[cieglo]

Does anyone know if this upgrade kit would change a RedLine's SCCA Pax class when autocrossing?
Currently the Redline is classes as BS (makes me chuckle too every time I say it) B-Stock. Would adding this kit #19212670 change that class?

For those of you that installed it, did you have to get your car retuned after the install?

 

[blue rag top]

GMPP Turbo Upgrade

Just ordered the GMPP Upgrade from GMPartsDirect. Only $471.24 and $40.00 for shipping and handling. Total $511.24. Still the cheapest around. Local Chevy dealer took over the local Saturn dealership and some of the Saturn mechanics work at the Chevy dealership now. Stopped in the other day and inquired about the GMPP upgrade and the kit was $660.00. BUT there are two Saturn mechanics there who have experience installing and downloading. I am sure it will be worth it.

 

[TomatoSoup]

See my response on your other thread. Bottom line, make sure those connections are SOLDERED.

 

[Elff]

If you had gone with crate engine depot, you could have avoided soldering or crimping as they include pre made connectors for roughly the same price.
Those connectors are worth every penny

 

[TomatoSoup]

If you had gone with crate engine depot, you could have avoided soldering or crimping as they include pre made connectors for roughly the same price.
Those connectors are worth every penny

Just as I said on his other thread

 

[ErBotta]

in Italy there is no such upgrate :crying:

 

[wspohn]

in Italy there is no such upgrate :crying:

You are better off with a Trifecta anyway, now that warranty is no longer an issue.

I wonder whether they would be able to install a GMPP, though, assuming they use the same instrument there as here for that sort of thing. Bet you could buy the GMPP from Crate Engine/Rock Auto and have them install it in Europe....

 

[ErBotta]

You are better off with a Trifecta anyway, now that warranty is no longer an issue.

I wonder whether they would be able to install a GMPP, though, assuming they use the same instrument there as here for that sort of thing. Bet you could buy the GMPP from Crate Engine/Rock Auto and have them install it in Europe....

I have several friends who have broken the engine with trifecta.
in the old Italian Forum many people have mounted trifecta .... there have been some KO engines.
:surprise:

now I do not know if it depends on a more pushed map, or something else.

here we have a few cars Opel Gt, Saturn SKY, and probably the mechanics do not have much experience on this car.
Consider that I made the frame stiffening bars. the valve canister, the hodovuta ordering in US, because here or I spent 100 € and I had it assembled in the workshop. Used Opel, or I could not find the piece (I solved it on ebay with 30 €).
anyway if I found a map that does not risk breaking the engine, I was happier :wink:

 

[wspohn]

We haven't seen much problem with the Trifecta tunes. Perhaps the ones you saw were victims of the well know ring issue where there were sub ideal end gaps and they ended up pulling the tops off pistons etc. That's just matter of stock GM procedure and anyone that runs any sort of tune can run afoul of that unless they tear down the engine, check piston to wall clearance and end gaps - which most people including me are unwilling to do just as insurance.


Catch 22 - if you did bother to do a tear down to check all that, you might as well stick in some Wiseco forged pistons instead of reassembling with the stock hypereutectic pistons anyway.

Googling for blow ups with Trifecta you find things like the poor guy that thought he had no lift shift with his tune, but didn't, who grenaded his engine. And some of the Cobalt guys are/were real cowboys and tended to push the envelope - hard - and ended up with damaged engines no matter what the tune was, it seems.

When I dealt with Trifecta, I did so with the owner himself and he was very careful to make sure all tunes were safe - we went through 3 or 4 tunes before he narrowed in on something he thought was the most power for the least risk. Bad business to be associated with damaged engines, after all.

 

[Soso2565]

More I read, more I think I'm confused
Does the GMPP and GM turbo upgrade kit?
Does the GMPP come already with the gm turbo kit?

 

[SaturnSkyDude]

More I read, more I think I'm confused
Does the GMPP and GM turbo upgrade kit?
Does the GMPP come already with the gm turbo kit?

GMPP = GM Performance Parts. This is the division that issues the GM Performance Turbo Upgrade kit that I posted in the thread you started (see link below). You (or the dealer) install the kit you received in the mail. Then, you take your car to a local dealer and they will install the tune. Be careful when driving that you don't hit any boost with the new MAP sensors installed or you may go in to limp mode.

lnf-power-pak-ddmworks

_____________________________________________

 

[Soso2565]

Got it
Thanks for the information

 

[squilliam]

There's not much consolidation of information between this and the Sol side so I figured I would try and type out everything that is a known FACT about the GM Stage 2 at this point. I'm running on little sleep so if I miss something let me know :lol:

Availability:
It is current available through Crate Engine Depot, GM Parts Direct, and your dealership. Prices are a little crazy since we have been told GM bumped the price, GM Parts Direct has S&H charges that put it at about the same price as crate engine depot. Price as of 12/17/08 is listed as $550 at crate engine depot. Dealerships do not have it in their part database yet, but they can order it. The systems are updated at specific intervals throughout the year and have not been updated since the parts release. It is part #19212670

A dealership has to install this part due to the necessity of a tech 2 programmer to flash the vehicle's ECU. They will probably charge 1 hours labor to flash te ECU, which it should only take 1 hour to install the whole kit, so why do it yourself?

Currently only available for 07 and 08, 09's are awaiting CARB certification and should be available spring.

Performance:
290hp/340lb.ft for the manual transmissions
290hp/325lb.ft for the automatic's

The one person who has it installed that we know of, a GM Engineer, has reported an overall increase in gas mileage. Manual transmissions get the no-lift shift feature (during heavy acceleration you can push down the clutch without taking your foot off the gas to shift) that helps maintain boost during hard shifting.

The new ECU programming no longer learns down aftermarket parts. For example, the installation of an exhaust on a redline previously gained around 15 horsepower upon installation but after a few times driving the car has reset itself back into the factory power numbers. This no longer occurs.

Those numbers are at the flywheel, NOT wheel numbers like the other tunes, this means that other tunes are putting out more power based on the official numbers. We do not know if the aftermarket tunes are overrated, and there is the possibility the new GM tune is under rated. The GM tune has the potential to be much more in time since the new sensors are good for 300kpa which is 28.5-29lbs of boost. The stock turbo is not capable of putting up those kinds of numbers, this tune will be especially relevant for those with turbo or wheel swaps.

Rev limit is pushed up 250rpm, should allow for 0-60 in a single shift (second gear).

Claimed performance increase:


Should have actual dyno results this week (12/17/08) from a customer taking his car to performance autowerks.

Warranty:
Your Sky's warranty is kept intact by this tune. The parts themselves are warrantied for as long as is remaining on your drivetrain warranty or 12,000 miles, whichever is LONGER.

Installation
There is currently many reports of dealerships not knowing how to do the flash without calling in, as well as dealerships charging for 4+ hours labor. GM expected install time is <1 hour. A customer has self-installed the sensors with the factory tune and it works for simply driving from point to point, but has not been tested under boost.

Misc:
Tuners are able to work within this new tune through existing software! Tested on an HHR.

Guranteed 50 state emissions legal, and has passed CARB certification.

NEW INFORMATION WILL BE ADDED TO THIS POST

A new version of this post would be amazing.

 

[Robotech]

A new version of the Tune? No need as this is still available.

 

[squilliam]

A new version of the Tune? No need as this is still available.

The post was made back in 2008. Since then new stage kits from different manufacturers have been released... so there is a benefit.

 

[Robotech]

did

The post was made back in 2008. Since then new stage kits from different manufacturers have been released... so there is a benefit.

Not so much. We have always had a very limited aftermarket and the death of the platform and brand in 2009 didn't help. You still only have GMPP and Trifecta offering canned tunes. RPM, PAW, and DDM offer remote tuning. You can also get HPTuners and do it yourself. The GMPP "stage" kit was just a tune with some updated sensors that kept the car's warranty and made it 50 state legal...the only engine upgrade or tune that was...and is...50 state legal.

Not much has changed in 12 years other than all the cars are out of warranty. You will also notice while the thread was started in 2008, the six posts above yours are from 2018 and talk about Trifecta.

But my response was a question seeking clarification as to what you meant by "A new version of this post would be amazing." since the post you quoted only was talking about the GMPP kit. The kit hasn't changed and that description is still spot on today as it was then. It didn't mention the No Lift Shift but that's about it.

Also a word about "stage" kits. These kits are just that, a collection of parts and tunes from a specific company that will do X....and X is only what the manufacturer tells you it is. They are rarely comparable one company to another.

 

[squilliam]

did

Not so much. We have always had a very limited aftermarket and the death of the platform and brand in 2009 didn't help. You still only have GMPP and Trifecta offering canned tunes. RPM, PAW, and DDM offer remote tuning. You can also get HPTuners and do it yourself. The GMPP "stage" kit was just a tune with some updated sensors that kept the car's warranty and made it 50 state legal...the only engine upgrade or tune that was...and is...50 state legal.

Not much has changed in 12 years other than all the cars are out of warranty. You will also notice while the thread was started in 2008, the six posts above yours are from 2018 and talk about Trifecta.

But my response was a question seeking clarification as to what you meant by "A new version of this post would be amazing." since the post you quoted only was talking about the GMPP kit. The kit hasn't changed and that description is still spot on today as it was then. It didn't mention the No Lift Shift but that's about it.

Also a word about "stage" kits. These kits are just that, a collection of parts and tunes from a specific company that will do X....and X is only what the manufacturer tells you it is. They are rarely comparable one company to another.

Well said! I appreciate the insight into the options. That's really what I'm hoping to see, is a post laying out the options. I might just do it myself.

 

[Robotech]

Well said! I appreciate the insight into the options. That's really what I'm hoping to see, is a post laying out the options. I might just do it myself.

I don't know if anyone has ever laid out ALL the options in ONE thread. My post covers all the well known options. RPM, DDM, PAW and Hahn all offer remote tuning but everyone has their opinions on who is better at it. I have worked with all of them and none of them are perfect...well not Hahn when it has come to tuning but I have their intrercooler.... They do their best considering we our platform is a minor, and dying, part of their business. There are other, more local, tuners out there but the vast majority of these are like a shade-tree mechanic you take your car to for repairs. Not that they aren't good, you just don't hear a lot about them and they won't be able to tune your car remotely so if you don't live near them, you will have to drive to them. Also, if you have a Redline they need to have experience tuning a direct injected car. Since the Sky (and Solstice) turbos were the first GM car with a direct injected engine, the experience with it is somewhat common but not as widespread as port injection tuners. This is one reason why I went with the LE5. Being port injected and having some port injection tuning experience made me more comfortable scanning and tweaking my own tune if necessary though I let the experts do the heavy lifting.

 

[Rob the Elder]

In my experience the tune with the least risk is the GMPP tune. I had it on my car before it had the transplant. With the available mods it produced 305 hp at the wheels on the DDM dyno.

I had the RPM tune installed in 2009 by Martin. At the same time, one of my friends had Martin tune his RL. He had issues for months with pinging. I had minor pinging but not as bad as he experienced. I went with the GMPP tune to cure my issues. He went back to factory tune.

DDM was doing tunes for a few years but I heard he has stopped offering them.

Another friend installed a turbo on his 2.4 and had issues with the tune for over a year. He exchanged tuning data with Hahn for over a year and failed to correct the issues. At the nationals he had DDM look at it but that proved to be a dead end after several months. Finally he went to Werks Dave and after a couple of iterations PAW got his tune working well and for the last year its been doing great. Plenty of power, no pinging or other issues.

I have read on the Solsticeforum that getting support from vendors of tunes is getting to be problematic for some people. Emails not answered, etc. I have no direct experience with these tunes but am reporting what others have said about their experience.

The issue with tuning yourself is its relatively easy to cause more harm than good with the highly tuned (and stressed) 2.0. Even a short excursion into lean run at higher throttle settings can result in a severally damaged engine very quickly. One Solforum member is on his third engine because he is learning how to tune his engine and has had a bad outcome at least three times.

If it were me, getting the GMPP tune will give you a safe and significant improvement in performance with very little risk. And its supported by GM. Warrantee and everything. Then you can start from that baseline and begin the process of tweaking the tune to meet your needs.

My experience has been that you can get a very good level of performance with a combination of the GMPP tune, charge tubes and a high flow cat. As I said earlier, I was over 300 WHP and if memory serves close to 400 wheel torque. And it was safe.

But if you want real power, you can throw an LS in there and get 500+ NA or 650 with a SC, or hell 750 with SC and nitrous injection

 

[squilliam]

In my experience the tune with the least risk is the GMPP tune. I had it on my car before it had the transplant. With the available mods it produced 305 hp at the wheels on the DDM dyno.

I had the RPM tune installed in 2009 by Martin. At the same time, one of my friends had Martin tune his RL. He had issues for months with pinging. I had minor pinging but not as bad as he experienced. I went with the GMPP tune to cure my issues. He went back to factory tune.

DDM was doing tunes for a few years but I heard he has stopped offering them.

Another friend installed a turbo on his 2.4 and had issues with the tune for over a year. He exchanged tuning data with Hahn for over a year and failed to correct the issues. At the nationals he had DDM look at it but that proved to be a dead end after several months. Finally he went to Werks Dave and after a couple of iterations PAW got his tune working well and for the last year its been doing great. Plenty of power, no pinging or other issues.

I have read on the Solsticeforum that getting support from vendors of tunes is getting to be problematic for some people. Emails not answered, etc. I have no direct experience with these tunes but am reporting what others have said about their experience.

The issue with tuning yourself is its relatively easy to cause more harm than good with the highly tuned (and stressed) 2.0. Even a short excursion into lean run at higher throttle settings can result in a severally damaged engine very quickly. One Solforum member is on his third engine because he is learning how to tune his engine and has had a bad outcome at least three times.

If it were me, getting the GMPP tune will give you a safe and significant improvement in performance with very little risk. And its supported by GM. Warrantee and everything. Then you can start from that baseline and begin the process of tweaking the tune to meet your needs.

My experience has been that you can get a very good level of performance with a combination of the GMPP tune, charge tubes and a high flow cat. As I said earlier, I was over 300 WHP and if memory serves close to 400 wheel torque. And it was safe.

But if you want real power, you can throw an LS in there and get 500+ NA or 650 with a SC, or hell 750 with SC and nitrous injection

Did you have to do any frame modifications to fit an LS in?