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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all, long time first time and all that...

Anyway, I was at a service workshop at my local dealership recently (the primarily goal of which was to feed people, give away door prizes, and introduce the underneath of the vehicles), and a couple of folks from GM corporate were there. I pulled one aside to talk about the Sky, and was able to gleen the following information. Salt and pepper to taste.

- The price "under 25k" actually means "well under 25k". I was told to expect the base price to be 22-23k, with a lot of standard equipment. He admitted to not seeing any official pricing yet however.
- There will be a roadshow, where the car is taken around to all the various dealerships, but probably not until next year. They don't want to confuse the general public (i.e. non-nutcases, i.e. people other than us) by heavily marketing a car that won't be released for another year. He alluded to having similar balancing-act issues with the Hummer H3. Though he didn't say anything about it, this could explain the car's presence at most shows only on press day.
- The press is eating this car up. He gets grilled on pretty much every new GM model, but gets nothing but complements about getting it right on the Sky.

Well, that's I all I got for you. Keep the info flowing..

------------------------------------------------
'99 Saturn LS2
'03 Saturn VUE AWD vTi
'05 Saturn ION 2
'05 Saturn VUE AWD V6
'07 Saturn Sky
 

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The lower base price would be welcomed news. But I really doubt that will be the case. On the other hand, GM is going to produce the turbo version so a base price of 22k-23k would allow them to keep the turbo version relatively affordable at under 30k.
 

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radtech said:
GM is going to produce the turbo version so a base price of 22k-23k would allow them to keep the turbo version relatively affordable at under 30k.
Where do I sign? :cheers:
 

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They may lose me

:mad: Everytime I visit and read a post, there seems to be an implication the time table is moving back and the number of Sky's available is getting smaller. How will they hold the line in price if the car is as popular as it appears to be? Saturn's business plan is 'non-negotiating'

I may have to rethink my choice and go back to the Miata or MR-2.

I would hate to waste this year (or more) and not be able to purchase the car.

Marc
 

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Don't be hasty

If you're referring to the roadshow next year, think of it this way:
A roadshow could start in late Feb / early March and build up to a release of the car in early April. We've already heard somewhere here say that it can't hit the dealer before April 1 and be considered a 2007 model year car, and we have one of the magazines (MPH?) having a contest and the winner taking delivery of a new Sky on April 10, so I consider that a pretty firm 10 day window in which the car will be sold..

.. you don't really want to buy a new convertible in January, do you? Or do you live in Florida where putting the top down in the middle of winter isn't a problem? :cool: [Edit: note to self, observe that posted DOES live in florida before making silly comment like this :D ]

Me, I can't buy one until August anyway. I was forced to take a 2-yr lease on an Ion after my LS2 crapped out on me a year too early. I can break it after 18 months, which works out to August 21.. got it marked on the calendar :willy:
 

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Hey man-- if you want a Sky, then you will wait until it is released. Period.

If not, then you want "a roadster", and it shouldn't bother you that the Sky isn't ready yet since there are at least half-a-dozen to choose from in the segment right now-- buy 'em up.

This goes back to the guy in the first post:

They don't want to confuse the general public (i.e. non-nutcases, i.e. people other than us) by heavily marketing a car that won't be released for another year.
If you're freaking out, just re-read that and remember that we're hearing about this car unusually early-- think about the old days: we'd have known nothing at all about the existence of this car until the year prior to its release.

I'm happy to wait and save, and I'm also pleased to see another indication of a reasonable price-point (albeit an informal and non-official one)

Cheers--
 

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mhw745 said:
:mad: Everytime I visit and read a post, there seems to be an implication the time table is moving back and the number of Sky's available is getting smaller. How will they hold the line in price if the car is as popular as it appears to be? Saturn's business plan is 'non-negotiating'

I may have to rethink my choice and go back to the Miata or MR-2.

I would hate to waste this year (or more) and not be able to purchase the car.

Marc
I'm not sure what you're refering to?

There has NEVER been an official time table besides "early 2006," which from everything we've read is still the current inidcation. There has also been absolutely no change in the number of Skys available either. GM has always implied they would sell less (about half) the number of Skys as they will Solstices which implies 10k units. I really don't see why you wouldn't be able to get one for MSRP either. First of all Saturn has the no-hagle pricing and GM is strongly encouraging all Pontiac dealers to sell Solstices at MSRP, no reason the Sky would be any different. Currently if you pay over MSRP on a Solstice, then apparently you dind't look very hard past the one dealer. There are plenty of dealers selling Solstices at MSRP.
 

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actuley i think if the deman is there they can do 20k to match the solstice in producton. that is what i was told my my dad who designed the hydroforming plant. he is a aia and has also did the crystler teck center in mi, paint sshop on corvete asmbly, the catty plant in lansing mi i also took a trip to china with him gm is investing 3 million over there.
 

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theirishgonzo said:
actuley i think if the deman is there they can do 20k to match the solstice in producton. that is what i was told my my dad who designed the hydroforming plant. he is a aia and has also did the crystler teck center in mi, paint sshop on corvete asmbly, the catty plant in lansing mi i also took a trip to china with him gm is investing 3 million over there.
They have to reserve plant capacity for the Opel version that will come on line later. As we've seen from preorders for Solstice, 20k, 10k, and maybe another 10k for Opel to sell everywhere else in the world won't be enough to equal demand. Then also if they ever decide to do something else on the platform like the Chevy Nomad or a 4 passenger car and then you have a p[lant running at near 100% capacity. A normal car plant can spew out thousands and thousands of cars in a month but the kappa production process is inherently slower.

I see a pent up demand for GM's answer to Ford's Mustang. With Camaro and Firebird gone for maybe forever what else is there? Cobalt? GTO? 'vette? Here is one way to look at it>> MT dares to compare the Mustang GT 'vert to the Nissan Z droptop, even though one is 4 seater and the other only 2. So if GM can create from the Sol/Sky a car that can go head to head with the Z machine then it follows that::: If Z = M and S = Z, then S = M. But there is the crux of the argument, and the solution that there is no solution because Kappa production will never reach capacity to even come close to half of Mustang. The ponycar is dead(??), long live the ponycar!!
 

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I really fon't expect more then 1k Opels to be made a year. The car/market it's taking over (vx220/Speedster) already sells less then 1000 cars a year across all Euro areas.
 

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brentil said:
I really fon't expect more then 1k Opels to be made a year. The car/market it's taking over (vx220/Speedster) already sells less then 1000 cars a year across all Euro areas.
Sorry brentil, I hate to correct you but where do you have these numbers from?

Here's a link to the "KBA" (Kraftfahrt Bundesamt) which is our Department for car-related statistics here in Germany:

http://www.kba.de/Abt3_neu/KraftfahrzeugStatistiken/Reihen/Reihe1_2005_05.pdf

(You shoud be able to read most of ist even without speaking German).

As one can see, even the Mercedes SLK has been sold over 2000 times in May alone. From January till May over 10000 SLK's have been sold in Germany. BMW is selling ~half that number of Z4's and the quite low number of MX-5's is related to the dawn of the successor.

If you ask me, and I've said that before, the market in Germany alone (!) would be able to absorb at least 5000 Kappas! For whole Europe I even think that 10000 is a VERY low number for Opel (could well be 15000 or more, depending on the cars success, the market is that big).
 

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Thought about it again. Both our numbers might be correct. The problem is that the new Opel WILL NOT take over the market of the Speedster. The Speedster was in principle a purist race car for far more money (min. 35000 € instead of ~27k € for the new Kappa). For this amount one can buy a SLK here and a BMW Z4 is even less! So you see that it is not good to compare the old market of the Speedster with the possible new one for the Kappa.

The Opel-Kappa will by no means be the successor of the Speedster which will see end of production this year because of the lack of interest in the car (too extreme, too expensive). The market of the VERY BAD selling Speedster might have been only 1000 units in Europe per year (It's very hard to see one). On the other hand one can see MX-5's around every corner and I'd expect the new Kappa to be at least as common.
 

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From what I have read from the official GM releases, the Wilmington plant can only produce a limited number of cars per year due to the Hydroforming process... the origonal statement of 20,000 Solstices,(one even said total plant capacity was 20,000 per year :confused: ) 10,000 Skys and 5000 split between other Kappa platforms seems very resonable considering the information released by GM...since there are around 4000 Saturn dealerships and a limit of 2 per month per dealer (from what my dealer tells me) these figures sound pretty substantiated..
 

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I really don't know the numbers but I trust GM to have calculated the numbers well. Some of you seem to be surprised that it might be thousands of Opels instead of one thousand. I'm sure GM was watching the European roadster market for years. They'll know their chances and of cause they'll know the selling potential of the home (US) market.

Maybe the car will sell better and they'll have to produce 20% more. But I doubt they calculated that bad that they'll have real big problems with production capacities.

In case of "emergency" they could do what every manufacturer that plays in the global league would do: have an additional plant produce parts or even the whole car. That would be nothing new and nothing that problematic, if the car really sells THAT good.

If you ask me, they'll stay with their production capacities as long as the demand allows that.

And they have the great advantage that the 3 Kappas start with a relatively long time in between (no Opel before 2007). So if it turns out that Wilmington isn't able to handle Solstice, Sky and Opel-Kappa, they'll either ramp up production as fast as possible or solve the problem another way. I know some GM plants in Europe that would be glad to take over if needed.

So, don't worry. The only car I know you had to wait 10 years for was the East-German (GDR) "Trabant" :D !
 

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t.henss said:
Sorry brentil, I hate to correct you but where do you have these numbers from?

Here's a link to the "KBA" (Kraftfahrt Bundesamt) which is our Department for car-related statistics here in Germany:

http://www.kba.de/Abt3_neu/KraftfahrzeugStatistiken/Reihen/Reihe1_2005_05.pdf

(You shoud be able to read most of ist even without speaking German).

As one can see, even the Mercedes SLK has been sold over 2000 times in May alone. From January till May over 10000 SLK's have been sold in Germany. BMW is selling ~half that number of Z4's and the quite low number of MX-5's is related to the dawn of the successor.

If you ask me, and I've said that before, the market in Germany alone (!) would be able to absorb at least 5000 Kappas! For whole Europe I even think that 10000 is a VERY low number for Opel (could well be 15000 or more, depending on the cars success, the market is that big).
What I said was the VX220/Speedters. GM's official sales numbers show them as selling less then 1000 total between the two, which your PDF backs up. I wasn't saying all Roadsters, I wa saying the ones that these will more then likely be replacing.
 

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t.henss said:
Thought about it again. Both our numbers might be correct. The problem is that the new Opel WILL NOT take over the market of the Speedster.
Sorry brentil. I haven't read your post careful enough. Your numbers are correct and so are mine.

As I've said before, one can't compare Speedster-sales to possible future Kappa-sales.

Here in Europe the Speedster was as extreme, expensive and rare as the Lotus Elise (which is almost the same car besides the optical differences).

I'd like to repeat that I have no fear that the cars won't be available for everyone who wants to purchase one.
 

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geerhed said:
GM should do a world car.. combine all three cars into one..
In essence they are the same car, just with different skins on them. The main problem is Pontiac/Saturn are NA only dealerhsips. You wont find them overseas at this time.
 
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