Saturn Sky Forum banner
1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
85 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It would seem it’s common issue. People take their cars into a shop and morons jack the up by the plastic fender instead of the correct jacking points. I have some cracks on both of my fenders. I’m going to do some fiberglass repair on them. Any advice? PS bought it that way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,575 Posts
There r 2 morons...the owner who does not instruct the tech about jacking points and the moron who cannot follow directions...u always stay with your car when it has to go on a lift.
And the know it all's that don't believe you, think you are an idiot, and ignore your advice because they think that they know more than you do. They typically screw things up and cost you more money. Example: Purchase new OEM tire pressure sensors online from GM dealer. Have them installed at tire shop along with the new tires. Take car to local GM dealer to get programmed. Inform them that there is a service bulletin about required reprogramming. They replace your brand new sensors because they don't work. Then that say gee whiz their replacements don't work either. Attempt to replace the module and it doesn't work either. A week later finally concluded that the module needed programmed. New parts and service fees are through the roof just because customers are not professionals like them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,179 Posts
One of the many weak points on our cars.

Given we never got a 2nd or 3rd gen model to correct this issue.
It is unique to the Sky given both our front fenders are fiberglass.
Whether the Fast Eddie tire tech caused the issue by improper lifting,
or stress against the frame, plus the splash guards catching against
speed bumps, many of these fenders will need repairs.

Would our car have been better with steel fenders like the Solstice?
We will never know. Damage to the Sols fender do happen, not as
common as our Sky though. IF the repair is done right, if the paint
is matched to the OEM color- no one will know it's ever been repaired,
except you- peace of mind that the next time you look under your
car- you're not missing a chunk of said fender. IF you take the car to
a dealer or repair shop- make sure they know how to lift our car beforehand.

IF the service manager says sure no problem let me get our guy Eddie
to do it- I'd walk away just say'n.

LAC
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
867 Posts
I really cannot understand why a TPMS was even necessary...we got along without them for over 100 years. Just another computer chip to go wrong.
I could get philosophical here…. however I won’t. In the not too distant past (in the news) there were well publicized tire failures due to improper tire pressure. That along with many drivers neglecting to check tire psi on a regular basis. The TPMS is a good nanny to alert drivers. Heck, years ago ICE (Internal Combustion Engines) had solid lifters that needed adjustment and drivers to be aware of when adjustment was necessary. Hydraulic lifters eliminated that and the risk of internal damage due to drivers neglecting that routine maintenance. While on most vehicles tires aren’t self inflating and able to self adjust (like hydraulic lifters) the TPMS informs the driver of low tire psi that could result in a failure.
I like the idea of being able to push a button, seeing all 4 tires psi …. I do carry an accurate (Blue Point) tire gauge…..being 60 plus it’s convenient not having to manually check all 4 tires.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,255 Posts
I really cannot understand why a TPMS was even necessary...we got along without them for over 100 years. Just another computer chip to go wrong.
That has an easy answer......no spare tire. Most leaks are slow leaks, providing enough time to drive to assistance.

I looked into adding it in my early production 2007 Sky but it wasn't going to work with my early production BCM part number.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,083 Posts
By that logic, why do we need cars at all?

Horses worked fine for thousands of years...and never needed to have their tires inflated.

No, less is not more...that's why it's called "less".
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ducky

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,204 Posts
One of the many weak points on our cars.

Given we never got a 2nd or 3rd gen model to correct this issue.
Hardly a design fault, low side skirts and jacking pucks are found on nearly all European cars. I never had an issue lifting the Sky, it's easier to lift than my other two cars. If lifting it is a problem, you should get a truck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,255 Posts
Did anyone ever hear the term OVER ENGINEERED?
We own a motorhome and so I am on a couple of motorhome forums. Your comment is similar to the KISS philosophy (Keep It Simple Stupid) sometimes referred on those forums. When does the cost, complexity, and reliability, outweigh the benefit. Everyone has their own threshhold where to stop adding features on a motorhome.

But in the case with the Sky with TPMS and Active Handling, I feel the KISS philosophy isn't yet within sight. Yet I feel KISS may be creeping up on the Redline turbo'd 2.0L as compared to the NA 2.4L, as these limited production cars increase in miles, age, and part availability.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,179 Posts
Hardly a design fault, low side skirts and jacking pucks are found on nearly all European cars. I never had an issue lifting the Sky, it's easier to lift than my other two cars. If lifting it is a problem, you should get a truck.
Design fault- as opposed to a weak point. I never said it was a design fault by the engineers.
The design is fine- the use of material is fine, it could have been better.
Steel, carbon fiber but it would have cost more too.

The fiberglass construction is weak- thin as paper against the attachment points to the frame.
What causes the stress to our fenders- the road surface, suspension travel over bumps, dips,
drain culverts- or some bonehead tech that has no clue about the factory procedure for lifting our car let alone the uninformed new owner oblivious that there is- a proper factory procedure to lifting our car. Why read the owner's manual at all about the car I just purchased- it has no valuable information from the factory that concerns me. Hmmm page 36- so that's how that works, stupid me for not reading first, I shouldn't have done it my way.

Could this weak point of the fiberglass construction have been fixed in a 2nd or 3rd gen model.
Many European cars have gone through several generations, and upgrades to their original design concept, maybe even a few from consumer feedback that improves the original design lessening return trips to the dealer- to repair/replace the issue. Our Kappa's never got the chance to do that since this is a first-generation car. Should the Kappa have been built out of all fiberglass like the early Corvette's? It would have been way lighter in weight- but it could have had more issues to deal with.

I've never had an issue- nor have other owners lifting our Sky- when knowledgeable about proper technics.
It's only an issue if you let it be, by not trusting in good faith that the dealer or shop knows what they are doing in the first place- like that has never happened before to the consumer.

Jacking pucks are found on nearly all European cars- that should tell you something about the designers.
They knew beforehand that their cars needed jacking pucks- to be lifted. The original jack for lifting your car found in the trunk below the spare tire- with a lug wrench didn't need pucks- the slot in the steel bumper which is a hellva lot stronger than any fiberglass fender- took the stress of the car's weight. Any damage to the bumper was minor compared to fixing fiberglass fenders.

You should get a truck. Being this is Merica we know a thing or two about trucks here.
Are there fiberglass trucks in production today- I don't think so. A custom show truck with a till
front end maybe- an off road race truck that can be fixed after the race, but for everyday use it is not practical, but they are built out of steel to absorb any damage to the body panels.

Trucks could be built with fiberglass lighter in weight in their 5,000 lbs + nature, thus saving on gas consumption.

The bed of the truck is built out steel for a reason- by design to handle the odd load of gravel,
steel pipes, railroad ties or any other thing the consumer wants to use their purchase for- towing a boat, trailer, the odd race car to the track. The bed design has been improved over many generations some by consumer feedback- with a liner now either factory installed or by the consumer with many of the spray/roll on aftermarket products available to solve the issue but not alter the original design thereof.

Ye ha I got me this big ole 4x4- lets go test it out proper like. Off road mud pits, sand dunes, launching it through the air with the greatest of ease Bo & Luke style- or running over the nearest European car available. Sorry about your low side skirts & pucks being crushed my bad. Built Tough by design.

We have a tough little car- proven by crash tests this car can take a hit, and you can survive the experience. Our fenders not so much. It's not a design flaw or a construction material issue at a weak point. The hood or trunk lid could have been made out of fiberglass but what issues would that have caused for the consumer who just spent thousands of dollars.

We will never know with our first-generation model what could have been improved, but it would have been interesting to find out what the result could have been. An improved top. More V8 options. Permeant lifting pucks attached to the car on the option list box- sure why not- load it up with all the bells and whistles, money is no object to me. However, our cars were not designed to be expensive for the consumer- like some European models are. Affordable with or without pucks added.

Customize your car if you want to. Norm's fiberglass parts are well known among our members for his quality of work, and construction. His devotion to detail is unrivaled- for the many items he produces for our members- it takes his time/effort and your money. He could be the only new source for fender reproduction for our cars in the future- if that was the only thing he did.

On a production run in a limited capacity for a niche car such as ours that is not always the case here. Time is money for the manufacture. Finish it- get it done and off to the dealer asap to fill his order so his customer can enjoy his purchase- not that he cares about the weak point to our fenders when signing the papers, and being handed the keys.

My apologies to the community for the rant- it wasn't intended to be one.
I got carried away again like I usual do here. Got to prep my car this week- including looking
at my fenders condition for a 450-mile run across my state beginning this Sunday morning.
There might be video of this trip on my You-Tube channel later for your enjoyment.
My fenders matter to me. They do not matter to Fast Eddie who is clueless however.

LAC
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,204 Posts
I mean--does the owners manual need to state everything that is obvious? Should it state "Do not hit the windscreen with a hammer?" If a shop can't work out that a car lift shouldn't come into contact with the bodywork of the car, then that shop is not qualified to operate a car lift. The lifts generally even come with extensions that snap into the arms, and many, if not most, cars require these.

Even if the fenders were made from another material, having the lift press against them would damage them just the same. Body panels are not intended to have pressure of any sort applied to them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,083 Posts
Seems like GM should have known that designing the fenders that way would put them at risk of damage.

They should have either designed them differently, or included the snap-in lifting pucks. Yes, that would have "increased costs", but not when compared to how many dealerships had to pay for new fenders when they lifted it wrong.

Another case of being penny-wise and pound-foolish.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
85 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Design fault- as opposed to a weak point. I never said it was a design fault by the engineers.
The design is fine- the use of material is fine, it could have been better.
Steel, carbon fiber but it would have cost more too.

The fiberglass construction is weak- thin as paper against the attachment points to the frame.
What causes the stress to our fenders- the road surface, suspension travel over bumps, dips,
drain culverts- or some bonehead tech that has no clue about the factory procedure for lifting our car let alone the uninformed new owner oblivious that there is- a proper factory procedure to lifting our car. Why read the owner's manual at all about the car I just purchased- it has no valuable information from the factory that concerns me. Hmmm page 36- so that's how that works, stupid me for not reading first, I shouldn't have done it my way.

Could this weak point of the fiberglass construction have been fixed in a 2nd or 3rd gen model.
Many European cars have gone through several generations, and upgrades to their original design concept, maybe even a few from consumer feedback that improves the original design lessening return trips to the dealer- to repair/replace the issue. Our Kappa's never got the chance to do that since this is a first-generation car. Should the Kappa have been built out of all fiberglass like the early Corvette's? It would have been way lighter in weight- but it could have had more issues to deal with.

I've never had an issue- nor have other owners lifting our Sky- when knowledgeable about proper technics.
It's only an issue if you let it be, by not trusting in good faith that the dealer or shop knows what they are doing in the first place- like that has never happened before to the consumer.

Jacking pucks are found on nearly all European cars- that should tell you something about the designers.
They knew beforehand that their cars needed jacking pucks- to be lifted. The original jack for lifting your car found in the trunk below the spare tire- with a lug wrench didn't need pucks- the slot in the steel bumper which is a hellva lot stronger than any fiberglass fender- took the stress of the car's weight. Any damage to the bumper was minor compared to fixing fiberglass fenders.

You should get a truck. Being this is Merica we know a thing or two about trucks here.
Are there fiberglass trucks in production today- I don't think so. A custom show truck with a till
front end maybe- an off road race truck that can be fixed after the race, but for everyday use it is not practical, but they are built out of steel to absorb any damage to the body panels.

Trucks could be built with fiberglass lighter in weight in their 5,000 lbs + nature, thus saving on gas consumption.

The bed of the truck is built out steel for a reason- by design to handle the odd load of gravel,
steel pipes, railroad ties or any other thing the consumer wants to use their purchase for- towing a boat, trailer, the odd race car to the track. The bed design has been improved over many generations some by consumer feedback- with a liner now either factory installed or by the consumer with many of the spray/roll on aftermarket products available to solve the issue but not alter the original design thereof.

Ye ha I got me this big ole 4x4- lets go test it out proper like. Off road mud pits, sand dunes, launching it through the air with the greatest of ease Bo & Luke style- or running over the nearest European car available. Sorry about your low side skirts & pucks being crushed my bad. Built Tough by design.

We have a tough little car- proven by crash tests this car can take a hit, and you can survive the experience. Our fenders not so much. It's not a design flaw or a construction material issue at a weak point. The hood or trunk lid could have been made out of fiberglass but what issues would that have caused for the consumer who just spent thousands of dollars.

We will never know with our first-generation model what could have been improved, but it would have been interesting to find out what the result could have been. An improved top. More V8 options. Permeant lifting pucks attached to the car on the option list box- sure why not- load it up with all the bells and whistles, money is no object to me. However, our cars were not designed to be expensive for the consumer- like some European models are. Affordable with or without pucks added.

Customize your car if you want to. Norm's fiberglass parts are well known among our members for his quality of work, and construction. His devotion to detail is unrivaled- for the many items he produces for our members- it takes his time/effort and your money. He could be the only new source for fender reproduction for our cars in the future- if that was the only thing he did.

On a production run in a limited capacity for a niche car such as ours that is not always the case here. Time is money for the manufacture. Finish it- get it done and off to the dealer asap to fill his order so his customer can enjoy his purchase- not that he cares about the weak point to our fenders when signing the papers, and being handed the keys.

My apologies to the community for the rant- it wasn't intended to be one.
I got carried away again like I usual do here. Got to prep my car this week- including looking
at my fenders condition for a 450-mile run across my state beginning this Sunday morning.
There might be video of this trip on my You-Tube channel later for your enjoyment.
My fenders matter to me. They do not matter to Fast Eddie who is clueless however.

LAC
Your rant is just fine Go for it !!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
85 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I have a C6 corvette and the bottom rocker panel and front fenders are plastic. I’ve seen corvettes cracked the the same way. On a corvette if the rocker panel gets broken the could actually be totaled. It’s all one piece the door jam and all the lower panels. So in that way we’re lucky it’s only the fenders that get cracked and can be repaired fairly easily. The location where the jacking points are there are cut outs in the plastic that make it easier for the car to be jacked up. I have leave in pucks in mine.
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top