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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
In 1987 The Buick Grand National came out with a limited production hi-po model, the GNX. The Hi-Po motor different body accents, the whole works, plus dash number plates and documentation.

The Redline Sky is in the same sitiation. People are already saying they are going to buy the rear facsia and such for stock Redlines. Some have indicated that the vin will not be different for the redline. No special documentation at all.

What will keep people from mqking clones and cut into the value of the Redline down the Road.
Buick had a unique idea in 1987 you couldn't buy the GNX parts except if you had a GNX Dash number and documentation. This took out the clones and Kept the value of the GNX high.

Do you think that Saturn should do this or increase documentation on the Redline to protect Redline buyers investment?
 

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Eye on Sky said:
What will keep people from making clones and cut into the value of the Redline down the Road?
That magnificent D.I. twin-scroll turbo engine!! Who cares if ppl modify their base skys to LOOK like the Red Line... Unless they put that engine in (which would be prohibitively expensive after the fact...) it won't BE a Red Line.
 

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Axel said:
That magnificent D.I. twin-scroll turbo engine!! Who cares if ppl modify their base skys to LOOK like the Red Line... Unless they put that engine in (which would be prohibitively expensive after the fact...) it won't BE a Red Line.
:agree:

But some people could think the opposite direction: Base rear fascia and single tip exhaust, without RL badges and base front bumper - only the engine counts. :thumbs:
Thats understatement :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Who cares the people who bought a exclusive car.

I would prefer the Redline have some unique appeal for the numbers that will be out there. That engine is starting out now but in a few years it maybe in a vue or a cobalt. A wreck could be a cheap mule to make this clone that has no documentation to verify( I mean the Redline no doc).
A Grand National GNX goes for over three to four times the value of a regular Grand National today. Why documentation ( Vin' Number interior Plates, exclusive interior and exterior parts that were not made available to anyone but the GNX owners.

Want a RedLine buy a RedLine, Want to Change the look or performance of the Base Sky buy aftermarket.
 

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It doesn't really bother me that much. Of course, I would like it to look at least a little different, but people are gonna do what they are goona do. Just look at Mustang owners. Don't you think it aggravates some of them that they spent $30k on a Cobra or (even sadder) a GT, and yet some kid who has a much cheaper V6 model can swap badges, or maybe hoods and wheels? I'm sure it does, but it's gonna happen. BUT, on the other hand, if you're any kind of enthusiast, you can tell the difference between the wanna-be's with the fake badges and swapped hoods, fascias, and wheels. I'm sure it will be the same with the sky.

If it bothers you that much, maybe you should look into doing some custom bodywork or whatever to it.
 

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I think that trying to pass you car off as something it is not is not very cool. However putting dual exhaust/ the redline rear facia on a regular Sky is FAR from cloning. There is a difference between tying to enhance the look of your car and trying to pass it off as something it is not. For instance I know of a few of my friends put an SS hood on thier V6 camaro, in no way was it to try to say they had an SS, they just liked the look and perfomace of the SS hood.

But thats just my $.02
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
No one will mistake a V-6 for a v-8

The Sky will be a lot easier to clone than a Mustang or Camaro. Put on the body panels on a V-6 Camaro or Mustang open the hood you know it is not a Cobra or Z both that have vin Idenitification.

If you do this to a Sky and put in a turbo motor how do you tell real from fake?
My example of Buick Gnx being worth 3-4 times what a regular Grand National goes for, if you spend 3-4 thousand to clone(The cost of just buying a RedLine) you could possibly make a substantial wind fall, while diluting the Real Redline value down the road.
 

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The difference is the GNX was MEANT to be a special car. IIRC Buick had another Regal with the GNX engine...the T-top...and it was nothing special to look at. Then after the GNX went bye bye that 3800 series I turbo engine found it's way into the Turbo Trans Am...also a fairly collectable car.

The Redline is not meant to be a special car anymore than the Ion Redline is a special car. The Redline cars are just the upper trim level from the base car.

As for the Mustangs...I have seen a V6 stang made up to look like a Saleen Mustang. Body kit, exhaust, everything. Very sad. You will have people doing this with the Sky too. I know I want a dual exhaust and the rear facia to go with it. Aftermarket can be prohibitavly expsensive unless the demand is so great they can sell large numbers of a product. In the Grand Prix world, hoods for our cars START at $700. In the import world they are a lot less because the demand is a lot more. So sometimes factory "options" can be had for less than aftermarket ones.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The Mclaren built motor

Was only used in 1987 Gnx and 1989 TransAm special, as you said very collectable. (There is absolutely no base Regal with McLaren preped motor. )Why exclusiveness and low numbers. Low numbers 1000-3000.

Hey the redline was meant to be special, what will the numbers be? 1000-3000. It looks like a match to GNX.

What is the GNX, a Saleen Mustang, 89 Trans Am a option of a base car. You made your argument they are all based on the base model, but they have vins and documents to verify status. Not the Redline.

I would like to see Saturn change the vin add documentation so at time of sale there is no question this is a original limited edition Sky. Then I would have no problems with clones.

Because they would never be able to effect the collectabilty of My original Redline.
 

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Eye on Sky said:
. Some have indicated that the vin will not be different for the redline. ?
Some are wrong about the VIN
 

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ruledawg said:
I think that trying to pass you car off as something it is not is not very cool. However putting dual exhaust/ the redline rear facia on a regular Sky is FAR from cloning. There is a difference between tying to enhance the look of your car and trying to pass it off as something it is not. For instance I know of a few of my friends put an SS hood on thier V6 camaro, in no way was it to try to say they had an SS, they just liked the look and perfomace of the SS hood.

But thats just my $.02
:agree: ...... I'll be buying the RL facia and dual exhaust and possibly a turbo a few years down the road but I don't consider that cloning at all. I'm not a big fan of fake badges on V6 mustangs made to look like Saleens either so don't worry, I won't be changing anything externally to look like a RL.
 

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I am like USMC, I will probably purchase some upgraded parts. But I am not interested in trying to pass it off as something it is not. :cool:
 

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Eye on Sky said:
Was only used in 1987 Gnx and 1989 TransAm special, as you said very collectable. (There is absolutely no base Regal with McLaren preped motor. )Why exclusiveness and low numbers. Low numbers 1000-3000.

Hey the redline was meant to be special, what will the numbers be? 1000-3000. It looks like a match to GNX.

What is the GNX, a Saleen Mustang, 89 Trans Am a option of a base car. You made your argument they are all based on the base model, but they have vins and documents to verify status. Not the Redline.

I would like to see Saturn change the vin add documentation so at time of sale there is no question this is a original limited edition Sky. Then I would have no problems with clones.

Because they would never be able to effect the collectabilty of My original Redline.
I wasn't sure about the Buick T-top because folks keep mentioning them in the same breath as the GN and GNX.

As for the base model issue...the Buick is the only one that I don't know the various trim levels. But for a Trans Am...you have the Firebird and Trans-Am. In later years there was the WS6 package on the Trans-Am. Specialty cars included the Firehawk, Turbo Trans-Am, and Indy 500 Pace Car editions. (probably more but all I can think of off the top of my head.

Mustang is the same way. You have a base model (V6) and an upper model (V8 with GT badging). Then you have Saleens, Cobras, Shelbys, and Roushes. All of these modified off the GT to various levels.

The Redline, and the GXP for the Solstice, are the equivilant to the GT Mustang and Trans-Am as far as specialty vehicles. They are the upper trim level of a two-trim level sports vehicle. The GNX, Turbo Trans-Am, and the specialty 'stangs are in a different league all together and were developed only after the car they were based on had a strong linage. Also, as you mentioned, limited production runs vs. standard production models. With only 10,000 units built this year, the Sky is already seeing fairly limited production. A Redline version will be more limited but not so limited when compared to the total number of Skies built.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
How many Mustangs sell in a year?

How many Camaros sold in a year in production? 100,000 -200,000 maybe more.

The Sky is limited production(10000) and just like all the cars mentioned are based on the base model. Now with 1000-3000 SKy Redlines it is even more limited production. It meets the criteria Of the GNX (McLaren Preped motor) the Sky with 2.00 Turbo motor.

I just think Saturn should protect with vin and documentation to protect Redline owners of these very limited cars.

There are back orders now but if GM thought this would last they wouldn't have a problem ramping up production on another line. But they do have a problem buyers are fickle. If the Sky only has a three year run, say when the new Camaro becomes the hot lash. The collector value would soar for both Sky and Redline but real original Redline prices would soar far above a base Sky based on sheer numbers.

When i said Vin I meant changing it entirely and starting at oo1 not having
same Vin 4000 SKy Vin 4001 Redline and so on. I am talking about true difference thats all
 

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Eye on Sky said:
How many Camaros sold in a year in production? 100,000 -200,000 maybe more.

The Sky is limited production(10000) and just like all the cars mentioned are based on the base model. Now with 1000-3000 SKy Redlines it is even more limited production. It meets the criteria Of the GNX (McLaren Preped motor) the Sky with 2.00 Turbo motor.

I just think Saturn should protect with vin and documentation to protect Redline owners of these very limited cars.

There are back orders now but if GM thought this would last they wouldn't have a problem ramping up production on another line. But they do have a problem buyers are fickle. If the Sky only has a three year run, say when the new Camaro becomes the hot lash. The collector value would soar for both Sky and Redline but real original Redline prices would soar far above a base Sky based on sheer numbers.

When i said Vin I meant changing it entirely and starting at oo1 not having
same Vin 4000 SKy Vin 4001 Redline and so on. I am talking about true difference thats all

You bring up some very good points. Bear in mind that the Camaro might not be the only car to effect car sales with a new Challenger on the horizon as well. Some that are waiting for a SKY may jump ship to either one of the new models.
 

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There is an appearance package for the ION 3 Quad w/EPP which makes it look like an ION Redline, only without the Recaro seats and manual transmission. Factory-authorized clone?

Personally I don't like spending money on appearance items (except those that keep the car looking good of course, like wax/polish etc). Lots of GTO owners are spending thousands of $$$ to make their Pontiac look like a Holden. Whatever, I say. But if somebody wants to dual-exhaust their n/a SKY that's cool by me. I like that look, but I wouldnt' do it myself if I had a n/a SKY. The front change might actually be a slight performance enhancement to the regular SKY by adding the vent port to help cool the brakes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
No problem with modifing

I have nothing against people modifing there cars, that is the American way.

But I just brought up this post because I think Saturn should do something to insure that original Sky Redline owners are fully documented to tell them apart from a very good clone down the road. Look at Hemmings Antique Auto expert book look how much a Chevelle SS with documentation goes as compared to a clone. The amounts are enormous.

I just want to protect the value as any car guy should.
 

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There will be different VINs of course. Just like the VINs on an ION 2 or ION 3 are different. You can't legally fake that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
SkySpy said it would be a just in sequence

It would be just in sequence as any other Sky.

example vin 4000 Sky 4001 Sky Redline 4002 Sky 4003 Sky
 

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Eye on Sky said:
It would be just in sequence as any other Sky.

example vin 4000 Sky 4001 Sky Redline 4002 Sky 4003 Sky
Ernest will be able to tell you when he gets his. :thumbs:
 
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