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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Limp Mode Lite, Half Boost, and P2188. (Freeze frame data in page two!)

(Discussion and help needed!)
Oh yeah! This is gunna be a fun thread! And hopefuly helpful for anyone else that may come up against this ruthless code, that seems to plague A LOT of cars.
And probably really long too, I'll throw in some cliff notes in at the end to spare some of you from having to read it all.

So my 07 Sky RL has been suffering from P2188(to rich at idle) off and on for months. I believe I had a misfire code at one point, but I believe I solved that with new spark plugs.

My Sky has the GMPP tune, magnaflow exhaust, fujita intake and ic pipes. I believe the code started after the ic pipe install, back during march, but not right away, maybe acouple months later? At this point I was DDing my Sky. So I never assumed it was the IC pipes. But I'll come back to this.

So I pop p2188, and I get half boost, well less, 9psi. After a lot of searching I realized that this is because I'm being thrown into LIMP MODE LITE, which allows only mechanical boost, normally thats 6psi or so? The previous owner is responsible for most of the mods on the car so I'm assuming he may have done the WASTEGATE MOD, for extra Boost, hence why I get 9psi in Limp Mode Lite. And I know this is Limp Mode and not a leak is because if I clear the code, I have FULL BOOST again until the next time I start up the car or soon before the code returns.
Right?

Now this code comes and goes, some days I'll start up the car and have full boost and its gone the next time I start it or let it sit and idle after driving it. But this is rare, it'll be like once every 3 weeks or so. Sometimes the code even clears itself but comes back very quickly.
The interesting thing with this is, everyone else I've read about having p2188 says nothing about half boost or limp mode, how is it just happening for me?

So doing my research, this code is really common with Mazda speeds and Mini S' and extremely hard to pinpoint and fix just like with these cars...
the things I've done so far:
New spark plugs (Double platinum autolite(I think thats the brand) Mind you the code came and went on the Delcos that were in it before.
Checked the purge valve, working just fine.
3bar sensor wiring, took out the crimp connectors, I should have soldered it but I twisted them up and heat shrink tubed them.
Cleaned the Maf and Map sensor, I think I sprayed the Maf connector too.
Seafoamed the car, and gas treatment.

Interestingly enough, I was on the toilet and the closest thing in reach to read was the Maf Cleaner can, it was tested at R/T Tuning, in Lansdale, PA. doesn't mean much to some of you guys, but that place is just around the corner from me, and very reputable! When I first got my car they contacted me and told me they just did a turbo swap and dyno tune on a Sky RL, so if I can't figure this out its most likely going to end up at their place! Go figure lol.

Now, the last thing I want to try, going back to the IC pipe discussion, is putting the stock ones back on. Seeing how the last thing I did before this started was put the intercooler pipes on, but as I also said it happened months later.
I did replace the clamps with T-bolts and the couplers with silicone ones.

My last guess is it could be a leaky injector?
And worst case my turbo is shot... I have thought that maybe I have a slight crack in the intercooler that could be throwing off the readings and freaking the car out. It's definitely not ballooned up, but could be cracked since I haven't checked the end tanks yet.

Possibly needs a retune?

So, any suggestions?
I'm so baffled by this...
Now that my wagon is back on the road I need to tackle this code!

*cliff notes!*
Car has p2188
Causing LIMP MODE LITE, cause half boost at 9psi.
Replaced and cleaner various parts, nothing has worked.
Code comes and goes, Do not think its a leak.
Retune?
Heartbroken
Need help


Thanks guys!
Hans -
Discuss!
 

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How many miles do you have on the car?

I would check the IC pipes carefully. Aftermarket pipes don't have as much clearance as the stock ones and if a pipe has been rubbing it could possibly have a hole which could be the cause of your problems. Just a thought.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
52,xxx I believe. Pipes would have been put on around 45,xxx I think?

And thats a great idea, thankyou! Specially because the Fujita pipes don't have support brackets.
 

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I'm betting it's the Fujita intake. I've read a lot of people have had issues with them... they mess up the air flow around the MAF and that causes a number of problems. Do you have the OEM intake still? I would try swapping out that Fujita for OEM - see if that fixes it.

Here's just a few 'problem' threads referencing the Fujita (no personal experience):

Fujita intake, flawed design? - Pontiac Solstice Forum
Fujita Cold Air Intake and MAF DTC - Pontiac Solstice Forum
Comparison of Fujita CAI versus Dejon CAI - Pontiac Solstice Forum
(another) fujita cai question. - Pontiac Solstice Forum
http://www.skyroadster.com/forums/f5/fujita-cold-air-intakes-may-defective-25693/
http://www.skyroadster.com/forums/f25/fujita-cai-issues-24834/
http://www.skyroadster.com/forums/f24/cold-air-intake-25597/#post337239
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'm betting it's the Fujita intake. I've read a lot of people have had issues with them... they mess up the air flow around the MAF and that causes a number of problems. Do you have the OEM intake still? I would try swapping out that Fujita for OEM - see if that fixes it.

Here's just a few 'problem' threads referencing the Fujita (no personal experience):

Fujita intake, flawed design? - Pontiac Solstice Forum
Fujita Cold Air Intake and MAF DTC - Pontiac Solstice Forum
Comparison of Fujita CAI versus Dejon CAI - Pontiac Solstice Forum
(another) fujita cai question. - Pontiac Solstice Forum
http://www.skyroadster.com/forums/f5/fujita-cold-air-intakes-may-defective-25693/
http://www.skyroadster.com/forums/f25/fujita-cai-issues-24834/
http://www.skyroadster.com/forums/f24/cold-air-intake-25597/#post337239

Hmm... I'll have to do some reading.
The Fujita intake was installed by the previous owner so I do not have the stock one, I'll probably post a wanted ad for it, hopefuly I can get someone to donate to the cause haha.
The only thing is when I got the car it had 36,000 miles, and like I said it didn't start till 45,xxx miles, would it really go bad that much later? Could it be that I've NEVER cleaned the intake filter? :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Then clean/replace the filter, and certainly clean the MAF.
I'll def give it a clean, I really hope its not the intake... I love the sound of the blow off :D
Cleaned the MAF already.
The only sensor I haven't tried cleaning yet was the one on the manifold. I might as well do that while I'm at it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Well my S-series wagon broke down today, so thats gunna put fixing the sky further back...

On a side note could this be something that could be tuned into correction/away?
Not necessarily have the code deleted/turned off, but tuned for fuel correction since the code is for to rich at idle?
Maybe its a leaky injector? Thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Wagon is back up n running... ran out of gas x)
Intercooler pipes thursday if its not to cold.
Any other ideas out there? This code really is wack, when the car sits for a week n starts up code is still there but I get full boost! Drive it back home and it's like it remembers its got a code and disables full boost, its weird, constantly in and out of Limp Mode Lite I guess.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Wagon's exhaust snapped in half the last day we had snow... seriously this car wont stop falling apart lol.

On a side note, I got the code cleared at a shop, they said it could just be an oxygen sensor, but I wont put much faith in them since they have never even seen a kappa before lol.
But since the code clearing I've driven the car about a week and it hasnt come back, and going into partial boost I'm making it to 10psi or more... I'm gunna try WOT to see if it comes back...
 

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Hello this is Shadowrain77 ,
I have 08 sky redline turbo graphite gray anyways ,,also my sky sets code 2188 has been for about 3weaks but was thinking it was because I put too much fuel injector cleaner in tank , •••• I do all my mechanical wk don't have any mods yet ,, and yes she goes into limp mechanical mode !!! Thanks Hans for pointing that out and don't worry ur not the only one that this is happening to,,,, I've replace all the sensors anthe next thing I'll switch is the plugs again ,,maybe the f i cleaner messed em up !!!! Also I'm replacing the PCM ( ECU ) all my pipes ( seem to have no leaks ) intercooler seems to have no leaks also ,,,pressurized I C FYI ,,,
 

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shadowrain77 would like some tech support from an Einstein ( seriously)
•••••anywho •••••
Hears the rydilio ! I have 2008 sky redline , so she codes po2188 meaning " system too rich at idle speed " ( bank 1 ) sooooooo!!!
Code seems too cause turbo to go into limp mode and only slows approx. half boost !!!!
••• can someone tell me the specific prob. Without u dumbasses guessing ?
 

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I had the same exact problem for over a year, including the limp mode. I tried everything first and was ready to replace fuel injectors but thought I would try Injector cleaner first. I had tried SeaFoam so I tried Lucas fuel injector cleaner and lubricant. After two tanks of fuel, the code did not come back on. I'm now on the fourth tank and the code has not reappeared. Actually I can't believe all the hassle I went through, but so far the Lucas seems to have worked.
 

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Bump,

Am I correct about my guess with the wastegate mod? And how can I adjust it back properly?
Loosen counter set locking nut and spin out of the way to the right.

Back off the left nut until no pressure is felt on the rod from the diaphragm.

Now spin the left nut back to the right until you just feel the spring pressure from the diaphragm and stop.

Now turn the left nut 2 more complete revolutions.

(Westers Garage say 3 turns)

Lastly, spin counter set locking nut on the right, back towards the adjustment and set tight.

Be sure to use extrem heat restistant lock tight on both nuts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
I had the same exact problem for over a year, including the limp mode. I tried everything first and was ready to replace fuel injectors but thought I would try Injector cleaner first. I had tried SeaFoam so I tried Lucas fuel injector cleaner and lubricant. After two tanks of fuel, the code did not come back on. I'm now on the fourth tank and the code has not reappeared. Actually I can't believe all the hassle I went through, but so far the Lucas seems to have worked.
Wow its crazy to see this thread bumped and whats worse, I STILL have the code haha...
I just havent had the time to work on it like I use to. And I'm in the exact same boat, I've literally replaced everything except the fuel injectors and first o2 sensor(which I have a brand new one on the kitchen table as we speak haha).
Funny you mention Seafoam as I use that regularly in all the cars I've had, its cured so many issues in all of them. I never thought of using anything else as I've been on the "Seafoam is the best" bandwagon since day one hah.
At this point I'm almost out of love for the car... if the o2 sensor doesn't fix it or the Lucas product, I'm going to just take it to a speed shop and pay whatever it takes to get it fix and sell it to the first person who offers me what I have left owed on it.
And pick up a Lotus Evora S 2+2 in a year or two :D

The Lucas stuff is really good. Guy lives out here by me somewhere and I use a lot of their products. Keep us posted and let us know if the code stays gone.

I like all the recommendations, I really will pick up a bottle of it next time I'm out.

shadowrain77 would like some tech support from an Einstein ( seriously)
•••••anywho •••••
Hears the rydilio ! I have 2008 sky redline , so she codes po2188 meaning " system too rich at idle speed " ( bank 1 ) sooooooo!!!
Code seems too cause turbo to go into limp mode and only slows approx. half boost !!!!
••• can someone tell me the specific prob. Without u dumbasses guessing ?
Referring to these guys as "dumbasses" isn't going to get you ANY help.
These are good guys and should be treated as such. I still have p2188 all these years later. Most likely, even though it shouldn't be the case as they don't fail often is its a faulty/leaky fuel injector.
But now is the time to invest in a scan tool. I've just done this myself by getting the full version of the Torque App for android. I've run an o2 emissions check with it and have found multiple failures many times for o2 bank 1 sensor 1. and fuel trim bank 1.
With this being said its a good chance the o2 failure is causing the fuel trim failure.
Plus its always good to start cheap!

I think at this point I'm almost down to the root of the problem. Over the two years I've had many other codes and issues that I've fixed one by one.
I use to get random misfire codes and a rough cold start, and I would occasionally see a pending code for a intermittent coolant temp sensor.
All this was fixed with the newer plugs, as the stock 07 plugs were a step colder along with a new coolant temp sensor. I had sluggish response at one time and replaced the MAF, worked great. And so on...
Now I'm down to just p2188...

The only good thing thats come from this code is I've learned alot about the fuel system and how A/F ratios are determined and what every sensor does.
Though I rather not have any of that knowledge and my car working perfectly normal for the last 2 years haha :rolleyes:

Loosen counter set locking nut and spin out of the way to the right.

Back off the left nut until no pressure is felt on the rod from the diaphragm.

Now spin the left nut back to the right until you just feel the spring pressure from the diaphragm and stop.

Now turn the left nut 2 more complete revolutions.

(Westers Garage say 3 turns)

Lastly, spin counter set locking nut on the right, back towards the adjustment and set tight.

Be sure to use extrem heat restistant lock tight on both nuts.
Hey thanks for the write up, I'll take a look at this too when I do the o2 sensor and Lucas fuel injector cleaner.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Well since I have the scan tool I figured I should post the freeze frame data from the p2188 code.
Maybe some of you guys can give me inside, and maybe help others!

p2188.
Freeze frame information:
------------------
Fuel Status = 0 byte
Engine Load = 15.294 %
Engine Coolant Temperature = 92 °C
Fuel Trim Bank 1 Short Term = 1.562 %
Fuel Trim Bank 1 Long Term = 6.25 %
Intake Manifold Pressure = 4.641 psi
Engine RPM = 792.75 rpm
Speed (OBD) = 0 km/h
Timing Advance = 9.5 °
Intake Air Temperature = 19 °C
Mass Air Flow Rate = 2.94 g/s
Throttle Position(Manifold) = 18.431 %
Run time since engine start = 1,264 s
Fuel Rail Pressure = 320.533 psi
Fuel Level (From Engine ECU) = 35.294 %
Barometric pressure (from vehicle) = 14.649 psi
Voltage (Control Module) = 14.442 V
Engine Load(Absolute) = 18.039 %
Commanded Equivalence Ratio(lambda) = 1
Relative Throttle Position = 3.922 %
Ambient air temp = 7 °C
Absolute Throttle Position B = 19.216 %
Accelerator PedalPosition D = 18.824 %
Accelerator PedalPosition E = 18.824 %
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
So, Idling the Short Term Fuel Trim will go down to -30% and stay there... and the Long Term slowly follows the longer I let it idle.

I didn't realize the fuel trim were that bad, I really think I have a bad fuel injector!
What should my fuel rail pressure be at when I turn the key on?
 

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So the snapshot of the scan you took you were lightly accelerating, right? 18% TPS (Throttle Position) isn't at idle...or rather shouldn't be.

If your STFT (Short Term Fuel Trim) is -30% chances are you've maxed out it's range and that's what is causing the code. How long does the STFT take to go to -30%? Is it almost instantaneous or does it take a while. LTFT (Long Term Fuel Trim) is calculated off STFTs so it makes sense that it would follow the STFTs. That being said, LTFT are only used on Open Loop operation.

Looking at the snapshot your LTFTs are off. They should be close to 0 or 1-2% +/-. It looks like your LTFTs are having to add fuel in that operating range. Yet at idle, your having to pull A LOT of fuel. -30% is the ECM reducing the commanded fuel amount by a third! That's huge!

Looking at your snapshot there is one HUGE reading you're missing...the front O2 reading. We're not seeing what that O2 sensor is reporting. I believe the RL Sky uses a narrow band O2 so while we won't have a very accurate reading some reading is better than no reading. If the O2 is failing at idle, we'll see it in the scan and that's going to drive your STFT into the negative.
 
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