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2007 Pontiac Solstice GXP: Pontiac ’s product resurgence zooms forward with the introduction of the 2007 Solstice GXP, the performance version of its in-demand Solstice roadster. Solstice GXP features GM’s all-new Ecotec 2.0-liter turbo with direct injection technology, the most powerful production engine in the Ecotec family.

http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewpressreldetail.do?domain=2&docid=21427

This looks good as the Sky Redline would share the same drivetrain components.
 

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so its officially a turbo... I hadn't heard much about the turbo/sc debate lately. thought maybe I missed something.
 

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Sweet!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Delnari said:
2007 Pontiac Solstice GXP: Pontiac ’s product resurgence zooms forward with the introduction of the 2007 Solstice GXP, the performance version of its in-demand Solstice roadster. Solstice GXP features GM’s all-new Ecotec 2.0-liter turbo with direct injection technology, the most powerful production engine in the Ecotec family.

http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewpressreldetail.do?domain=2&docid=21427

This looks good as the Sky Redline would share the same drivetrain components.
"the most powerful production engine in the Ecotec family"

This would make it better than the current 2.2L ECOTEC turbo rated at 240 hp in Europe. My guess is 253 hp! It will be officially announced come January.
 

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I was scared the redline and GXP versions were only gonna be 205 - 240hp. Really hoping it's atleast 253hp I would freak if they add more like 300hp, like the Aura is suppost to be around.

Go GM,.. woop woop!!!:cheers:

I was a little worried when at the SEMA Auto show the Solstice had only a "supercharged" 240hp engine. my fears set to rest.:)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
If you really want a Sky Redline, you better make your deal with your local Saturn dealer now! The 2007 production run on them will be very limited! Don't expect to see more than 1 per dealer next year.

I would estimate the price tag for a fully loaded Redline to come in just under $29k. Street value will immediately be $4k-$6k over that. Make your deal now to get one, if you are not number 1 on the dealer's list, keeping shopping around.
 

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Delnari said:
If you really want a Sky Redline, you better make your deal with your local Saturn dealer now! The 2007 production run on them will be very limited! Don't expect to see more than 1 per dealer next year.

I would estimate the price tag for a fully loaded Redline to come in just under $29k. Street value will immediately be $4k-$6k over that. Make your deal now to get one, if you are not number 1 on the dealer's list, keeping shopping around.
1 per dealer? I thought there's only like 625 Saturn Retailers?

A bit of a "sniff test" here with simple math:

You're saying they will only make 625 Sky Redlines from the start of the 2007 model year to the end of the 2007 calendar year?

This seems awfully low to me.

Or are you saying they will only make 625 Sky Redlines for the entire 2007 model year? That's too low to even matter.

If the model year run for Skys in total is around 10,000, that's only 6% of the total intended volume.

Nah, I don't buy it. I have to imagine at least 10% of the Sky volume will be redline. Maybe more like 25%... which means FOUR per dealer on average over the model year run.

As far as charging in excess of sticker, I thought SD and SS said they will be charging MSRP for their products... or did I miss something here.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
KappaMan said:
1 per dealer? I thought there's only like 625 Saturn Retailers?

A bit of a "sniff test" here with simple math:

You're saying they will only make 625 Sky Redlines from the start of the 2007 model year to the end of the 2007 calendar year?

This seems awfully low to me.

Or are you saying they will only make 625 Sky Redlines for the entire 2007 model year? That's too low to even matter.

If the model year run for Skys in total is around 10,000, that's only 6% of the total intended volume.

Nah, I don't buy it. I have to imagine at least 10% of the Sky volume will be redline. Maybe more like 25%... which means FOUR per dealer on average over the model year run.

As far as charging in excess of sticker, I thought SD and SS said they will be charging MSRP for their products... or did I miss something here.
Redlines and GXP models will be very limited the first year, from what I'm hearing. Expect no more than 1000 each next calander year. Only the top dealerships will get more than one to sell but no more than 2-3. GM doesn't expect to push the uplevel cars the first year as it will only be a marketing promotion for 2007. Backorders of the regular version is still the driving force and should continue into early 2007 calendar year.
 

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Delnari said:
Redlines and GXP models will be very limited the first year, from what I'm hearing. Expect no more than 1000 each next calander year. Only the top dealerships will get more than one to sell but no more than 2-3. GM doesn't expect to push the uplevel cars the first year as it will only be a marketing promotion for 2007. Backorders of the regular version is still the driving force and should continue into early 2007 calendar year.
Since all these cars are being ORDERED, doesn't that mean I get whatever I want? If I want a Redline, I order a Redline, does GM care? No. This car is not being "allocated" in the true sense of that word. If I go to a Saturn dealer adn say, I'd like a Redline, they are not going to tell me "Sorry, we sold our only one for this year."
 

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Slade said:
I was scared the redline and GXP versions were only gonna be 205 - 240hp. Really hoping it's atleast 253hp I would freak if they add more like 300hp, like the Aura is suppost to be around.
Dont Push too far...

The 2.5L turbo of Subaru reach 300HP,
I don't think the 2.0 would reach as much power as the 2.5 of Subaru...

Beside isn't the Aura equipped with a V6?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
If you look at the normal ordering of GM cars they put constraints on orders from time to time. They plan and order based on expectations, just look at the Z51 package on the Corvette as an example. I'm not saying you won't be able to order the car, but the dealership will not have the allocations to get your order to go through. Uplevel cars like the Redline are promotional cars that normally get produced in limited quantities for lots reasons, limited parts, special training, warranty issues, etc.

Bottom line, performance cars are a niche market item. The Kappa platform offers a low-priced vehicle to a select market segment. Pumping high-end performance into it makes for good automotive PR, but is not really good for large production numbers. As the Asian car manufacturers have shown making lower priced vehicles in large numbers is what can really boost the bottom line.

You sell cars that people can buy and enjoy all the while keeping your overall costs at a minimum. We have a saying in auto parts business, performance parts cost twice as much and wear out twice as fast! This is one of the reasons why the sport compact car industry is so big, mo money and mo money keeps getting spent by those caught up in it. Selling the performance aftermarket parts makes money for those companies, but manufacturers tend to shy away for various reasons when comes to putting them on from the start.
 

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Delnari said:
2007 Pontiac Solstice GXP: Pontiac ’s product resurgence zooms forward with the introduction of the 2007 Solstice GXP, the performance version of its in-demand Solstice roadster. Solstice GXP features GM’s all-new Ecotec 2.0-liter turbo with direct injection technology, the most powerful production engine in the Ecotec family.

http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewpressreldetail.do?domain=2&docid=21427

This looks good as the Sky Redline would share the same drivetrain components.
I think I'm gonna cry! This is some good news!

Merry christmas to me that was just my gift!
 

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Delnari said:
If you look at the normal ordering of GM cars they put constraints on orders from time to time. They plan and order based on expectations, just look at the Z51 package on the Corvette as an example. I'm not saying you won't be able to order the car, but the dealership will not have the allocations to get your order to go through. Uplevel cars like the Redline are promotional cars that normally get produced in limited quantities for lots reasons, limited parts, special training, warranty issues, etc.

Bottom line, performance cars are a niche market item. The Kappa platform offers a low-priced vehicle to a select market segment. Pumping high-end performance into it makes for good automotive PR, but is not really good for large production numbers. As the Asian car manufacturers have shown making lower priced vehicles in large numbers is what can really boost the bottom line.

You sell cars that people can buy and enjoy all the while keeping your overall costs at a minimum. We have a saying in auto parts business, performance parts cost twice as much and wear out twice as fast! This is one of the reasons why the sport compact car industry is so big, mo money and mo money keeps getting spent by those caught up in it. Selling the performance aftermarket parts makes money for those companies, but manufacturers tend to shy away for various reasons when comes to putting them on from the start.
The problem with most of your points is the Kappa platform is entierly low production, it is basically an "order on demand" platform. Until at least MY 2008 there cars are not going to be shipped to dealers to sit on lots. They will be building cars to cover orders. Besides, if I want a car, I can go to the dealer and order my car the way I want. If they cannot find it they do not tell you "Sorry you can't have this car." They put an order into the factory for your exact options and that's what you get.

My family HAS NEVER bought off the lot, so I am very farmiliar with the ordering process. Anyone who says I cannot get a car specifically tailored to me (within the options offered), as long as the car is currently in production, is lying.
 

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DuSpinnst said:
Since all these cars are being ORDERED, doesn't that mean I get whatever I want? If I want a Redline, I order a Redline, does GM care? No. This car is not being "allocated" in the true sense of that word. If I go to a Saturn dealer adn say, I'd like a Redline, they are not going to tell me "Sorry, we sold our only one for this year."
GM puts restrictions on various options. Like only 10% of cars can be ordered with chrome wheels, for example at certain times. It's mainly due to parts restrictions. So I can easily see GM putting a restriction on GXP orders.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Getting one on these niche cars is a daunting task right now. Orders for the Pontiace Solstice has far exceeded the ability to manufacturer them (correctly). I haven't check this month, but I believe there were 12,000 orders waiting last month. Now add to that mix an uplevel version of both cars and you can see the problem is getting them built, not ordered. GM will need to limit orders until production can get caught up. If you believe you can order a Sky like another Saturn vehicle and have it delivered within 2 months you will be in for a big surprise. There are still orders since May on the Solstice that haven't been delivered and the line is just getting longer and longer.

My point, get to the top of list if you really want one, and want it before the end of next year. I just don't see a lot of these uplevel versions rolling out of the factory in 2006.
 

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Snowy_Beast said:
Dont Push too far...

The 2.5L turbo of Subaru reach 300HP,
I don't think the 2.0 would reach as much power as the 2.5 of Subaru...

Beside isn't the Aura equipped with a V6?
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX - 2.0L i4 = 286HP
Opel OPC Turbocharged ECOTEC - 2.0L i4 = 240HP
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution FQ400 - 2.0L i4 = 400HP

Just a couple examples of OEM high powered 2.0L engines.
The Subaru's in WRC cars actually use 2.0L engines I believe due to engine size restrictions. I could easily see 300HP from this engine, it's just an issue of restrictions imposed by big OEMs like GM that have to build an engine that has to meet certain fuel ecnomy, emissions, warranty standards. I could also easily see this engine making more power over time with refinements throught the years.

Don't forget this is also a direct injection engine unlike most other engines. DI supposedly helps greatly with performance tuned engines for creating much more power at higher compression with far less chance of knock.
 

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brentil said:
GM puts restrictions on various options. Like only 10% of cars can be ordered with chrome wheels, for example at certain times. It's mainly due to parts restrictions. So I can easily see GM putting a restriction on GXP orders.
I've never run into this, sometimes lead time is increased. If you are willing to stick it out for 6-12 week you get what you want. Not many people do that to begin with.
 

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brentil said:
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX - 2.0L i4 = 286HP
Opel OPC Turbocharged ECOTEC - 2.0L i4 = 240HP
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution FQ400 - 2.0L i4 = 400HP

Just a couple examples of OEM high powered 2.0L engines.
The Subaru's in WRC cars actually use 2.0L engines I believe due to engine size restrictions. I could easily see 300HP from this engine, it's just an issue of restrictions imposed by big OEMs like GM that have to build an engine that has to meet certain fuel ecnomy, emissions, warranty standards. I could also easily see this engine making more power over time with refinements throught the years.

Don't forget this is also a direct injection engine unlike most other engines. DI supposedly helps greatly with performance tuned engines for creating much more power at higher compression with far less chance of knock.
You are right about the Wrx, but the Wrx has 225HP compare to the Sti. And the Sti has the 2.5L turbo.
Anyhow, I know you can easly top 300HP with modification but I wasn't awar that Mitsubishi made a 2.0L i4 that had 400HP :willy:

Anyhow, I was reading about the Sky (once again) and fell on this; http://www.saturnfans.com/Cars/Future/skyredline07.shtml
anyone thinks it's true?
 

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actually the fq400's turbo lag is horrendous. just watching an episode of top gear... it was quite the shock. car is great when she's in boost, but when you fall out of the boost, it will take a while to get it back. 400hp from a 2.0 4cyl is not impossible, it takes strong internals to take that level of boost to push out 400hp. i can see alot of piston slap when she's cold in order for the tolerance in the reciprocating parts to allow for higher heat expansion.

its a compromise to minimize turbo lag and getting high hp/torque numbers. given the same turbo setup - ball bearings, blah blah blah - smaller turbo's spools up faster than the larger version. but smaller turbo's reaches its limit sooner as the psi increases, while larger turbo's continues its psi climb.

if the 2.0 ecotec's internals are over engineered, we can see pretty cheap mod's to up the boost to the stock turbo's limit. than we'll start looking into swapping up to larger turbo... :willy: :cool:
 
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