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Discussion Starter #1
:confused: .... this is a continuation from an earlier thread .....:rolleyes:

Deluke and Sky Spy .... first a sincere thank you for helping me, and all other forum members, who want to understand GM's ordering policy. If anyone else has knowledgeable information, please take a moment to bring facts to this discussion.

a/ So from what you have said, it is GM's policy not to require each dealer to forward every deposited "Vehicle Purchase Agreement" for the official "Order Number".
Some dealers do submit deposited orders, thereby price protecting their customer. Mean while, other dealers follow GM's policy and their customers have no price protection.

b/ correct?

c/ So, if it is opitional for dealers ...why would any dealer not submit deposited orders? (always follow the money!)

We all have read the threads about concern's dealers may have about not get reimbursed and the lenghty paper work discourages them. But their customer (the unprotected price increased customer) gets stuck paying $1,000 plus.

The dealers get reimbursed from GM and keep's the extra profit charged customers ... and GM? They can control assembly cost and raise the price on all those non-price protected pending orders ... sweet.

d/ Is there a way (such as rebate request form) for these financially harmed customers to recover their lost through GM since it is their policy that is causing some customers to be financially harmed?
Or, from the dealer since it is the dealer, since they chooses not to submit your deposited order but hold it until GM communicates their allotment?
Take a guess who GM is pointing at ... oh yea .. the dealer! And guess who the dealer is pointing at ... it is GM's policy! But guess who's wallet get's pinched? Ouch! :eek:

e/ Or is going to court the only way?

A thousand plus dollars is a lot of money to most people. This GM policy seems to be in the best interest of GM and its dealers.
There is power in numbers ... how do you say "CLASS ACTION"!
:cool:

Us members deeply appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge.
Thanks for your advice.
:thumbs:
 

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:confused: .... this is a continuation from an earlier thread .....:rolleyes:

Deluke and Sky Spy .... first a sincere thank you for helping me, and all other forum members, who want to understand GM's ordering policy. If anyone else has knowledgeable information, please take a moment to bring facts to this discussion.

a/ So from what you have said, it is GM's policy not to require each dealer to forward every deposited "Vehicle Purchase Agreement" for the official "Order Number".
Some dealers do submit deposited orders, thereby price protecting their customer. Mean while, other dealers follow GM's policy and their customers have no price protection.

b/ correct?

c/ So, if it is opitional for dealers ...why would any dealer not submit deposited orders? (always follow the money!)

We all have read the threads about concern's dealers may have about not get reimbursed and the lenghty paper work discourages them. But their customer (the unprotected price increased customer) gets stuck paying $1,000 plus.

The dealers get reimbursed from GM and keep's the extra profit charged customers ... and GM? They can control assembly cost and raise the price on all those non-price protected pending orders ... sweet.

d/ Is there a way (such as rebate request form) for these financially harmed customers to recover their lost through GM since it is their policy that is causing some customers to be financially harmed?
Or, from the dealer since it is the dealer, since they chooses not to submit your deposited order but hold it until GM communicates their allotment?
Take a guess who GM is pointing at ... oh yea .. the dealer! And guess who the dealer is pointing at ... it is GM's policy! But guess who's wallet get's pinched? Ouch! :eek:

e/ Or is going to court the only way?

A thousand plus dollars is a lot of money to most people. This GM policy seems to be in the best interest of GM and its dealers.
There is power in numbers ... how do you say "CLASS ACTION"!
:cool:

Us members deeply appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge.
Thanks for your advice.
:thumbs:


OK, lets back up for a moment. GM sells cars to dealers. Dealers then sell the car to you. GM cannot sell a car directly to any individual (thank local and state laws designed to protect dealers).

GM has an automated system whereby dealers can enter orders for cars. There is a field that marks the vehicle as being already sold to a customer and a field for the customer name. The sold orders can be moved earlier in production - one incentive to mark it as sold (although this won't happen with the SKY). The other reason is to price protect the order. Unless it is marked sold with a customer name, there is no way to prove that the car was really sold and is being delivered to the customer that ordered the car prior to the increase (purchase agreements can be backdated, etc.). No deposit is required to enter into the system. The credit is system generated.

The system is designed to be fair to all (not to screw the customer as you infer above). No system is perfect and not all dealers (or customers for that matter) are scrupulous.

The best protection that you have is to request a copy of the order with the valid order number and showing the date entered, the sold order field entered and your name in the customer field. This verifies that you will be protected against any future price increases.
 

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It's not GM policy not to have a preliminary order put in. It's just what some Dealerships do. But GM has never said yes, when you get a order the order has to be put into preliminary orders. Maybe this is what they should do. They should make it a policy.

What you have to do is call GM corp. They have seen to it with the Solstice that the customer got the cash not the dealership. But you would have to have all the documents needed. If the preliminary order went in then the price on the car when it comes in should be the old price.

The best way to get back at a Dealership after you get your car and everything is straightened out is to give them a bad review if they deserve it. This is watched very closely by general Motors. This does affect allocations and other things.

Also the dealership won't get reimbersed if the paper work doesn't go in. And when it does go in the check goes directly to the customer in the customers name. But if the dealership won't do they extra paperwork but you have all the info needed tell them you are going to give them a bad review and call corp. I will bet they will change their mind. By the way I probably would make sure the car is mine before I started getting assertive.
 

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First the price protection policy is GM's they wrote it and they implemented it.

Second the timing of the dealer placing an order into GM's system is strictly a dealer choice.

If your dealer placed your order into GM's system with your name on it, you are price protected.

If your dealer did not place your order into GM's system with your name on it, you are not price protected.

GMs policy is very fair actually, they are saying if you had a official order when the price increase is announced they will not raise your price, if you don't have an official order you pay the increase.

Also note many dealers also consider entering an order into the GM system to be the point of no return, my dealers policy is if you have your order entered into GMs system at that time your down payment becomes non-refundable. The dealers policy is simple if you want an official order your down payment becomes non-refundable.

I think the bigest problem we are seeing is a lack of communication between the dealers and the customers.
 

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:confused: .... this is a continuation from an earlier thread .....:rolleyes:

Deluke and Sky Spy .... first a sincere thank you for helping me, and all other forum members, who want to understand GM's ordering policy. If anyone else has knowledgeable information, please take a moment to bring facts to this discussion.

a/ So from what you have said, it is GM's policy not to require each dealer to forward every deposited "Vehicle Purchase Agreement" for the official "Order Number".
Some dealers do submit deposited orders, thereby price protecting their customer. Mean while, other dealers follow GM's policy and their customers have no price protection.

b/ correct?

c/ So, if it is opitional for dealers ...why would any dealer not submit deposited orders? (always follow the money!)

We all have read the threads about concern's dealers may have about not get reimbursed and the lenghty paper work discourages them. But their customer (the unprotected price increased customer) gets stuck paying $1,000 plus.

The dealers get reimbursed from GM and keep's the extra profit charged customers ... and GM? They can control assembly cost and raise the price on all those non-price protected pending orders ... sweet.

d/ Is there a way (such as rebate request form) for these financially harmed customers to recover their lost through GM since it is their policy that is causing some customers to be financially harmed?
Or, from the dealer since it is the dealer, since they chooses not to submit your deposited order but hold it until GM communicates their allotment?
Take a guess who GM is pointing at ... oh yea .. the dealer! And guess who the dealer is pointing at ... it is GM's policy! But guess who's wallet get's pinched? Ouch! :eek:

e/ Or is going to court the only way?

A thousand plus dollars is a lot of money to most people. This GM policy seems to be in the best interest of GM and its dealers.
There is power in numbers ... how do you say "CLASS ACTION"!
:cool:

Us members deeply appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge.
Thanks for your advice.
:thumbs:
Customers (through the forum) need to learn that when you go in to order your SKY, sit down with the manager or whoever takes their order, and order the SKY right then and there. Request that you order your vehicle through GM dealerworld at that moment. There should never be a question in doubt then. By the manager not ordering the car at that time could result in you losing your sport in line or your order getting lost in the shuffle of paperwork.

And by the way, there is no rebate form for our hailo vehicles at this time.
 

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Wow deluke it looks like you must have posted your response while I was writing mine, not trying to step on your toes :lol:
Be my guest. I'm not a dealer I just have been on the solstice forum for so long that I know alot of stuff. And if I don't know something or need a phone number I can usually get it.

You did a good RustyNight !!:thumbs: :thumbs:

If I didn't have to get an automatic (so I'm waiting for a GXP) I most likely wouldn't be on the forum quite as much.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks to all for the info.

It seems many of us placed a deposit ... and the dealership choose not to place a name into the GM order system. Period.

Many here have stated they asked their dealers for an the official GM order number and are refused. It appears theses dealers are keeping a list in the office file and once they get an allocation for a manual or automatic they then submit and receive the GM order number.

By doing it that way the customer is S.O.L. as far as price protection.

As Deluke stated, and Rustyknight, each dealer pretty much does what they want. All I am saying is this is bad policy for GM to permit to go on.

Customers have really no way of knowing what a dealer order policy is until you place that order. And then you are somewhat stuck unless you are willing to fly to who knows where to place your order.

This is Not a rant but an seminar for members to understand some of the behind the curtain dealer business practices.

Thanks to all for contributing.
:thumbs:
 

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Thanks to all for the info.

It seems many of us placed a deposit ... and the dealership choose not to place a name into the GM order system. Period.

Many here have stated they asked their dealers for an the official GM order number and are refused. It appears theses dealers are keeping a list in the office file and once they get an allocation for a manual or automatic they then submit and receive the GM order number.

By doing it that way the customer is S.O.L. as far as price protection.

As Deluke stated, and Rustyknight, each dealer pretty much does what they want. All I am saying is this is bad policy for GM to permit to go on.

Customers have really no way of knowing what a dealer order policy is until you place that order. And then you are somewhat stuck unless you are willing to fly to who knows where to place your order.

This is Not a rant but an seminar for members to understand some of the behind the curtain dealer business practices.

Thanks to all for contributing.
:thumbs:

I agree, I think GM should make it their policy when you place a deposit they should enter it and give you a order number. I think it's terrible that the customer is the one who is going to have to pay the increase because the dealer didn't want to input the order at that time ? I wonder if it would stand up in Small Claims court if you decided to take your dealership for the 1,000.00 ? Any lawyers out there ?
 

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I think a lawyer would be hard pressed to be able to create a case on this. Basically I think unless you are wiling to withhold the order from the dealer, unless they guarantee to place the order into the system you have no recourse to the courts or GM or anyone.

:banghead:

The whole thing boils down to finding a good dealer.

Good Luck :thumbs:
 

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a/ So from what you have said, it is GM's policy not to require each dealer to forward every deposited "Vehicle Purchase Agreement" for the official "Order Number".
Some dealers do submit deposited orders, thereby price protecting their customer. Mean while, other dealers follow GM's policy and their customers have no price protection.
GM doesn't have a policy for this but, it is in the Retailers best interest to put as many legitimate orders in the Preliminary Queue because this will let GM know how many people are waiting for any specific model and gives GM a good idea what is more popular and what is NOT.

Remember, to the Retailer, price protection is not an incentive or a detriment, the Retailer is not affected either way, because they get the money anyways. I'm sure that the mayority of those Retailers not submitting deposited orders as Preliminary Orders are not doing it with malice, they are just doing it due to pure and simple IGNORANCE; sad to say but true.

GetAboutRL said:
c/ So, if it is opitional for dealers ...why would any dealer not submit deposited orders? (always follow the money!)

We all have read the threads about concern's dealers may have about not get reimbursed and the lenghty paper work discourages them. But their customer (the unprotected price increased customer) gets stuck paying $1,000 plus.

The dealers get reimbursed from GM and keep's the extra profit charged customers ... and GM? They can control assembly cost and raise the price on all those non-price protected pending orders ... sweet.
As I mentioned above, I believe it is only because of IGNORANCE because it makes no difference to the Retailer if you are Price Protected or not.

The process for Price Protection is really simple, the Sale MUST be reported to GM the same EXACT way the Preliminary Order was originaly submitted, in other words, if your Preliminary Order was put in on the GM Dealer World system as John A Smith your Sale MUST be reported to GM as John A Smith. If it's reported ANY OTHER WAY, Johnny Smith, John Smith and/or there is something that doesn't match EXACTLY on the address or the phone number, THEN your order will NOT be PRICE PROTECTED. The tricky part is that the Retailer MUST have paperwork to PROVE is necessary to GM that they submitted an ELEGIBLE Price Protected Order.

Retailers DO NOT get reimbursed for Sales that where NOT Price Protected; they must show proof of Sale Pricefor them to be paid back. :nono:

GetAboutRL said:
d/ Is there a way (such as rebate request form) for these financially harmed customers to recover their lost through GM since it is their policy that is causing some customers to be financially harmed?
Or, from the dealer since it is the dealer, since they chooses not to submit your deposited order but hold it until GM communicates their allotment?
Take a guess who GM is pointing at ... oh yea .. the dealer! And guess who the dealer is pointing at ... it is GM's policy! But guess who's wallet get's pinched? Ouch! :eek:
I don't think there is any other way but either talk to some higher up at the Retailer or to try to get to someone at GM to listen. Not sure what else to tell you...

Regards,

BA...
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Good seminar ... educational to all who took the time to read and follow the process. :)

This thread continues to be a great source of enlightenment.

Thank you all!

:cheers:
 

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No offense, but no decent lawyer would touch this case with a ten foot pole--UNLESS you give him (put up your cash) a contingency fee, say about $5,000-$10,000 to start, plus expenses--Oh, and by the way, there is no guarantee you will win--:willy: I tried to hire a lawyer to sue a chevy dealer for false advertising, after initial contact, and a couple hundred "feeler" fee--he came back and wanted $4K up front plus expenses to persue case--yaw right--:banghead:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
MidnightBlues, it sounds like you have been down a similar path.
And both GM and the dealers are betting on most customers just paying up rather than fight.

First, small claims court is an option. You represent yourself and the fees are token. If the Hearing Judge rules in your favor (and my lawyer friends and I think a judge would) then dealership will be under court order to reimburse you.

Second option, if enough financially harmed customers filed a class action the cost of a lawyer and fees would be spread out among many.

Each action has plus and minuses of course.

Third option, get your car and speak with dealership owner and explain your dissatisfaction and give a lousy rating on GM's survey and follow this up with contact to both GM and your State Attoney General's office, Consumer Fraud Unit, local District Attoney and State DMV Fraud Office.

If you feel you are a victim of white collar crime ... stand up and shout ... but wait until you have your car!
:thumbs:
 

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No offense, but no decent lawyer would touch this case with a ten foot pole--UNLESS you give him (put up your cash) a contingency fee, say about $5,000-$10,000 to start, plus expenses--Oh, and by the way, there is no guarantee you will win--:willy: I tried to hire a lawyer to sue a chevy dealer for false advertising, after initial contact, and a couple hundred "feeler" fee--he came back and wanted $4K up front plus expenses to persue case--yaw right--:banghead:
I wasn't talking lawyer I said small claims court. You don't need a lawyer for small claims you go yourself. There is also a max dollar amount that you can take to small claims. It use to be 2500.00 but I'm sure it went up to 3000.00 or more. Anyone would be crazy to get a lawyer !!

You should of took yours to small claims for the smaller dollar amount.
 

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I wasn't talking lawyer I said small claims court. You don't need a lawyer for small claims you go yourself. There is also a max dollar amount that you can take to small claims. It use to be 2500.00 but I'm sure it went up to 3000.00 or more. Anyone would be crazy to get a lawyer !!

You should of took yours to small claims for the smaller dollar amount.
We thought about that, but we're talking over $10,000 give or take, small claims would of not worked in this case. Unfortunately. :willy:
 

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We thought about that, but we're talking over $10,000 give or take, small claims would of not worked in this case. Unfortunately. :willy:

No it wouldn't of. Unless you would of been happy with the lower amount. That would of been better then paying a lawyer 4 or 5 thousand and then you still might not win.
 

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No it wouldn't of. Unless you would of been happy with the lower amount. That would of been better then paying a lawyer 4 or 5 thousand and then you still might not win.
With all due respect. You do not know the facts. We did not want money, we wanted to buy the car at the advertised price, they refused. It's that simple. In Florida there are laws in force to protect consumers from false advertising to bring customers into the show room, that was the premise. They advertise super low prices and once these dealers get you in, they figure the odds are on their side that they will sell you a car--any car, or they do what they have done in the past, "oh no, that car was already sold this morning" or they play bait & switch.. I did not want money from them, nor another car, I wanted them to honor the price for the car they advertised in the newspaper, I had the cash in hand, ready to buy it, small claims would of thrown the case out, waste of my time--At this point I'll agree to disagree with you, thats all I am going to say on my matter. Lets just get back on topic. :thumbs: My case is over and water under the bridge-:D
 

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With all due respect. You do not know the facts. We did not want money, we wanted to buy the car at the advertised price, they refused. It's that simple. In Florida there are laws in force to protect consumers from false advertising to bring customers into the show room, that was the premise. They advertise super low prices and once these dealers get you in, they figure the odds are on their side that they will sell you a car--any car, or they do what they have done in the past, "oh no, that car was already sold this morning" or they play bait & switch.. I did not want money from them, nor another car, I wanted them to honor the price for the car they advertised in the newspaper, I had the cash in hand, ready to buy it, small claims would of thrown the case out, waste of my time--At this point I'll agree to disagree with you, thats all I am going to say on my matter. Lets just get back on topic. :thumbs: My case is over and water under the bridge-:D
I didn't mean to get you all upset ! If you posted the facts I wouldn't of replied what I did. But you said you thought about small claims so I thought it was for add on's only. Please don't get all excited, with all due respect. :) Did you end up getting the Sky ? It's too bad some dealerships have to act this way.
 

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I didn't mean to get you all upset ! If you posted the facts I wouldn't of replied what I did. But you said you thought about small claims so I thought it was for add on's only. Please don't get all excited, with all due respect. :) Did you end up getting the Sky ? It's too bad some dealerships have to act this way.
:lol: I'm not upset at all my friend hehe, Oh yea I have my Sky alrite, the episode I had was with with a chevy dealer--Like I said no biggie--I'm veeerry happy with my sky purchase--Have a great Day!!!--:thumbs:
 
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