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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
GM has announced that by 2035 it will no longer manufactures gas or diesel cars.
I’m not quite sure how to feel. On one hand I’m waxing poetically/romantically about all the cars, trucks, motorcycles and ICE (Internal Combustion Engines) vehicle’s I’ve owned or ones I’ve lusted for.
Something about the sound of a 4 barrel carburetor opening up and the exhaust music from a mighty V8. Yes I know carburetors have been replaced years ago and fuel injection has improved reliability and performance. The reality of technology and progress only increases my memories through an even more powerful pair of rose colored glasses.
My first job was working at a service station..... pumping gas, checking oil, cleaning windshields.... green stamps, premiums/gifts with a fill up and more.
Self service replaced those jobs and now before you know it, gas stations will be eventually replaced with charging stations.
With the looming reality that fossil fueled vehicles are facing eventual extinction; What are your thoughts?
 

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This sounds like a flash-back to the beginning of the last century and those who waxed nostalgic about horses and buggy whips.

Just because they are not planning to sell them any more does not mean that they are suddenly going to disappear.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
This sounds like a flash-back to the beginning of the last century and those who waxed nostalgic about horses and buggy whips.

Just because they are not planning to sell them any more does not mean that they are suddenly going to disappear.
In a previous life I also waxed nostalgic about the demise of whale 🐳 oil and coal... 🥸
 

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Personally I prefer the sound or non-sound of fuel injection to the roar of a carb pouring fuel (often somewhat indiscriminately) down the bores resulting in half the engine life you get with an injected engine.
 

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Personally I prefer the sound or non-sound of fuel injection to the roar of a carb pouring fuel (often somewhat indiscriminately) down the bores resulting in half the engine life you get with an injected engine.
I respect that. However as a broke 16 year old with a 68 GTO convertible to support, the sound of the 4 barrel carb was intoxicating.
 

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Naw, the sixpack on my big block Chrysler sounded lots better :p
best of all were the 12 Weber throats opening up on an Italian car I owned.

The sound of a four barrel just makes me think of a wallet being shredded. But then we are both talking about history here. The current sound of the fastest cars out there is a faint whoosh as that Tesla accelerates past whatever gas driven car you have (sadly).
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The whoosh of a Tesla..... perhaps 🤔 improved with baseball ⚾ cards put in the spokes for effect?
 

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GM phasing out gas and diesel vehicles in 14 years sounds extremely aggressive. We will see if that will actually happen. Maybe it will go the same way as converting to the metric system in the early 80's, today being a mixture of both English and Metric. On the surface, it is an attractive goal to achieve for the greater good, but will it meet every demand under every condition like we have today? How long will you be able to drive an electric vehicle and at the same time keep you warm inside when it is 10 below zero? How fast would recharge/recovery take? Maybe the plan is to replace long distance driving with electric railways. That will be a very difficult adjustment, one I personally would have great difficulty with.

We own a motor home and enjoy travelling cross country. Such travel might be phased out. We could be talking about motor homes like we talk about the covered wagon today.....another piece of American history.
 

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It is inevitable. Not sure what that future looks like as we are on this weird cusp of a chasm or promised land.
Current energy infrastructure is still not where it's at in US let alone globally. Lots of marketing ev fast charging but the realities of supporting high voltage hubs aren't there. How many homes can accomodate multiple L2 chargers let alone L3 and maintain normal electric home usage? That's alot of ICE market revenue on the table to simply flip over to and EV mfg all at once.
 

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I feel like the gas engine will be around for quite a while longer, even on RVs and such for special applications. The vast majority of commuter cars will go electric, but as said, there are edge cases where electric either won't work or is impractical. So someone will make ICE for a while, or they will become special order items. Car dealers and auto mechanics will have a lot to learn and adjust to! I really wanted an electric car before I got my Sky... so I'll still need to learn about all this electric power stuff when it's more readily available, for racing.
 

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How many homes can accomodate multiple L2 chargers let alone L3 and maintain normal electric home usage? That's alot of ICE market revenue on the table to simply flip over to and EV mfg all at once.
Very, very few people need even an L2 charger at home. GM modeled this with Volt--most people are simply not traveling that far each day. With the Volt the intent was to use the gas generator if you were going to travel beyond the distance provided by the battery, but it's just the same with a pure EV--the few people who do travel long distances each day can fit an L2 charger at home to load enough capacity overnight. The rest can use public fast chargers to cover their long distance driving needs.

The bigger challenge will be providing the charging infrastructure for those without a place to plug-in over night.
 

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This announcement by GM is a bold move and strategy for the future of the automotive industry.
With alternative energy solutions becoming more common among car manufacturers through out the world market, the options available now to the market and consumer,
will be different in their scope and maybe the perception for the consumer in 15 years or so.

Advancements in batteries, technology, infrastructure in not just electrical power for vehicles, but for everyday applications in going greener in our future, renewable sources, lower emissions, new regulations carbon footprint to our planet. Solar, wind, hydrogen cells, bio-fuels, methane- Road Warrior pig sh*t and their associated costs, to say nothing of what long term projections for fossil fuels will be 15 years for now.

With the world wide population owning some form of gas/diesel powered vehicles the parts/repair industry will stay for quite some time imo. Even if the all manufactures switch over full time to just producing non gas/diesel fueled production, the learning curve will be new for everyone switching production from carburetor fuel injection based models available after 100 years in dealer showrooms for consumers.
How will consumer confidence be in purchasing an electrical powered vehicle, over what it is now with models available in 15 years.

Every home/garage will have to be updated with a charging unit for their new purchase. Every new home built will have to come with this option, before the keys are handed over. Real estate agent will be put under the huge pressure to find the right home for us, if they want the sales commission profit. Many unanswered questions remain for the public and the auto industry. I can see this vision by 2050 but no one can foresee the future.

Listening to the roar of the V8's now- watching the 24 Hrs. of Daytona and it is snowing outside my window. No driving for me. Go-Pro replay from June is queued up just say'n.
The sound of the motors, Ferrari, the AMG hammer, the DPi, the Porsche 6 wail, racing their asses off, nothing quiet about it, but it might be a sound disappearing from our history. The sound of the 4 bbl carb draw, the exhaust note with the cam lope, the turbo spool, the supercharger whine, the smell of race fuel, to the ever changing totals on the gas pump, the fuel level going up, your bank account going down.
This will not change for US in 15 years because the auto industry has changed gears.

Your car fuel/battery level will be replaced, your bank account will still take a hit, if you want to have personal travel for me freedom option as your mode of transport. A bike or a horse
is an option should you choose this as a choice for getting around for everyday usage.
Electric bike- need a charger. Horse eats a lot and the Vet bills rival replacing the WP
in our cars. U pay for personal usage- no matter the mode of choice or how it is fueled
by sources available. Foot power needs fuel- food and decent pair of- comfortable shoes for trips to the job, store, location of choice. Point A to Point B is it the location or the
journey there. How you arrive, and in what mode doesn't matter so long as you do get
there safely.

LAC
 

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Very, very few people need even an L2 charger at home. GM modeled this with Volt--most people are simply not traveling that far each day. With the Volt the intent was to use the gas generator if you were going to travel beyond the distance provided by the battery, but it's just the same with a pure EV--the few people who do travel long distances each day can fit an L2 charger at home to load enough capacity overnight. The rest can use public fast chargers to cover their long distance driving needs.

The bigger challenge will be providing the charging infrastructure for those without a place to plug-in over night.
Absolutely true.

Keep in mind too that this is an announcement for 14 years from now. How much is going to change between now and then? How much has changed in the last 14 years?

I know that we like to get excited about things, but this is a little too far in the uncertain future to really be concerned about.

More than likely, given the current political climate, IC engines and the use of fossil fuels will be banned long before any manufacturer voluntarily stops producing them.
 

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We all know about CA emission laws and who supports them and who doesn't. No political response needed, but we all knew if one side won over the other in the last election, that it would push electric one way or another. We all knew this before November. With that said, going all electric in 14 years is going to do 1 of 2 things. It's either going to make GM (I think Ford's agenda is much quicker) a 3 company again, or it's going to bankrupt US auto makers. If I had to bet, it's the later. There are many other "options" for them to explore before closing the doors on them. Hydrogen, Diesel hybrid power, and even Ultra High Pressure Direct Injection (or what was known as High Carbon Combustion Injection). For all of the people supporting this, remember, with electric comes the loss of driving and ownership of the vehicle. This is what all of the major players are pushing for...because it's EXTREMLY profitable for them. But they haven't thought that far ahead yet. Many cities where public transportation already exhists (New York, Chicago) will destroy this pipedream that GM, Ford and others are having with going all electric. BOSCH, a major OE supplier for the electric market came out and said electric is not sustainable and we don't see any benefit too it.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
This forum continues to amaze me with the wealth of knowledge of it’s members. I’m trying to figure imagine the future with alternative energy powered vehicles.
I find myself fortunate to have enjoyed a vast variety of fairly affordable vehicles in my lifetime. Before ones carbon footprint was measured.
I hope future generations will be able to enjoy a version of automobiles, trucks, boat’s, ATV’s, snowmobiles, personal aircraft and a vast variety of other toys too numerous to list that will be considered planet/carbon footprint friendly. New technology from prior experience comes at a cost that usually decreases over time. Perhaps future generations will be on this forum keeping Saturn Sky’s powered by a new and improved version of the “flux capacitor”, designed by Doc. Brown’s great, great grandchild.
 

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We all know about CA emission laws and who supports them and who doesn't. No political response needed, but we all knew if one side won over the other in the last election, that it would push electric one way or another. We all knew this before November. With that said, going all electric in 14 years is going to do 1 of 2 things. It's either going to make GM (I think Ford's agenda is much quicker) a 3 company again, or it's going to bankrupt US auto makers. If I had to bet, it's the later. There are many other "options" for them to explore before closing the doors on them. Hydrogen, Diesel hybrid power, and even Ultra High Pressure Direct Injection (or what was known as High Carbon Combustion Injection). For all of the people supporting this, remember, with electric comes the loss of driving and ownership of the vehicle. This is what all of the major players are pushing for...because it's EXTREMLY profitable for them. But they haven't thought that far ahead yet. Many cities where public transportation already exhists (New York, Chicago) will destroy this pipedream that GM, Ford and others are having with going all electric. BOSCH, a major OE supplier for the electric market came out and said electric is not sustainable and we don't see any benefit too it.
I suspect that if the infrastructure isn't in place, all of the plans will be delayed. Keep in mind that this is a plan, not an absolute, and plans have a way of changing.

Why would all-electric mean the end of driving and private ownership?

I think that Fehrenbach's comments were aimed more at government deadlines for EV adoption than at industry plans.
 

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Current Level 1 charging affords about 8km charge per hr. L2 is about 30km/hr charge. L3 ...100km/hr. To push that much electrons, at home you have to make sure your house amps are up to snuff. My garage currently can accommodate one L2. Not sure if it has capacity for another without additional electrical reno.
Extrapolating that need if you live in an apartment/condo that has hundreds of units with hundreds of potential EVs, how does the regional grid keep up?

I will not bother with an intermediate PHEV. It's a compromised propulsion temporary tech. Either stick with ICE or go full on BEV. I only have three main criteria before I go through to the EV "gate".
Min. 400km Range (reached)
Charging stations as prevalent as gas stations. (waiting)
<5 min charge from 0-full. That's what I am used to. I don't even like lining up at Costco for gas. (waiting)

And of course more choices for good looking EVs. Really dig the Polestars and Mustang E. Looking forward to more. Next few years will be interesting.
 

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Why would all-electric mean the end of driving and private ownership?
Every seminar/meeting that I sat through regarding electrification was on how cars will all be self driving and only the elite will own cars because of pricing. We will all pay a monthly/yearly subscription just to be able to "hail" a ride service. Then you will pay a per mileage charge as well for wherever you're going. If you chose to go cheap, there could be 1, 2, 10 other people in this vehicle with you. Much like public transportation. And from my understanding, cheap is about the only way the average household will be able to go anywhere. This was all slated for 15-20 years from all the tier 1 suppliers and OEs. Vehicles will have an in-excess price of over $400k in current money because of all of the technology that will be required. They will gradually start to phase out "drivable" cars starting in the next 8-10 years, and will fully be phased out in 15 years. Drivable cars will no longer be legal to street all because there are too many variables with human drivers that AI can't account for currently. Again, this was all the "Big Picture" from the Tier 1s and OEs in about 10 seminars and meetings I was involved in over the last 2 years.

The non-driving part is already happening. Look at today's youth. The average age now that a person gets their license is something like 24. Millennials don't bother with cars. A vehicle is THE single most ludicrous invest that we make. Let alone 2 vehicles!!! Or a weekend vehicle like most of our cars!!! It's the only invest that spends ~97% of it's life not being used for the price we pay. Even a "well used" car only spends ~14% of it's life being used. And millennials are aware of this fact. However, since people are now moving out of the big cities because of the pandemic, this may all change.
 

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I think your seminars may be a little deluded, but time will tell. I do not see any reason to expect the motive power of a car to change the idea of ownership. Autonomous operation may, but i don't really see that happening either, except for the urbanites who have to pay more for a place to park their car than they do for a place to sleep.

I have seen the studies about millemials (or whoever) that do not want to own cars, but the latest commentary on those studies is that they were a bit flawed. While it is true that fewer of them own cars, the reason is a lack of money, not a lack of desire. I guess time will tell on that one as well.
 
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