as temperatures. But never ran hot. No water in the oil at this point.

Hope to get it done by next weekend, depends on the radiator arriving in time.
10-31-2019 06:12 PM
Robotech
Quote:
Originally Posted by skersfan View Post

The LNF/LDK engine has arrived, still in the crate. I doubt that I am even going to tear the old engine down. I just want to be over this. It was referred by Hoosier GXP who has purchased several of them and installed in his restoration cars. Supposed to have a stronger bottom end. Not going to find out, as I am not taking it apart to see. I am over the modified crap. Want a dependable car to drive on weekends and cruises.
The top end will be no different from the LNF. The difference is in the design of the block itself. The material between the water passageways and cylinder walls is thicker while other weak points have been beefed up as well so most of the improvements you can't really see.

I am fairly certain that the LNF from Sky_Pilot's Redline that I got for my turbo build suffered from a failure of the water jacket area of the LNF block which allowed water to get into the oil of the engine. The LDK addresses these weaknesses. So even just stock with a tune, the LNK block is beneficial.
10-31-2019 04:14 PM
skersfan JohnWR, The tune was purchased thru DDM. It was a custom tune for the kit I bought. I was told to bring the car 1200 miles to Colorado so he could fix it. I was told he could not access his own tune. Told to buy a new ECM, which was not available for ten days. No one could access it. I paid for a different tune at the National. Not Trifecta, we got it to run, but never correctly.

The LNF/LDK engine has arrived, still in the crate. I doubt that I am even going to tear the old engine down. I just want to be over this. It was referred by Hoosier GXP who has purchased several of them and installed in his restoration cars. Supposed to have a stronger bottom end. Not going to find out, as I am not taking it apart to see. I am over the modified crap. Want a dependable car to drive on weekends and cruises.

Curt may decide to tear it apart and see what happened. Really don't care, water under the bridge. Two very miserable years of my life and a lot of money wasted. Lesson learned.
10-31-2019 04:07 PM
Robotech
Quote:
Originally Posted by wspohn View Post
I have heard that on some LNF engines the ring end gaps were at the low end of the acceptable range which could result in the problem stated. Doesn't seem to afflict many stock engines but when you add a on-stock turbo it can become an issue. Kind of like playing engine roulette when you bolt that turbo on.

Robo, I think you are right that the sound from the chewed piston is diagnosed by the ECM as ping. The ring gap issue did come up even on some stock engines, but when you apply extra heat to dissipate with a larger turbo, the ones that were marginal in stock form became dodgy and probably had a higher proportion of issues as a result.

I always cross my fingers when I go to the US and have to run lower octane gas than my car was tuned for and I avoid full throttle runs as I don't want to push my luck. Pretty confident that the ECM will take care of actual ping by backing off the timing, but one never knows just what end gap you have unless you tear down the engine and replace the pistons (I seriously thought about a set of Wiseco pistons but was shooting for an optimal set up without going inside the engine).

It's a matter of controlling intake charge temperatures...those are the killers unless the KR numbers are really high. Any additional heat in the cylinder above OEM that sticks around can expand those rings more than normal. That's what causes that ring "hang" which is detected as KR. Retarding timing and cooling the intake charge can eliminate that but that's why some cars can make more power without KR than other cars. And you are correct in that the only way to know where your rings are set is to tear apart the engine. For most, this isn't worth the trouble. LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattM View Post
What kind of KR numbers were you seeing with the chewed piston?

Also where did the LDK bottom in come from and how much? Is there any difference between that and the LNF bottom end (basically asking if any changes need to be made to it to get it to bolt up).
LDK blocks are different from LNF blocks but are an improvement. They are stronger blocks. The block on my new LE5 is an LDK block. The LDK blocks are Gen III blocks. The LNFs and LE5s in our cars use weaker Gen II blocks that have bigger coolant passages from Gen I blocks and these passages can break under higher horsepower applications. I got my LDK block LE5 from Performance Auto Werks when they built my short block with forged internals. It wasn't cheap but it's perhaps the strongest Ecotec builds you can put in our cars (an LDK LNF would be stronger since you can't get an LE5 forged crank and the LNF has a forged crank stock).

We were seeing 6-8 degrees of KR (though I think KR is a percentage number, I learned it when it was degrees...or at least everyone referred to it in degrees...) and that is WAY too high. 0-1 is acceptable so long as it blips and quickly decays. 2-3 isn't bad but you want to track down what is causing it and get rid of it. 4+ and I worry so seeing 6-8 was really freaking me out.

And before someone says "Knock won't kill an engine" this may be true but as was mentioned, this "ring hang" issue is registered as knock and it WILL kill an engine. I learned with the 3800 platform that all knock was bad because real knock in the 3800 wasn't knock, but this "ring hang" and thus was something you needed to address before you chipped a piston. I think almost every modified 3800 chipped a piston sometime during it's life. Our cars seem to not be so bad but maybe it's because we don't have as many people modifying them without doing full engine swaps.
10-31-2019 01:36 PM
MattM What kind of KR numbers were you seeing with the chewed piston?

Also where did the LDK bottom in come from and how much? Is there any difference between that and the LNF bottom end (basically asking if any changes need to be made to it to get it to bolt up).
10-31-2019 01:11 PM
wspohn I have heard that on some LNF engines the ring end gaps were at the low end of the acceptable range which could result in the problem stated. Doesn't seem to afflict many stock engines but when you add a on-stock turbo it can become an issue. Kind of like playing engine roulette when you bolt that turbo on.

And skersfan - "No one could access the tune, including DDM" Of course they couldn't - that was a feature of the Trifecta tune, that it was not accessible to other tuners. Trifecta had tuned a lot of LNFs in Cobalts without problems and I was told that there was no issue applying that expertise when Vince tuned my Solstice (the first one they had tuned). And there wasn't, but then I was lucky in not having an engine with tight ring end gaps or I could have been in your spot. Like engine lottery! Sorry your roll came up snake eyes!

Robo, I think you are right that the sound from the chewed piston is diagnosed by the ECM as ping. The ring gap issue did come up even on some stock engines, but when you apply extra heat to dissipate with a larger turbo, the ones that were marginal in stock form became dodgy and probably had a higher proportion of issues as a result.

I always cross my fingers when I go to the US and have to run lower octane gas than my car was tuned for and I avoid full throttle runs as I don't want to push my luck. Pretty confident that the ECM will take care of actual ping by backing off the timing, but one never knows just what end gap you have unless you tear down the engine and replace the pistons (I seriously thought about a set of Wiseco pistons but was shooting for an optimal set up without going inside the engine).
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