Saturn Sky Forum banner
61 - 78 of 78 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
It seems that it is politically correct to slam anything American made or designed, while anything foreign is automatically deemed better.
It's funny, because the bias has *always* been there in the enthusiast magazines (at least since I was subscribing in the early 1980s.)

American cars were big, crude, with archaic suspensions, and could not match the subtle refinement and fine, precision handling of the Euro/Asian crowd. Road and Track, in particular, was very good at running articles explaining how slower, more expensive cars were the future, American V-8s were dead, etc. etc.

It took 20 years for their attitudes to spread fully into the mainstream, but spread they have--and we now have a poisonous media culture with respect to domestic cars.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
What incentive does Saturn have to help you?

What incentive does Chevy have to help you?

If you can answer the two questions above, you will have your answer.

Bogie I took it to Saturn before they went belly-up and at the time was considering the Saturn Outlook. Doesn't matter, a business should always strive to provide the highest level of customer service possible. Something many large American businesses just don't understand.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
507 Posts
Wasn't CR the rag that gave a "recommended buy" rating to Toyotas based on prior performance data w/o hard data? That's seriously biting them in the ass now, given the massive recall @ hand.

If I really wanted an "objective" evaluation, I'd read as many sources as I could, but I certainly wouldn't start with a publication that claims objectivity but then makes recommendations on a current product without any data about said product.

That's like saying you shouldn't buy a Focus because Ford once upon a time built a little funster called the Pinto.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,435 Posts
I kind of liked the Pinto. Right car, right time.

As the offerings from overseas of that era were different shades of odd and/or cute, it fit right in, never mind its occasional tendency to flambe its occupants. People should not be rear-ending other cars anyway, especially in the 2.5 ton tuna-boats that passed for reasonable transportation in those days.
They were actually pretty fun to drive once you dropped a smallblock V8 in them. But then just about anything under 2800 Lbs is a lot of fun with a V8 in it.:D
What about the Vega? The engine was a POS. But once you got past that little detail they had a suspension that could be made to handle decent. The coupes had a pretty sporty look for the day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
587 Posts
I can remember when CU rated American cars very highly, such as the 1956 Oldsmobile, etc. I also can remember when they trashed the foreign cars like the Toyota. I also remember when Car and Driver, Road and Track, etc. endorsed the 1965 Corvair Corsa as one of the best moves that GM did to improve the handling and performance of the Corvair series. They seemed jubilant over the fact the very little was needed to get gobs of hp out of the engine and that GM had under rated the hp of the Corsa 140 hp, 4 carb engine. They also rated the handling with very high marks. But the car was Natorized.

I loved my 65 Corsa and wished that I never traded in on the Fiat 850 Spyder. Autocross competition required very little, if anything for the Corsa but required too much for the Fiat to be competitive. Oh, well, live and learn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
169 Posts
There are a few major flaws in what CR does.

They do not weight different problems – for eg a dead transmission counts the same as a complaint that there is a fit and finish problem. A problem is a problem, in the real world if a car leaves you on the side of a road, it is much more important.

CR does not look that far into a vehicles life.

They count a recall as a bad thing, sure Toyota's was huge, BUT some are not.

Basic flaws in tabulation – identical cars scoring differently. I had an '86 Grand National which was rated good ( at the time ), the '87 which was nearly an identical car was rated at the bottom.

Perception is reality. When CR rates a car the best, people stop looking at it objectionably.
A good example is the worst car I have ever owned a '99 Accord. It was the MT car of the year and a CR best buy. I did put a lot of miles on it but had a laundry list of problems including 2 – transmissions, catalytic converter and door latch ( which cost $300 to replace ), chronic check engine lites, just to name a few.

The sixth generation had very common problems with mostly their transmissions and all of these parts. If you look at the Honda forums like this one, there are hundreds of people from different countries with exactly the same problems. The general consensus is that they still love their cars, and feel that it is just a small bump in the road, they LOVE their cars because it is the best.

Most American Dealers sell their vehicles at a steep discount, the average cars the lists for $20K actually sell for around $15, most foreign dealers sell a $20K for much more closer to $18K on average. The fact that they are computing depreciation on list or sticker is completely wrong and all of their total cost of owner ship is completely wrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
I agree with many of your points in your post dffr1. I used to subscribe to Consumer Reports but gave up the subscription a long time ago. Yes, there was a time way back when they were on the Honda bandwagon and as you say rated them a best buy. Well, I decided to purchase on that analysis and ended up owning 5 straight new Honda's that included 1 Civic, 3 Accords, and 1 CRX. Never had a bad one and drove them all till they dropped. Well, then I went off and bought another vehicle that CR highly recommended and that was a new Volkswagon Fox. Worst car I ever owned, sold it pretty quick and lost a ton on it. I dropped my subscription to Consumer Reports and never picked one up again. So, the moral of the story is most buyers who have good experiences with ownership, will most times be inclined to continue until they have a poor experience with a brand. Word of mouth from other friends that own a vehicle play into it as well.

Now, lets get back to the Toyota problems! If I was driving a Toyota and ended up having an accident in it caused by a problem that had been acknowledged by a recall, I would bever buy form them again. Recalls are common in the auto industry and they are meant to protect the buyer. When they become repeated by the same manufacturer, then some may question reliability issues and go to another brand. Now, this bad publicity that Toyota has received pertaining to the recent recalls, it may hurt them in the short term, but the jury is out on the long term, some may decide like I did to try another brand, and then stick to it!

Consumer Reports is in the business to sell magazines! Sometimes they are correct, sometimes not! But Americans are sometimes lazy as I inferred earlier in this post, and tend to continue with brand until they have a bad experience.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,435 Posts
But while Gm was owning up to and fixing the engineering issues with they're vehicles and accepting the bad press that goes along with it. Toyota was dusting they're problems under the carpet while people were complaining and having accidents because of it.
Toyota knew about this as early as 2000 and had to be forced to own up by the Japanese and American governments.

Frankly, I'd rather buy just about anything from a buisness that makes things right.

Cars and electronics are fairly complicated and usually are engineered and produced on tight targeted budgets. It's not unusual to have engineering problems show up especially on first production runs.

What separates the men from the boys is who makes things right in a timely manner for the customer even if it costs them some money or a little bad press.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,659 Posts
Buy a Camry or an Accord or a mini-van if you want reliability. Buy a Sky or Solstice if you want a good time. Screw Consumer Reports.
My 3 Sky's have been more reliable than the 3 Celica's that I owned and way more fun to drive because they handle much better and are quicker. I never did figure out how to turn the Camry annoying steering assist off that you have to fight so it doesn't run you off the road.
 
61 - 78 of 78 Posts
Top