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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
insurance is just sooooo complicated. i call about how much mine would be on a sky later today, but i talked to a good friend of my best friend last night. she worked for an auto insurance company in virginia and had to take a class and a test to be licensed to sell auto insurance in virginia.

i still can't believe what she told me, so i had her repeat is several times and she swears it is true. has anyone else ever heard this?

like i said, it is complicated and you have to understand some insurance words no one ever uses. the first one is "subrogate".

subrogate: to put in the place of another; especially : to substitute (as a second creditor) for another with regard to a legal right or claim

here is an example. you are in an accident that is not your fault. you go to the emergency room and your bill is $1,000.00. your health insurance company pays it. you send a copy of the bill to the insurance company of the driver at fault, company "a", and when you settle with them for the accident they pay you for the cost of the er visit. then your health insurance company, which has already paid the bill, subrogates. they expect to be reimbursed by you, you have to pay them what they paid for the er visit since company a paid you. i know that is complicated. does it make sense? in effect, company "a" pays your health insurance company for your er visit, you do not profit from going.

now it gets weird. a lot of health insurance companys do not subrogate. they pay for your er visit, and anything you collect besides that for medical, you keep. now that doesn't make sense. with that system, you make $1,000.00 for going to the er. she even said that anthem, the largest health insurance company in virginia, does not subrogate. so, if you still have problems after going to the er and go to your doctor, your health insurance company pays for your doctor visit and you collect an equal amount from company "a" which you get to keep. and if your doctor sends you to a specialist, your health insurance comapany pays the specialist and you collect the same amount from company "a" which you get to keep. the more medical attention you get, the higher your bills, the more you make. where is the incentive to recover from the accident?

now it gets unbelievable! can this be true? she swears it is. in virginia, when you buy auto insurance, you are required to get a set amount of medical, i think she said $5000.00/car. when you get in an accident that is not your fault and you go to the er and have a $1000.00 bill, your health insurance company pays it, you get a copy to send to company b and they pay it, AND you get a copy of the er bill to send to YOUR car insurance company and they are required to pay it up to $5,000.00, if your health insurance company does not subrogate, you collect from company "a" and from your own insurance company and they can not raise your rates when you collect for medical. and, the $5000.00 is "stackable". that means if you have two cars on the same policy, your medical bills are covered up to $10,000.

so you could make $2,000.00 for a $1000.00 trip to the er which is paid for by your health insurance company, if they do not subrogate. if your health insurance company does subrogate, you still make $1,000.00.

math is not my thing and all this sounds crooked to me, but she is thirty-years-old and still licensed to sell auto insurance in virginia. is she right???
 

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I think I follow? still too early for me though ;) by 'making a profit' as yo usaid it, it sounds like you're making a double claim, insurance fraud of types, although it sounds more like a loophole than something 'typical'/'legal'. at least that's what it sounds like to me.
 

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skyepilot said:
insurance is just sooooo complicated. i call about how much mine would be on a sky later today, but i talked to a good friend of my best friend last night. she worked for an auto insurance company in virginia and had to take a class and a test to be licensed to sell auto insurance in virginia.

i still can't believe what she told me, so i had her repeat is several times and she swears it is true. has anyone else ever heard this?

like i said, it is complicated and you have to understand some insurance words no one ever uses. the first one is "subrogate".

subrogate: to put in the place of another; especially : to substitute (as a second creditor) for another with regard to a legal right or claim

here is an example. you are in an accident that is not your fault. you go to the emergency room and your bill is $1,000.00. your health insurance company pays it. you send a copy of the bill to the insurance company of the driver at fault, company "a", and when you settle with them for the accident they pay you for the cost of the er visit. then your health insurance company, which has already paid the bill, subrogates. they expect to be reimbursed by you, you have to pay them what they paid for the er visit since company a paid you. i know that is complicated. does it make sense? in effect, company "a" pays your health insurance company for your er visit, you do not profit from going.

now it gets weird. a lot of health insurance companys do not subrogate. they pay for your er visit, and anything you collect besides that for medical, you keep. now that doesn't make sense. with that system, you make $1,000.00 for going to the er. she even said that anthem, the largest health insurance company in virginia, does not subrogate. so, if you still have problems after going to the er and go to your doctor, your health insurance company pays for your doctor visit and you collect an equal amount from company "a" which you get to keep. and if your doctor sends you to a specialist, your health insurance comapany pays the specialist and you collect the same amount from company "a" which you get to keep. the more medical attention you get, the higher your bills, the more you make. where is the incentive to recover from the accident?

now it gets unbelievable! can this be true? she swears it is. in virginia, when you buy auto insurance, you are required to get a set amount of medical, i think she said $5000.00/car. when you get in an accident that is not your fault and you go to the er and have a $1000.00 bill, your health insurance company pays it, you get a copy to send to company b and they pay it, AND you get a copy of the er bill to send to YOUR car insurance company and they are required to pay it up to $5,000.00, if your health insurance company does not subrogate, you collect from company "a" and from your own insurance company and they can not raise your rates when you collect for medical. and, the $5000.00 is "stackable". that means if you have two cars on the same policy, your medical bills are covered up to $10,000.

so you could make $2,000.00 for a $1000.00 trip to the er which is paid for by your health insurance company, if they do not subrogate. if your health insurance company does subrogate, you still make $1,000.00.

math is not my thing and all this sounds crooked to me, but she is thirty-years-old and still licensed to sell auto insurance in virginia. is she right???
I certainly don't know if she's right, but if what you've posted is what she told you, she's intelligent, and a person could learn much from her.
 

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I don't know about VA, but if you tried to collect from two insurance companies for the same loss (er visit) in CT, that would be insurance fraud.

Go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
 

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Makes perfect sense.

Insurance is not meant to make money for policy holders. It is to REIMBURSE you for losses.

Subrogation works in your favor, too.

If you have an accident that you were not at fault in and you have a $500 deductible, you pay that $500 yourself and your insurance company makes its best efforts to subrogate that loss and get you your $500 back from the responsible party.

I would advise against trying to double bill your hospital visit. The insurance companies WILL come after you when they find out.
 

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Yes, a deductable is a loss and I would think it would be recoverable from the "at faults" policy. In her example there is no talk about deductible. Her medical insurance is picking up the tab, then she puts in another claim against the auto policy for the same bill. That sound like insurance fraud to me.

Insurance laws vary from state to state. Go check with an current and practicing agent first. You said your friend "worked" for an auto insurer. Well maybe she has this all screwed up and that is why she no longer works there.

Skyepilot, there is NO FREE LUNCH.
 

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Virginia insurance holder here...

I think in theory your scenarios make sense - the problem is getting money from the "other guys" insurance isn't always so easy.

Often times the insurance companies will call each other and determine what is owed. If you collected extra I think there was a mistake on someone's part. I do believe this happens sometimes though.

I was hit by a drunk driver who had corporate insurance and they were handing over money in wheel barrows terrified I would sue or demand more money. The 1994SC2 was technically totalled but I demanded they fixed it (took 3 months and I had a rental Silverardo paid for in the meantime and even got inconvenience fees). That is one side of the spectrum of "making something from an accident" -- what you describe sounds more like fraud though. Not sure. Either way, accidents are so inconvenient that any amount of money would never make the thought of getting in one appealing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
i called my mom's insurance agent about getting insurance on a sky for me. i asked her about collecting medical from one's health insurance, the insurance of the party at fault, and your own insurance. she said you can't do that, it would be double dipping. :nono: her tone made me feel bad and stupid for asking.

i am going to call my friend's friend who used to be an agent and see what i misunderstood so i can get this straight. she is a licensed agent and used to sell auto insurance. then she became a paralegal and she is now in law school, so she must know what she is talking about. i must have just misuderstood, but i asked her several times because it did not sound right.

i thought there must be some virginia drivers on this forum who would know the answer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
right now i can not even afford the car.:confused: either i have to get someone to pay for it and the insurance, or quit school to get a second job, or wait until i finish school and get a good job.

my mom might help if i talk to her right, my dad might help if he thinks it makes mom look bad, my grandmother will help if i ask, but she is on fixed income.

i need to convince mom that a sky is a reliable vehicle which holds its value and that i need one............:D
 

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Pilot -

As someone who is under 25 (and the more expensive sex) I may be able to offer some idea of where your rates are headed...

I had paid 741/year for my old Saturn. Upon switching to the Sky the rate went up 570 dollars/year (1311 total). In May of this year when I move to the "less risky" 25 years old bracket the price is expected to drop about 25% leaving my rate somewhere around 940/year. I have no accidents of my own fault and my last moving voilation was over 5 years ago.

I HIGHLY recommend seeing what kind of discounts you can stockpile on your plan or shop around to an agency that offers discounts (many times colleges and universities have a policy provider that offers group discounts that can be quite good to students and alumni). You will also want to make sure you include such features as On-Star as securitiy devices which can shave off some of the costs.

If you do finance your Sky and put little to no money down and plan to pay for your own insurance -- you will probably need to make sure you plan to set aside ~ 8,000 a year.
 

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skyepilot said:
right now i can not even afford the car.:confused: either i have to get someone to pay for it and the insurance, or quit school to get a second job, or wait until i finish school and get a good job.

my mom might help if i talk to her right, my dad might help if he thinks it makes mom look bad, my grandmother will help if i ask, but she is on fixed income.

i need to convince mom that a sky is a reliable vehicle which holds its value and that i need one............:D
This is what you do! DO NOT QUIT SCHOOL first of all VERY bad move! I presume you have a job now that just gets you by. Try and find a job that pays a little more than what you make now and then when school breaks for summer (in 2 more months) then get a second job as well during the entire summer. Ask your mom and dad (who are divorced I believe you say) to help pay for your SKY (finance 6 years-lower payments but tad more interest) while you pay the FULL insurance yourself. Don't beat up on your G-ma for $$$ :nono: unless it is for a quick $20 here and there to go out with your friends this summer :D Tell your parents that when you get out of school in the next couple of years you will then take full ownership of the payments to the car! There is nothing wrong with parents helping out kids ont heir first responsibility (but damn mine wasn't anything as good as a SKY I assure you)! You do need to take some responsibility and ownership of part to half of the total cost per month and that will include working your butt off to have what is nice. This is a great reason to make you snap into seeing what real life is about! I would go back to highschool-college years any day after finding out what real life is about the last 9 years. It is some rough waters out there but hell we all have worked our butts off for a good cause and if you see this car as something you REALLY want you will do what it takes to get it! Good luck, this was just an example of what you may ask them but maybe someone can come up with something better! :cheers:
 

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You may be confused by the term Personal Injury Protection. Many states require that you buy this coverage with your automobile insurance, but it is not what it sounds like.

Personal Injury Protection (PIP) does not pay your hospital bills. It covers stuff that is normally not covered by other insurance such as loss of income, child care and other incidental losses.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
i talked to the girl again who used to sell insurance in virginia, then became a paralegal, now in lawschool. i told her what my agent said about double dipping. she said that agents tell you that so you won't collect what you have paid for and the state requires you to have. there is no law against double dipping, it is just a name that sounds bad so you figure you shouldn't do it. if you hire an attorney, the first thing he is going to do is send all of your medical bills to YOUR insurance company and they will be paid pronto, without question. you have to wait for settlement to get paid by the insurance company of the person at fault. whether or not your health insurance company subrogates is a factor in whether you collect the cost of your medical bills or double the cost of your medical bills.

this still does not sound right, but she sure acts like she knows what she is talking about.

is there anyone on this forum from virginia who knows what their rights are as far as auto insurance, and can tell me if my friend's friend is right?
 

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skyepilot said:
is there anyone on this forum from virginia who knows what their rights are as far as auto insurance, and can tell me if my friend's friend is right?
Well, I am also in law school and though I havent focused too much on the commonwealth's laws I feel like your missing an element to this scheme your friend has described.

Perhaps a personal injury suit can allow you to collect twice, but just filing two times? Basically if both insurance companies have the accident reported there has to be an account for where the money goes. Maybe it is legal, but it would go against what I have learned in Torts class about damages and what you can and can't seek from insurance companies.

(...Though I have also learned there's always loop hole.)
 

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skyepilot said:
this still does not sound right, but she sure acts like she knows what she is talking about.

is there anyone on this forum from virginia who knows what their rights are as far as auto insurance, and can tell me if my friend's friend is right?
SkyePilot: Why in the world are you wasting YOUR time with this SCHEME. What does this have to do with you getting your car?

Did you ever figuire out what the insurance is going to cost you yet? What about the payments? What about the down payment? What about the property insurance? What about the fuel? What about the oil changes? What about the reserve you are going to set aside to replace the tires. What is your income, do you make enough to cover all of that?

I'm am not trying to be mean, and in other posts I have offered help. But you are truely a scatter brain. Your mom was correct about your thought process. Get a plan together here, and start to execute the plan.

That is it, I've had enough for a while.:willy: For two weeks, it's off to the ignore list with you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
dmbdlatc said:
SkyePilot: Why in the world are you wasting YOUR time with this SCHEME. What does this have to do with you getting your car?

Did you ever figuire out what the insurance is going to cost you yet? What about the payments? What about the down payment? What about the property insurance? What about the fuel? What about the oil changes? What about the reserve you are going to set aside to replace the tires. What is your income, do you make enough to cover all of that?

I'm am not trying to be mean, and in other posts I have offered help. But you are truely a scatter brain. Your mom was correct about your thought process. Get a plan together here, and start to execute the plan.

That is it, I've had enough for a while.:willy: For two weeks, it's off to the ignore list with you.
you have helped a lot,:) and i have followed a lot of your advice. in checking out the insurance thingy, i talked to a lot of people, and i found something i did not believe because it did not sound right. so i started this thread on virginia insurance because i thought someone on this forum could enlighten me. this thread is about insurance and how often one can collect on the same medical bill legally, not how i plan to afford a sky. i have another thread entitled "payments" where i am still trying to come up with a plan to get a sky.

if you don't understand insurance, that's fine!:) i just figured you would since you seem to know about everything else.

if you don't want to help me anymore, that's fine!:) i do appreciate all you have done.

if you want to put me on ignore, that's fine!:) that way i won't bother you.


do you think i should get the yellow, or the blue?
 

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I feel like you "know" if your a yellow type of car owner. Its like the person who likes the orange and grape Ice Pops.

Also -- which blue are you referring to? I like the Midnight Blue a lot, but I had it on my old car. It really is unique. Though the Sky really does look good in every color I have seen it in.

Either way, if your really counting your pennies there, Pilot, the yellow is a couple hundred more.
 
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