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Discussion Starter #22
I'm going to say that I think he is partially right, but that it is important to recognize the differences between the FJs and us.

One thing, it is not a "National" it is an "Annual". That may be splitting hairs, but I think that it speaks to the intent of the event.

Attendance in Colorado next year is going to be an essential indicator of my main concern, and that is that the center of the country is not the center of the population, and especially not the Kappa population. When I bought a mailing list of Kappa owners I split it between Kentucky and Colorado, and I think it is significant that there are 5000 owners within a 225 mile radius of Lexington, but it takes an 800 mile radius to include 5000 owners around Central City, Colorado. This is reflected, I think, in the attendance of past Annuals: Nashville in '07 drew 162, Colorado in '09 drew 125, and Canton in '10 drew 203. Eastern meets have drawn more people, probably because more people have a shorter drive to them.

With almost 5,000 owners in California, an Annual in Temecula could well be the largest on record without even crossing the state line.

Where do attendees at the FJ National live? My guess is that the ones who participate are from areas where off-roading is the most popular, and that probably doesn't correspond to where driving sports cars is the most popular. Is there a record of where the attendees live?

I am also curious about how the professional management works, so a key question is: What is the cost structure for the FJ National? Where do they get their money, and what do they spend it on? How much does professional management cost?

I have said before, and still believe, that "we" cannot decide where the Annual is going to be and expect people to accept it. A fixed location Annual is going to grow from a location that is popular enough to attract people year after year, and that is only going to be determined by repeating an event year after year and having good attendance.
 

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Attendance in Colorado next year is going to be an essential indicator of my main concern, and that is that the center of the country is not the center of the population, and especially not the Kappa population. When I bought a mailing list of Kappa owners I split it between Kentucky and Colorado, and I think it is significant that there are 5000 owners within a 225 mile radius of Lexington, but it takes an 800 mile radius to include 5000 owners around Central City, Colorado. This is reflected, I think, in the attendance of past Annuals: Nashville in '07 drew 162, Colorado in '09 drew 125, and Canton in '10 drew 203. Eastern meets have drawn more people, probably because more people have a shorter drive to them.
This is the crux of the matter. Where do your attendees live? All of our events that have had the larger turn out have been in the eastern 1/3 of the country, east of the Mississippi. That is where the biggest group of Kappa owners reside.

:thumbs:

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With almost 5,000 owners in California, an Annual in Temecula could well be the largest on record without even crossing the state line.
Actually Temecula would be both horrible and terrific. Great location as far as ambiance, places to drive, wineries (lots of beautiful wine country) but geographical location is not ideal. Situated far inland between Riverside and San Diego we are VERY far South in the state and out in the middle of the desert. Temperatures now are in the 100s.

California is a LONG state...big too but not Texas or Alaska big...but it's really long. Think Florida to New York City kind of long. Temecula would be in Florida. Now I don't know how many owners are in SoCal but I know there are a lot.

The bigger issue is getting them to come out. 90% of the time when I run across another owner they are completely unaware that even our regional clubs exist...or the forum...or the FB groups. Getting the word out to the owners here and getting them interested in something like this would be a bigger challenge than where to put the even for maximum attendance.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
...

The bigger issue is getting them to come out. 90% of the time when I run across another owner they are completely unaware that even our regional clubs exist...or the forum...or the FB groups. Getting the word out to the owners here and getting them interested in something like this would be a bigger challenge than where to put the even for maximum attendance.
This is a universal problem. I sent out 5000 postcards and got maybe 100 responses. Not attendees, responses. Only 2% of the people that received a 6x11 postcard in the mail were even interested in sending an email saying they might be interested in future activities.
 

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John, hope this answers some of your questions. A close friend is still a director, that is the title they use, will try to pin him down this year and get some better answers for you and the group.

As to the post card, most people are so overwhelmed with garbage mail, they don't look at it if it does not fit the regular bill measurement. I know I have told our mail lady to throw it away. Some of them do, some don't.

The Summit is not run by a professional organization, just guys from the group that put it on every year. There has been personnel change over the years. But basically just a group of FJ guys that want a National event. One guy drives a Scout!!!!

The FJ Summit is an annual event, held in the same spot year after year. The promoters are FJ owners that decided it would be kool to get everyone together for the first year, it just kept growing and growing.

Drivers are from every state, Mexico, all provinces of Canada and a few from Europe and South America I have been told. But like any event, Colorado participants out number every other state. I do not have a break down of numbers but possibly could get that.

To be honest there have been calls to move it, some feel it has been there too long, but this year we have a very large number of first time attendees, nearly 80% I was told. It normally sells out in less than 30 seconds. (350 trucks) Meaning they have a lot of money to start with. Deadline for the July event is 1 April. Nothing is sold until that day. Waiting list is said to normally be near 700. I am one of 8 that has made all FJ Summits. My guess is there are more Kappa people that have made all 12.

It is quite expensive to attend, but you do get quite a bit from them. For a family (3.5) to attend close to 500.00. With tee shirts and souvenirs They charge for vendors to show up, minimum I think is 500.00 cash with matching product to over 10,000 cash and matching product. Their raffle generates a tremendous amount of money. They sell tickets every day of the event. I am guessing on this, but close to 20K on the raffle. It could be more, but not much less.

They have several high school scholarships and mountain rescue as their main charities. Both have been guaranteed the scholarship and the mountain rescue funds will go on for at least ten years after the final event. Money in the bank.

It is a different group no question, but several have tried the moving to other areas and none of them have come anywhere near what the Summit is. I do believe they now have a Canadian Summit.

Our cars have been a dead item for a lot longer than the FJ, died in 2014 model year. But the Summit continues to grow, bring in new people and a lot of it is the experience of Ouray, Silverton and Telluride. Many that don't get in the Summit go the week before or the week after. Paradise for scenic off roading. But it does have some of the most beautiful mountain roads in the country surrounding it, so it isn't just off road specific. That is why all the movie stars/multi millionaires own homes in Telluride, sheer unsurpassed beauty.

I think Rob and group have hit on a great place, being that most are east of the Mississippi it would be a western area, and people love to go to the mountains for vacation. I am anxious to see how it works out for the group. I have volunteered to lead runs and help anyway I can, but it is just too far away to be involved with the planning of it.

Comparing apples to oranges I guess.

The Kappa cars are getting older and 4000 mile trips are not something that is going to happen much longer. Toyota is required to make parts for them until 2024, that has a large in put to I would think.

Plus the FJ Cruiser has held is value beyond belief. 2007's that sold for 27-30K are still bringing well over 17K. I recently turned down 22K for mine. Will never sell it, just like my Yellow Skpel. Love them.
 

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Here's my 2 cents: I don't like the idea of having it in the same location every year. That being said, we especially liked Lexington because there were activities not related to driving. If it were to be Lexington again in 2019, we would plan to attend.
 

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Maybe this needs a seperate thread, but has there ever been a discussion of forming a National Kappa Club?

But then again, car clubs seem to be on the wain so maybe its just a thing who's time is passing.

Might make 2019, event, who knows.
 

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Dave,

I think GM Roadster failed due to the leadership/owner not truly doing/interested in their job. A part of it is still operational in San Diego, and is a very active group. They ran a good sized regional event awhile back I heard.

Robo and I have talked about an Inland Empire club, as there are quite a few cars close by. Temecula seems to be a nest for them. Unfortunately, as I hate the crap, you need to be involved more with Facebook. These forum type things are not going to be around a lot longer is my guess, and they reach far fewer people. I prefer it, would rather take a sharp stick in the eye than go on FB though.

But for it to really be something, you would need to have dues and leadership, and those that wanted to promote the vehicle. I think they exist, and I would be willing to pay annual dues and help anyway I could.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
When there proved to be insufficient interest to sustain a "Club", a group of us attempted to put together an organization that would assist local groups in executing the Annual Meet. The idea was to have a core group that could supply the web hosting and a basic framework to help the local group get started. There wasn't enough interest for that, either, and the idea went away. We are a very independent group of people, it seems.
 

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Dave,

I think GM Roadster failed due to the leadership/owner not truly doing/interested in their job. A part of it is still operational in San Diego, and is a very active group. They ran a good sized regional event awhile back I heard.
GM Roadster held itself out as a national club, kind of a club of clubs. In actuality, it was a marketing effort for selling parts and providing organization/web sites for "member" clubs.

It was a relatively good idea, and might have worked if it had had full-time attention to detail and operation, which was sadly lacking.

NASSOA was a good effort at a national organization, but failed. Why? I don't know.

:dunno:

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I spent a few months trying to get a hold of a guy named Martin at GM Roadster, to join the club, be involved and attend a major event in Arizona. Never a call, pm or any response. I see a little of it from the San Diego group. They will not post anything on either forum, but do a lot on Facebook I understand. Somehow the group from San Diego came up with the name eventually. At least as we were told when we joined the group. We do pay annual dues and they put on several events a year. I have my Palm Springs run, this will be the fourth one in October. They promote it in their database, but never a word on here.

To be honest though, we never received a single entry from anyone on the board other than people we already knew. Kind of sad, honestly. Ours is free, and everyone walks away with a tee shirt at least, and the poker run winner normally gets over 500.00 worth of stuff they can use. Again thanks to DDM, Solo Performance and Windrestrictor.
 

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...NASSOA was a good effort at a national organization, but failed. Why? I don't know.
:dunno:
NASSOA went under because Pontiac went under. Since it was a factory supported organization, it was supposed to get annual monetary support from Pontiac. Without that, membership dues weren't enough to cover the event insurance to cover sanctioned events. So, the decision was made to donate what was left in the NASSOA account to the Ohio NASSAM for seed money & fold the tent.
 

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NASSOA went under because Pontiac went under. Since it was a factory supported organization, it was supposed to get annual monetary support from Pontiac. Without that, membership dues weren't enough to cover the event insurance to cover sanctioned events. So, the decision was made to donate what was left in the NASSOA account to the Ohio NASSAM for seed money & fold the tent.
I never knew about monetary support from Pontiac.

:dunno:

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Discussion Starter #38
A couple of quotes from the Solstice Forum that should illustrate that NASSOA died from lack of interest rather than lack of funding:

NASSOA Membership/Kappa Owners

It is with great sadness that the NASSOA council announces the sunset of the NASSOA organization. Effectively immediately, membership solicitation will no longer be accepted. Additionally, no further action will be taken on council membership nominations nor solicitations for hosting the 2011 NASSM.

The council has voted and taken this difficult step due to a steady decline in new and renewal memberships as well as the demise of both the Pontiac and Saturn brands causing the loss of our national brand managers at GM. Additional Association funds will be offered to the 2010 Canton NASSM committee for their use and any remaining funds will be donated to the American Red Cross in support of the Haiti Earthquake relief effort.

The original council members who served in various positions, most of whom remain today, wish to thank all those kappa owners who supported NASSOA over the past 3 years. We all believed in the original "Pontiac Excitement" the Solstice brought followed up by its Sky counterpart. The initial enthusiasm was overwhelming as exhibited by the grassroots movement which resulted in the first NASSM in Kansas City in June 2006. It was even more impressive to see all the regional clubs develop as well as the special meets begin to organize such as Tail of the Dragon in North Carolina and Twisting to The River in Ohio. The NASSM carried on through Nashville, Las Vegas, Denver and leading into this year at Canton.

However, the economy and other financial difficulties have impacted us all. Many of the regional clubs have grown smaller with fewer renewals and members as well. The NASSM participation has grown, but not to the level anticipated, and with the demise of both car brands, the original enthusiasm has begun to dissipate. The council sincerely hopes the grassroots movement which enabled NASSOA to begin, will carry on and continue the NASSM tradition in 2011.

Respectively submitted,

Carl
Acting Chair
NASSOA Council
as a current council member who voted to sunset this organization....most dont know the situation of the organization......yes the organization can remain in name only if the membership votes to maintain it....with that said.....when the call for new officers went out over a year ago....only one nomination was sent in, when the call for nominations went out to host the next national event after Canton...agaid silence........seems many people want to keep the organization..but yet noone wants to step up to do the work that is needed to keep it going (membership, accounting, tax filing, vendor solicitation, website maintenance, banking, and much more)......all of us have been working the organization for over three years now....and as Mel stated..worked our butts off to make this happen....and remember....we are all volunteers here...and this isnt our full time job.......but yet we have devoted countless hours to make it ....
also.....many times the organization was defamed by some and more that I dont feel needs to be rehashed here........this organization was deeply linked to corporate GM and marketing brand managers who we dealt with frequently.......all that is gone......we had repeatedly asked for suggestions for how to make it better....and got nothing in return..but yet....now....it seems everyone has an opinion......yes some local clubs may have grown...but our outlook shows many have simply reached a plateau......and the renewals significantly down.......as was mentioned.....a local organization can do more for its immediate membership...than a not for profit national organization....... I could go on...but for those who vote NO to sunset the organization.....what are you prepared to do to keep it afloat is my question to you?
 

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This has been an interesting stroll down memory lane, but we should probably return our attention to the subject of this thread, NASSAM 2019 and discussion thereof.

Thanks.

:thumbs:

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