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My thinkin cap's not working on full charge, so help me out here. :) Is Paulson & Co following Friedman thinking as a full solution or a component of a "softer" landing?
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
My thinkin cap's not working on full charge, so help me out here. :) Is Paulson & Co following Friedman thinking as a full solution or a component of a "softer" landing?
"Friedmanites, who have no conception of malinvestments and never raise any issue with the boom, also cannot understand why it inevitably leads to a crash.
They only see the drying up of credit and blame the Fed for not injecting massive enough amounts of liquidities to prevent it."

I see Paulson, with his corporate hat on, blaming the fed for not infusing enough liquidity. In his current position he has the ability to do just that and feels that its the right thing to do. I also think it was a near term attempt at fixing a long term structural problem which could have placed us further into the Marx' Proposal Number Five. Finally, capitalistic principle always clash with social engineering with very granular consequences.
 

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Well...if we are truly going to adopt a "market" approach to the economy and get the government out of the system, we need to do away with the Federal Reserve system as well as the Treasury Dept. instrusions into the market, among other things....

I wonder how that will go over.... :rolleyes:
 

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WOW!! I Am Glad This Did NOT Pass!!

About time some politicians from BOTH parties showed some balls & back bone.. It is amazing to see that the smart ones listened to the masses told and showed their political leaders this
Oh yea, they got what they deserved NOTHING!! Why should WE, AND my children, YOUR children, our future grand children have to pay for these greediest mothers?

What this market now needs is to go through a BIG time shake out AND the pain of the MAJOR mis-management by EVERYONE in government and the unfettered GREED of unscrupulous financiers, politicians and bankers.... :mad: Those bastards have made their money, paid off the politicians and have now disappeared, while the innocent, naive peoples that were fooled & shown the pie in the sky eat shlt!! Many of these peoples were also fools, cashing in all the time as the properties escalated in price and took out those funds..Now what? we are suppose to bail out all of those that played the game and lost? I don't think so..:mad: I am so pissed at all of them.. I played the game right and continue to do so, now I'm suppose to bail those who failed out with my hard earned taxes that I paid? and the mortgage I continue to keep uP? What does this do for me IF I agree? Give me a break..:nono:
On this article you posted, this paragraph I guess summarizes my feelings..

"But central banks and governments cannot transform unprofitable investments into profitable ones. They cannot force institutions to increase lending when they are so exposed. This is why calls for throwing more money at the problem are so totally misguided. Injections of liquidities started more than a year ago and have had no effect in preventing the situation from getting worse. Such measures can only delay the market correction and turn what should be a quick recession into a prolonged one".

Finally, how much MORE money are WE, THE PEOPLE are suppose to throw at these politicians and institutions in our so called "free market" society? AND, why won't they pay for MY mortgage...:mad::brentil:
:leaving:
 

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Well...if we are truly going to adopt a "market" approach to the economy and get the government out of the system, we need to do away with the Federal Reserve system as well as the Treasury Dept. instrusions into the market, among other things....

I wonder how that will go over.... :rolleyes:
Sounding a lot like a Libertarian except for the rolling of the eyes.:)
 

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Got to admit that I'm well out of my realm here, but I've got some intersting reading to chase down and ponder.

Nope, I've got no answers and am along for the ride, but have some more light reading for myself by googling malinvestments and Friedman. I suppose about the only thing folks might agree on is that this will be intersting to watch. Oh, well maybe some won't even agree to that.


TRL : Any summary or interpretation you can offer to this, or more of the same?

http://www.moneyweek.com/news-and-charts/economics/can-ben-bernanke-stop-the-credit-crunch.aspx
 

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Got to admit that I'm well out of my realm here, but I've got some intersting reading to chase down and ponder.

Nope, I've got no answers and am along for the ride, but have some more light reading for myself by googling malinvestments and Friedman. I suppose about the only thing folks might agree on is that this will be intersting to watch. Oh, well maybe some won't even agree to that.

Is Ben Bernanke right to follow Friedman? - MoneyWeek
With Your article, these 2 paragraphs sticks, confirms what the real people in the know are saying.. And re-affirms that country MUST go through this pain.. Re-election year or not don't mean shlt, screw the politicians, they created this mess to begin with..

"Anyone who believes that the Fed can pretend that heavily damaged mortgage securities are worth more than toilet paper and literally build a $200 billion loan portfolio upon them does not understand finance. Just because Ben Bernanke declares something to be 'valuable' does not bestow value upon it."

Bernanke is making the credit crunch worse
"The simple issue is not lack of liquidity. It is the fact that billions — make that trillions — of dollars were malinvested in markets where the increasing values could not be sustained. To pump near-worthless dollars into this mix does not solve anything; it only ensures that the coming day of reckoning will be even more unpleasant than it would have been otherwise."
 

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It's all part of the grand plan. The almighty dollar has to fall before we will accept a single currency for North America.

Mark my words...the "AMERO" is coming, and by the time it is proposed you will be begging for it!

AmeroCurrency.com $$$ Buy Ameros here--Gold, Silver & Copper--Fight the NAU / UNA--Welcome to a discussion of the Amero, the possible new North American currency, the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America and the formation of a North A

North American currency union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is all apart of the rich people agenda of total control and world domination. ONE CURRENCY, ONE GOVERNMENT, NO CHOICE!

Maybe some would be interested in reading a thread started a while back. Some thought myself and others were nuts, but when it all unfolds I will say I told you. Educate yourself and be as ready as you can.

http://www.skyroadster.com/forums/f18/most-fascinating-film-i-have-ever-seen-22815/
 

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Wow...we've gone all the way to anarchy..... :willy:
 

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This crisis is not the Republicans fault or McCain. They were talking surpluses that the Clinton Admin had scored. To what affect no national security closing downing the most of out military and cutting spending on everything to secure our nation. Look what it got us a first successful attack on civilians U.S. soil in 100 years and the death of over 3500 people.

You want to talk fault here. Had Clinton not cut spending on all our national securities 911 would never have happened in the U.S. We would never have needed to attack Afghanistan, or Iraq. In fact the CIA could have slyly had them fight each other to the death and given us a ring side seat!

The problem with the Wall Street is the same tactics that lead us down the road with Enron, Tyco, and World Com people in high places making billions off taking advantage of the Middle class.

They created this bubble, invested in loans, and shady deals that ended up biting them in the rear when the bubble burst. It is always the story of the rich trying to get richer and sticking it to the tax payer! When they have problem ask the government to bail them out.

I say NO! You should have known better!


They get all high and mighty shifting our jobs overseas only to discover that people that lost their jobs are the very people that make them profitable.

You can't put Americans out of work and expect them to buy anything it does not work that way. (Everything is cost relational) No wonder Americans are bailing out of Mortgages left and right if you make them jobless Santa Clause is not going to pay the bills! I would think American jobs should be a company’s biggest goal.

They want to spend 700 Billion spend it on insuring every American for Medical, Dental, and Eye coverage.

Globalization of our companies is great, but companies should keep the manufacturing plants open here in America, if they need a plant to make operations and product cheaper to sell to foreign buyers then do so, but they should not be able to sell anything manufactured from their foreign plants in America or the Americas!

Also all imported goods should be taxed at such a rate that it would be slightly cheaper to have them made in America. That would include service work as well. (Foreign call centers this means you!)

I see this bailout as a 700 billion waste of money. I agree that the government buy up the loans, but the companies must fold or be controlled solely by the government forever! The executives stripped of their titles for life and all their money and possessions seized.

Legislation needs to be passed to so that top executives are salary capped at 250k per year. All other proceeds over this amount have to be given to the government for loans, grants, and tuition, medical. Let us get these people back to the real world where 30-50K a years is normal living! Not squandering millions deciding which shirt to buy for 100K when it was made in Jakarta for $.55 cents.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Got to admit that I'm well out of my realm here, but I've got some intersting reading to chase down and ponder.

Nope, I've got no answers and am along for the ride, but have some more light reading for myself by googling malinvestments and Friedman. I suppose about the only thing folks might agree on is that this will be intersting to watch. Oh, well maybe some won't even agree to that.


TRL : Any summary or interpretation you can offer to this, or more of the same?

Is Ben Bernanke right to follow Friedman? - MoneyWeek
Pretty much the same, your nose will take you to Fannie May and Freddie Mac during your light reading and that is where the fix will need to start.

Here is the problem.

Do we really want to socialize our financial system? Part 1
 

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Pretty much the same, your nose will take you to Fannie May and Freddie Mac during your light reading and that is where the fix will need to start.

Here is the problem.

Do we really want to socialize our financial system? Part 1
It seems as though these companies and the excutives running them don't feel they need to follow the same business etheics and morals they preach to the employee's about.

I can only see socialization the only way to fix these types of problems. It is truley sad to see that people are willing and able to make billions of dollars that they greedly keep to themselves or a select few and none is given back to the business, community or betterment of our society.

Not only must it stop for the Business Exec's, but for Sports, and actors as well. People with trillions of dollars doing nothing, but hording it for their own selfish gains. People with more money than they could spend in a 1000 lifetimes. What gives!?!

To me if you have that much and you can't help American societly and create millions of jobs then you are worthless. Not only to yourself, but to the rest of the world as well.

EAT THE RICH!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
It seems as though these companies and the excutives running them don't feel they need to follow the same business etheics and morals they preach to the employee's about.

I can only see socialization the only way to fix these types of problems. It is truley sad to see that people are willing and able to make billions of dollars that they greedly keep to themselves or a select few and none is given back to the business, community or betterment of our society.

Not only must it stop for the Business Exec's, but for Sports, and actors as well. People with trillions of dollars doing nothing, but hording it for their own selfish gains. People with more money than they could spend in a 1000 lifetimes. What gives!?!

To me if you have that much and you can't help American societly and create millions of jobs then you are worthless. Not only to yourself, but to the rest of the world as well.

EAT THE RICH!
So, if I understand you correctly you want to put the billions and billions of dollars in the hands of the politicians? Of course we can all vouch for there veracity and problem solving intellects. :banghead::brentil:
 

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Pretty much the same, your nose will take you to Fannie May and Freddie Mac during your light reading and that is where the fix will need to start.

Here is the problem.

Do we really want to socialize our financial system? Part 1

Yeah, I'll keep reading and have much to do to form an opinion. One thought or question which jumps to mind now and then is whether under Friedman thinking we could find ourselves in a scenerio where the Fed feels they need to nationalize the banking system for a period of time. Possible? Could they reach that conclusion? If so, what would trigger that and just what would that mean?
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Yeah, I'll keep reading and have much to do to form an opinion. One thought or question which jumps to mind now and then is whether under Friedman thinking we could find ourselves in a scenerio where the Fed feels they need to nationalize the banking system for a period of time. Possible? Could they reach that conclusion? If so, what would trigger that and just what would that mean?
In my opinion that is exactly the net affect of all the financial bail outs up to this point and with the addition of the 700 billion we will/would have had financial nationalization by fiat.
 

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I hope everyone has their retirement money under a mattress.....
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I hope everyone has their retirement money under a mattress.....
Not yet, the Dow is up today by 500 points. The roller coaster continues.
 

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About time some politicians from BOTH parties showed some balls & back bone.. It is amazing to see that the smart ones listened to the masses told and showed their political leaders this
Oh yea, they got what they deserved NOTHING!! Why should WE, AND my children, YOUR children, our future grand children have to pay for these greediest mothers?

What this market now needs is to go through a BIG time shake out AND the pain of the MAJOR mis-management by EVERYONE in government and the unfettered GREED of unscrupulous financiers, politicians and bankers.... :mad: Those bastards have made their money, paid off the politicians and have now disappeared, while the innocent, naive peoples that were fooled & shown the pie in the sky eat shlt!! Many of these peoples were also fools, cashing in all the time as the properties escalated in price and took out those funds..Now what? we are suppose to bail out all of those that played the game and lost? I don't think so..:mad: I am so pissed at all of them.. I played the game right and continue to do so, now I'm suppose to bail those who failed out with my hard earned taxes that I paid? and the mortgage I continue to keep uP? What does this do for me IF I agree? Give me a break..:nono:
On this article you posted, this paragraph I guess summarizes my feelings..

"But central banks and governments cannot transform unprofitable investments into profitable ones. They cannot force institutions to increase lending when they are so exposed. This is why calls for throwing more money at the problem are so totally misguided. Injections of liquidities started more than a year ago and have had no effect in preventing the situation from getting worse. Such measures can only delay the market correction and turn what should be a quick recession into a prolonged one".

Finally, how much MORE money are WE, THE PEOPLE are suppose to throw at these politicians and institutions in our so called "free market" society? AND, why won't they pay for MY mortgage...:mad::brentil:
:leaving:
:agree::agree::agree:

I don't want to pay for their mistakes!!!

BA...
 

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In my opinion that is exactly the net affect of all the financial bail outs up to this point and with the addition of the 700 billion we will/would have had financial nationalization by fiat.
Think I'd agree there, but darn if I can get past the overall "wow" aspect. Guess the question was what would trigger a more explicit action of federalizing the banking system for a while. Seems Friedman was less confident in those areas of free-market, so trying to skip ahead a few pages in the realm of possibilites. The whole thing is a more gripping story than anything on tv, so I wanna see previews of coming episodes.
 
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