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Greetings sky fans, so in the continuing saga of high heat temps....I changed the thermostat, removed radiator flushed it out well, fixed fins, and removed debris from X/C condenser, and intercooler. I was told by one of the performance folks..." if you put your hand in front of the motor and behind the radiator if you dont feel heat its a circulation issue". Humm. Bad water pump? Broken drive gears or chain and or associated parts? If I increase the rpms while parked the temp went down a bit but then shot up...sounds like water pump ...right? I bled the system a few times ...no or very little stuck air in circulation system. I am not very knowledgeable of these motors...anyone in Florida got a good mechanic?
I am not sure I can do this repair. thanks in advance
joew2109
 

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The water pumps are a common fail point on these. Search the forum, and you will find plenty of documentation. It's a 10ish hour job if you're a beginner mechanic (don't recommend it if you don't have any experience). Will likely cost you over $1,000 to have a mechanic do it.

Here is the parts list I maintain for Kappas (a water pump can be had for $50): Kappa Parts
 

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I would test that thermostat you put it and make sure it seals properly and opens at the right temp, i got a dud ac delco one before.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The water pumps are a common fail point on these. Search the forum, and you will find plenty of documentation. It's a 10ish hour job if you're a beginner mechanic (don't recommend it if you don't have any experience). Will likely cost you over $1,000 to have a mechanic do it.

Here is the parts list I maintain for Kappas (a water pump can be had for $50): Kappa Parts
Thanks for your quick reply...I was searching for a mech too...called one of the performance folks ( I wont name them) and emailed X 2 ...seems they dont want to do the job. Shame on them for not responding to my emails and saying they are not interested. It seem I will be disassembling the engine to check on the gears, chains, and water pump.

Thank you for the parts and prices as well as the parts houses.
joe
 

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Thanks for your quick reply...I was searching for a mech too...called one of the performance folks ( I wont name them) and emailed X 2 ...seems they dont want to do the job. Shame on them for not responding to my emails and saying they are not interested. It seem I will be disassembling the engine to check on the gears, chains, and water pump.

Thank you for the parts and prices as well as the parts houses.
joe
I didn't have to do that to replace mine. Didn't even have to lift the engine or remove the turbo.
It just takes patience and time.
 

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Absolutely the water pump. Can fail without leaking and cause the issues you have. Experienced myself same issues/symptoms and changed WP and was good to go. You can do it yourself with the right tools. Buy the WP tool. .It holds the chain in place so you don't have an issue with the timing. 7 out of 10 (difficulty) in terms of first timers doing it on their own.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I didn't have to do that to replace mine. Didn't even have to lift the engine or remove the turbo.
It just takes patience and time.
I wish there was a fool proof method to ensure its just the pump vs. other issues...
 

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Check this first. When you refill coolant you must use vacuum to fill, or lift the coolant reservoir 14" above it's current height. Just filling the bottle where it is will result in random high temperature readings under all circumstances due to air moving around the system at will. You should consider getting two of these check valves and install them at the radiator and head coolant return lines (to the overflow tank) Amazon.com: ACDelco 20876185 GM Original Equipment Engine Coolant Air Bleeder Valve Assembly: Automotive
I've also successfully used these types of valves in the line behind the Y that joins the radiator and head return lines. Amazon.com: Farmunion Fuel Non Return One Way Check Valve Petrol Diesel Aluminium Alloy: Automotive

Somewhat related, the old trick of turning the HVAC dial to full-hot and blower on high will cause an increase in temperature reading. This is because the (cooled) return line from the heater core dumps right onto the back side of the thermostat and causes it to want to close up.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Absolutely the water pump. Can fail without leaking and cause the issues you have. Experienced myself same issues/symptoms and changed WP and was good to go. You can do it yourself with the right tools. Buy the WP tool. .It holds the chain in place so you don't have an issue with the timing. 7 out of 10 (difficulty) in terms of first timers doing it on their own.
Thanks for your input!
Absolutely the water pump. Can fail without leaking and cause the issues you have. Experienced myself same issues/symptoms and changed WP and was good to go. You can do it yourself with the right tools. Buy the WP tool. .It holds the chain in place so you don't have an issue with the timing. 7 out of 10 (difficulty) in terms of first timers doing it on their own.
Thanks for the response ...much appreciated
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Check this first. When you refill coolant you must use vacuum to fill, or lift the coolant reservoir 14" above it's current height. Just filling the bottle where it is will result in random high temperature readings under all circumstances due to air moving around the system at will. You should consider getting two of these check valves and install them at the radiator and head coolant return lines (to the overflow tank) Amazon.com: ACDelco 20876185 GM Original Equipment Engine Coolant Air Bleeder Valve Assembly: Automotive
I've also successfully used these types of valves in the line behind the Y that joins the radiator and head return lines. Amazon.com: Farmunion Fuel Non Return One Way Check Valve Petrol Diesel Aluminium Alloy: Automotive

Somewhat related, the old trick of turning the HVAC dial to full-hot and blower on high will cause an increase in temperature reading. This is because the (cooled) return line from the heater core dumps right onto the back side of the thermostat and causes it to want to close up.
Greetings ZPM...love your car...babes very nice too...Let me ask you a question...what if I were to by-pass the heater core by putting a heater hose loop from one nozzle to the other leaving the heater core with out any hot water flowing through it? It's not like I need the heat as I live in sunny Florida. I have done this on my old 2001 chevy tahoe(389000 miles) it had a bad heater core and it would take 16 hrs to R & R it. Additionally, I had tried your methodology for refilling the coolant system and I wound up having to pressurize the coolant expansion container to force the anti-freeze to squirt out that top tip in the front of the head. I then used a vacuum pump to suck out the remaining air. I did that X 2. ...not sure what to do now...
Thanks for your response
joe
 

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I haven't seen your previous posts, but assume you've checked the fan control?

Also, just paid $500 to replace the thermostat day before yesterday on mine. Mechanic says he's pretty sure the problem wasn't the thermostat, just thinks it was never bled properly after another company (200 miles from here) replaced the water pump last summer. One thing I forgot was to have the mechanic drill a tiny hole in the thermostat.

Reason I asked about the fan control was that I fought (2 replacement fan controls) that last summer and thought everything was ok until had an overheat issue a couple weeks ago with a "checked out as running" fan.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I haven't seen your previous posts, but assume you've checked the fan control?

Also, just paid $500 to replace the thermostat day before yesterday on mine. Mechanic says he's pretty sure the problem wasn't the thermostat, just thinks it was never bled properly after another company (200 miles from here) replaced the water pump last summer. One thing I forgot was to have the mechanic drill a tiny hole in the thermostat.

Reason I asked about the fan control was that I fought (2 replacement fan controls) that last summer and thought everything was ok until had an overheat issue a couple weeks ago with a "checked out as running" fan.
Thanks Max or your response....the fan comes on when it is suppose to...still too hot
 

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I'm attaching the service bulletin pertaining to the two valves. It'll show you how to install them. They're intended to, over time, bleed whatever air is left in the system. My ex had a 2007 base model that had this problem for years before we started dating. Her various mechanics changed the thermostat more than once, changed the radiator, performed many flushes, and the final suggestion before we met was "you just need a new engine." I did some researched based mostly on what I read here and had it fixed within a week. She kept watching the temperature for another year. That old habit was hard to break, and a major stressor.

Your pressure fill won't work. The problem is that there are areas where air is trapped above the waterline (the height of the overflow bottle) with no way out. Adding pressure just tries to compress that air in those locations. The air may compress a little but once your pressure is removed it just expands back. Vacuum removes all of it. Then you put coolant into the opening and allow atmospheric pressure to push it into those areas, since there's nothing there to oppose it now.

I bought vacuum tool off of Amazon that works with an air compressor (venturi effect). After installing the two valves, prepare your coolant mixture in a big jug. The tool comes with a valved nipple for a hose that you put into the bottles. After achieving vacuum, you close one valve and open the valve with the tube and the fluid is blown into the system through the tool. With a little practice you can vacuum well enough to put in the full compliment of coolant (the specified system volume), but it's not critical. Even getting most in will generally block trouble areas with coolant and, being vacuum pockets rather than air, they'll eventually fill. Be sure you use the water pump drain plug to drain the block in addition to the radiator drain. Otherwise, you may have air trapped behind residual coolant that the vacuum won't remove.

Regarding bypassing the heater core, I'm attaching a line drawing of the thermostat housing showing the two lines. They're so close together I would think you could just cap each one off. No need to loop a hose between them. The return nipple is the one that's directly behind the thermostat. So, you can see why using cabin heat ends up putting cooler coolant onto the thermostat back, causing it to close up (and engine temp to rise).

ha ha... thanks for complimenting my girlfriend. She's a lot of fun and into costuming. She owned a Solstice years ago and now wants my Sky.

BTW, my preference is to run 100% distilled water with a bottle of Redline Watter Wetter for the additive package. I get lightening fast warmups which gives me quick oil warmups via the oil cooler, and that all results in reduced wear and improved drivability. Also, it tends to tie the oil temp more directly to the coolant temp, aka, oil runs at an ideal 210F rather than 230+. No freeze protection so it stayed in my garage during the great Texas freeze. Our other cars, I run 25% coolant, which just barely covered the recent freeze. They're all garaged but always the possibility of getting trapped outside on a trip.

Greetings ZPM...love your car...babes very nice too...Let me ask you a question...what if I were to by-pass the heater core by putting a heater hose loop from one nozzle to the other leaving the heater core with out any hot water flowing through it? It's not like I need the heat as I live in sunny Florida. I have done this on my old 2001 chevy tahoe(389000 miles) it had a bad heater core and it would take 16 hrs to R & R it. Additionally, I had tried your methodology for refilling the coolant system and I wound up having to pressurize the coolant expansion container to force the anti-freeze to squirt out that top tip in the front of the head. I then used a vacuum pump to suck out the remaining air. I did that X 2. ...not sure what to do now...
Thanks for your response
joe
 

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This spring I will be replacing the coolant in my 2007 Base 2.4L with manual transmission. The cooling system does not have temperature issues. I don't yet know if I have a drain valve in the radiator, but if I do I am thinking doing this to prevent air from entering the cooling system. I would appreciate everyone's input.

1) do with engine cold
2) have 2 gallons of 50/50 mixture of coolant on hand
3) open the radiator drain
4) add coolant into the overflow bottle to keep it full
5) when one gallon has run through, close the drain valve
6) drive the car to operating temperature
7) let the vehicle cool down overnight and repeat the process

I realize that some of the original coolant will remain in the system but am thinking that when I am done, it might be around 25% old and 75% new. It would be similar to doing 2x on an automatic transmission.

Looking on Rock Auto, the AC Delco radiator sold has a drain plug but it also has upper and lower connections for the automatic transmission oil cooler. I have a manual transmission and therefore assumed not to have the oil cooler, but have a drain plug.

Your thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I'm attaching the service bulletin pertaining to the two valves. It'll show you how to install them. They're intended to, over time, bleed whatever air is left in the system. My ex had a 2007 base model that had this problem for years before we started dating. Her various mechanics changed the thermostat more than once, changed the radiator, performed many flushes, and the final suggestion before we met was "you just need a new engine." I did some researched based mostly on what I read here and had it fixed within a week. She kept watching the temperature for another year. That old habit was hard to break, and a major stressor.

Your pressure fill won't work. The problem is that there are areas where air is trapped above the waterline (the height of the overflow bottle) with no way out. Adding pressure just tries to compress that air in those locations. The air may compress a little but once your pressure is removed it just expands back. Vacuum removes all of it. Then you put coolant into the opening and allow atmospheric pressure to push it into those areas, since there's nothing there to oppose it now.

I bought vacuum tool off of Amazon that works with an air compressor (venturi effect). After installing the two valves, prepare your coolant mixture in a big jug. The tool comes with a valved nipple for a hose that you put into the bottles. After achieving vacuum, you close one valve and open the valve with the tube and the fluid is blown into the system through the tool. With a little practice you can vacuum well enough to put in the full compliment of coolant (the specified system volume), but it's not critical. Even getting most in will generally block trouble areas with coolant and, being vacuum pockets rather than air, they'll eventually fill. Be sure you use the water pump drain plug to drain the block in addition to the radiator drain. Otherwise, you may have air trapped behind residual coolant that the vacuum won't remove.

Regarding bypassing the heater core, I'm attaching a line drawing of the thermostat housing showing the two lines. They're so close together I would think you could just cap each one off. No need to loop a hose between them. The return nipple is the one that's directly behind the thermostat. So, you can see why using cabin heat ends up putting cooler coolant onto the thermostat back, causing it to close up (and engine temp to rise).

ha ha... thanks for complimenting my girlfriend. She's a lot of fun and into costuming. She owned a Solstice years ago and now wants my Sky.

BTW, my preference is to run 100% distilled water with a bottle of Redline Watter Wetter for the additive package. I get lightening fast warmups which gives me quick oil warmups via the oil cooler, and that all results in reduced wear and improved drivability. Also, it tends to tie the oil temp more directly to the coolant temp, aka, oil runs at an ideal 210F rather than 230+. No freeze protection so it stayed in my garage during the great Texas freeze. Our other cars, I run 25% coolant, which just barely covered the recent freeze. They're all garaged but always the possibility of getting trapped outside on a trip.
Thank you Max... i will take this under advisement ...I shall return...
 

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Dilution process will work. Just takes longer.

I have a digital refractometer to measure coolant concentration. If you got one, you could check yours after each dilution run. When it gets to 1%, assume you've changed out all of the old coolant. Then you can keep performing the process, but adding in coolant instead of water. You're done once you get to your desired concentration.

You'll use a lot of distilled water but it's easy to get.

About your radiator, I've just pulled off the bottom hose to drain mine. Those drain valves are plastic now and I've used them to the point where they won't seal and have had to figure out ways to replace them. The lower hose is safer and a lot faster.

This spring I will be replacing the coolant in my 2007 Base 2.4L with manual transmission. The cooling system does not have temperature issues. I don't yet know if I have a drain valve in the radiator, but if I do I am thinking doing this to prevent air from entering the cooling system. I would appreciate everyone's input.

1) do with engine cold
2) have 2 gallons of 50/50 mixture of coolant on hand
3) open the radiator drain
4) add coolant into the overflow bottle to keep it full
5) when one gallon has run through, close the drain valve
6) drive the car to operating temperature
7) let the vehicle cool down overnight and repeat the process

I realize that some of the original coolant will remain in the system but am thinking that when I am done, it might be around 25% old and 75% new. It would be similar to doing 2x on an automatic transmission.

Looking on Rock Auto, the AC Delco radiator sold has a drain plug but it also has upper and lower connections for the automatic transmission oil cooler. I have a manual transmission and therefore assumed not to have the oil cooler, but have a drain plug.

Your thoughts?
 
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