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Nassam 2019

16K views 116 replies 23 participants last post by  Rob the Elder 
#1 ·
Now that NASSAM 2017 is over it is time to put serious thought and action into 2019. I will speak from recent experience and say that one year is not enough time to effectively plan this event, so now is the time for a decision to be made.

There are rumors about interest in Georgia and in the Adirondacks. Are those serious considerations, and is anyone else interested in hosting 2019?

Let me stir the pot a little with this: I am putting preliminary plans in motion to repeat in Lexington, so if someone doesn't step up you're going to be stuck with us again!
 
#2 ·
Heaven forbid! Just kidding you a bit John. I'd tend to agree with you on the "more than a year" aspect. If there is anything I can do to help other than attend, let me know. (As I think on it a bit, Little Miss E will be 10 years old in 2019, and I may be able to miss her birthday party and actually come to a Nationals . . . :dunno: )

:thumbs:

.
 
#3 ·
Sounds good, I was at Lexington last week and look forward to the next one.
If I can help, let me know.
Lexington was great!
Good to have meet you John
 
#5 ·
Yes. 2018 is in Colorado, but it is time now for the 2019 planing to get started. Unless there is already a significant framework in place it takes over a year to plan one of these, and two years is certainly better.
 
#6 ·
Pensacola might be nice; maybe somewhere on the Gulf Coast for once just to tempt The Fates during hurricane season. :) Try something different for a change. Yes, near sea level flatland roads abound but twisties can be found almost anywhere. Local landmarks and great seafood would be plentiful. Folks in the South ought to step up :driving: and get in the driver's seat.
 
#10 ·
Still one bridge too far for you to visit here? :wink:

Now that NASSAM 2017 is over it is time to put serious thought and action into 2019. I will speak from recent experience and say that one year is not enough time to effectively plan this event, so now is the time for a decision to be made.

There are rumors about interest in Georgia and in the Adirondacks. Are those serious considerations, and is anyone else interested in hosting 2019?

Let me stir the pot a little with this: I am putting preliminary plans in motion to repeat in Lexington, so if someone doesn't step up you're going to be stuck with us again!
I am definitely interested in helping if in Adirondacks (or similar area in NY). If people are willing to help to get it in Central NY, which can include runs to the eastern Catskills and Adirondacks, plus track time at Watkins Glen, Finger Lakes wine tours, and visits to the Baseball Hall of Fame... I can look into some nice hotel options. Plus, people that have come to the August Kappa Kruise can drive through the stream again. ;)
 
#8 ·
I live near Corpus Christ,but the twisties dont start till you get about 200 miles north of here and the seafood, so is Mexican food is here. But the best Mexican food is near Austin, 200miles north of here. Too far away and there is no "Club" superstructure in this area and further, I will be 82 by then. Texas is too spread out from attraction to attraction. Those that live here dont have a problem driving 150 miles RT for dinner, but most people would:willy:.
 
#12 ·
Think Asheville NC. You've got the Blue Ridge Parkway, the Cherohala Skyway and (let us pray)the Tail of the Dragon with its 11 miles of 318 curves where horse power means nothing but three hands on the wheel do.
 
#14 ·
A very good comment, but in addition to someone interested in organizing the event, you need people who are capable of planning, presenting, and managing a good event. We've been lucky so far with the 12 annual events that have been done, and for the most part, been done very well.

:dthumbs:

.
 
#17 ·
My comment was not directed toward you, and the original mention of the Adirondacks came from a suggestion by one person that another person should organize one there.

I will lend whatever assistance I can from a distance. That may mainly be passing on what worked and what didn't for me (your situation will be somewhat different) and what I would change if I had a do-over.
 
#18 ·
Regarding my comments about Lexington in 2019: I am making arrangements as a backstop to the possibility that 2019 will be a repeat of 2017 with no one willing to take on the challenge, but I would actually prefer that it be somewhere else. I am always looking for an excuse to return to Watkins Glen, for instance, and have never been to Muscle Shoals. I hope that I haven't discouraged others from investigating their area because there is a lot to be said for going to a different location each year.

There is still plenty of time for a group to explore options and make a proposal for 2019. The main time-critical activity is the reservation of meeting space, especially for the banquet. Places with seating for 300 are not thick upon the ground near where we want to be, and they tend to get reserved early. Even without a team in place, one interested person can make inquiries about space and make a non-binding reservation for it while the rest of the details are explored. Based on early practice and what we went through over the past year, January 2018 is a very workable deadline for making the decision about location.

Remember too that if convention is followed, 2020 is likely to be a Western event.

Druid made a pretty good list of "requirements", on the Sol forum, and I expanded on it:
1) Event facilities capable of handling up to 300 people
2) Multiple hotels in close proximity to maximize people's choices
3) Flexible hotel and event sit management that understand you are an amateur and will cater to a car group
4) Good roads with interesting destinations in close proximity to the main site
5) Easy access to those roads without a long trek down the highway or travel through a congested area
6) Food and relief facilities located in appropriate locations along the routes
7) Enough people to lead runs, run registration, organize activities, stage cars for runs, and set up things like the car show
8) If you are the main organizer, don't plan to do any of the runs. The go-to person has to be on site to answer questions and make decisions
9) Enough people close enough to drive all of the routes multiple times. Mapping can initially be done remotely, but testing has to be done in person, and every single edit has to be tested
?) All of the other little things that you won't know until you don't have them

And I will repeat my offer of assistance.
 
#19 ·
Wish NASSAM would come to the SW! Colorado is a remote possibility for us in 2018. It's a 12 hour drive each way. Getting older and that would be a 2 day drive for us so not sure we can make it. Would love see it come to southern California, Arizona or New Mexico. Lots of great country in each.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Personal opinion on this, but have been involved with doing the FJ Summit National for 10 years.

These are regional events and should be called that. A National is where everyone has some access to the event, centrally located. I would love to have one in Temecula, California. But would you truly draw any type of percentage from east of the Mississippi.

The first National in Kansas City had the right idea, and I think the club/organization should run the whole show. I know it is non profit but workers can be paid out of a non profit set up. Find a group that would run the event, and get paid for some of their time. Make it the same every year, so more people have an opportunity to attend. Establish relationships with the city that it is in and work with them, year after year. It is amazing what can be accomplished in this scenario.

I can make trips to the center of the country for a National, not the east coast, Florida or New England. If I am not mistaken there was one Kappa from California at the National this year, and I would guess two last year. I think the state has a tremendous number of them registered so you eliminate them. just the same as if you had it in Phoenix, it would eliminate pretty much everyone east of the Mississippi.

You can not drive from New York to Phoenix in a day or two normally, so for attendance you are spending 8 days on the road driving and 5 days at the event with long drives. It just does not add up for the vast majority of people with these cars.

Colorado, the front range, maybe the ideal spot for a reoccurring National. A very active group and have ran one already, and taking on number 2 I believe. I am not volunteering Rob to run it by any means. But as a group we need to start thinking long range. This flip flopping across the country isn't building the support a National is intended to do.

I would assume most of us have lives and do not fully revolve around our Kappa's.

Find 6-8 people that know how to run a National. Get them together, figure a salary for their efforts, and depend on the local club for added support.

The FJ Summit is a much larger event, ran by 5 people. It goes off nearly flawlessly ever single year. 350 trucks on 8 different routes thru the day. Free dinners three nights of the week, that is feeding 900 people each time. Over 200K in raffle prizes, and 40 to 50 vendors. A much larger operation, in every aspect. But they have been doing it for 11 years. Know what they can do and what they can't. What they need to support and how to support them. You learn this thru repetition.

Please don't get me wrong, I appreciate everything that has been done in the past, the effort that all have given for the Nationals of the past, but it may be time to reconsider how things are done. I talked with JohnWR and agreed he learned a lot that he could put to use if he had another one. That is why he has volunteered in case no one wants to take the ball and run with it for 2019. Good people doing this, we as a group just need to make it easier and less stressful for the organizers/promoters.
 
#22 ·
I'm going to say that I think he is partially right, but that it is important to recognize the differences between the FJs and us.

One thing, it is not a "National" it is an "Annual". That may be splitting hairs, but I think that it speaks to the intent of the event.

Attendance in Colorado next year is going to be an essential indicator of my main concern, and that is that the center of the country is not the center of the population, and especially not the Kappa population. When I bought a mailing list of Kappa owners I split it between Kentucky and Colorado, and I think it is significant that there are 5000 owners within a 225 mile radius of Lexington, but it takes an 800 mile radius to include 5000 owners around Central City, Colorado. This is reflected, I think, in the attendance of past Annuals: Nashville in '07 drew 162, Colorado in '09 drew 125, and Canton in '10 drew 203. Eastern meets have drawn more people, probably because more people have a shorter drive to them.

With almost 5,000 owners in California, an Annual in Temecula could well be the largest on record without even crossing the state line.

Where do attendees at the FJ National live? My guess is that the ones who participate are from areas where off-roading is the most popular, and that probably doesn't correspond to where driving sports cars is the most popular. Is there a record of where the attendees live?

I am also curious about how the professional management works, so a key question is: What is the cost structure for the FJ National? Where do they get their money, and what do they spend it on? How much does professional management cost?

I have said before, and still believe, that "we" cannot decide where the Annual is going to be and expect people to accept it. A fixed location Annual is going to grow from a location that is popular enough to attract people year after year, and that is only going to be determined by repeating an event year after year and having good attendance.
 
#23 ·
Attendance in Colorado next year is going to be an essential indicator of my main concern, and that is that the center of the country is not the center of the population, and especially not the Kappa population. When I bought a mailing list of Kappa owners I split it between Kentucky and Colorado, and I think it is significant that there are 5000 owners within a 225 mile radius of Lexington, but it takes an 800 mile radius to include 5000 owners around Central City, Colorado. This is reflected, I think, in the attendance of past Annuals: Nashville in '07 drew 162, Colorado in '09 drew 125, and Canton in '10 drew 203. Eastern meets have drawn more people, probably because more people have a shorter drive to them.
This is the crux of the matter. Where do your attendees live? All of our events that have had the larger turn out have been in the eastern 1/3 of the country, east of the Mississippi. That is where the biggest group of Kappa owners reside.

:thumbs:

.
 
#26 ·
John, hope this answers some of your questions. A close friend is still a director, that is the title they use, will try to pin him down this year and get some better answers for you and the group.

As to the post card, most people are so overwhelmed with garbage mail, they don't look at it if it does not fit the regular bill measurement. I know I have told our mail lady to throw it away. Some of them do, some don't.

The Summit is not run by a professional organization, just guys from the group that put it on every year. There has been personnel change over the years. But basically just a group of FJ guys that want a National event. One guy drives a Scout!!!!

The FJ Summit is an annual event, held in the same spot year after year. The promoters are FJ owners that decided it would be kool to get everyone together for the first year, it just kept growing and growing.

Drivers are from every state, Mexico, all provinces of Canada and a few from Europe and South America I have been told. But like any event, Colorado participants out number every other state. I do not have a break down of numbers but possibly could get that.

To be honest there have been calls to move it, some feel it has been there too long, but this year we have a very large number of first time attendees, nearly 80% I was told. It normally sells out in less than 30 seconds. (350 trucks) Meaning they have a lot of money to start with. Deadline for the July event is 1 April. Nothing is sold until that day. Waiting list is said to normally be near 700. I am one of 8 that has made all FJ Summits. My guess is there are more Kappa people that have made all 12.

It is quite expensive to attend, but you do get quite a bit from them. For a family (3.5) to attend close to 500.00. With tee shirts and souvenirs They charge for vendors to show up, minimum I think is 500.00 cash with matching product to over 10,000 cash and matching product. Their raffle generates a tremendous amount of money. They sell tickets every day of the event. I am guessing on this, but close to 20K on the raffle. It could be more, but not much less.

They have several high school scholarships and mountain rescue as their main charities. Both have been guaranteed the scholarship and the mountain rescue funds will go on for at least ten years after the final event. Money in the bank.

It is a different group no question, but several have tried the moving to other areas and none of them have come anywhere near what the Summit is. I do believe they now have a Canadian Summit.

Our cars have been a dead item for a lot longer than the FJ, died in 2014 model year. But the Summit continues to grow, bring in new people and a lot of it is the experience of Ouray, Silverton and Telluride. Many that don't get in the Summit go the week before or the week after. Paradise for scenic off roading. But it does have some of the most beautiful mountain roads in the country surrounding it, so it isn't just off road specific. That is why all the movie stars/multi millionaires own homes in Telluride, sheer unsurpassed beauty.

I think Rob and group have hit on a great place, being that most are east of the Mississippi it would be a western area, and people love to go to the mountains for vacation. I am anxious to see how it works out for the group. I have volunteered to lead runs and help anyway I can, but it is just too far away to be involved with the planning of it.

Comparing apples to oranges I guess.

The Kappa cars are getting older and 4000 mile trips are not something that is going to happen much longer. Toyota is required to make parts for them until 2024, that has a large in put to I would think.

Plus the FJ Cruiser has held is value beyond belief. 2007's that sold for 27-30K are still bringing well over 17K. I recently turned down 22K for mine. Will never sell it, just like my Yellow Skpel. Love them.
 
#29 ·
Maybe this needs a seperate thread, but has there ever been a discussion of forming a National Kappa Club?

But then again, car clubs seem to be on the wain so maybe its just a thing who's time is passing.

Might make 2019, event, who knows.
 
#31 ·
Dave,

I think GM Roadster failed due to the leadership/owner not truly doing/interested in their job. A part of it is still operational in San Diego, and is a very active group. They ran a good sized regional event awhile back I heard.

Robo and I have talked about an Inland Empire club, as there are quite a few cars close by. Temecula seems to be a nest for them. Unfortunately, as I hate the crap, you need to be involved more with Facebook. These forum type things are not going to be around a lot longer is my guess, and they reach far fewer people. I prefer it, would rather take a sharp stick in the eye than go on FB though.

But for it to really be something, you would need to have dues and leadership, and those that wanted to promote the vehicle. I think they exist, and I would be willing to pay annual dues and help anyway I could.
 
#33 ·
Dave,

I think GM Roadster failed due to the leadership/owner not truly doing/interested in their job. A part of it is still operational in San Diego, and is a very active group. They ran a good sized regional event awhile back I heard.
GM Roadster held itself out as a national club, kind of a club of clubs. In actuality, it was a marketing effort for selling parts and providing organization/web sites for "member" clubs.

It was a relatively good idea, and might have worked if it had had full-time attention to detail and operation, which was sadly lacking.

NASSOA was a good effort at a national organization, but failed. Why? I don't know.

:dunno:

.
 
#32 ·
When there proved to be insufficient interest to sustain a "Club", a group of us attempted to put together an organization that would assist local groups in executing the Annual Meet. The idea was to have a core group that could supply the web hosting and a basic framework to help the local group get started. There wasn't enough interest for that, either, and the idea went away. We are a very independent group of people, it seems.
 
#34 ·
I spent a few months trying to get a hold of a guy named Martin at GM Roadster, to join the club, be involved and attend a major event in Arizona. Never a call, pm or any response. I see a little of it from the San Diego group. They will not post anything on either forum, but do a lot on Facebook I understand. Somehow the group from San Diego came up with the name eventually. At least as we were told when we joined the group. We do pay annual dues and they put on several events a year. I have my Palm Springs run, this will be the fourth one in October. They promote it in their database, but never a word on here.

To be honest though, we never received a single entry from anyone on the board other than people we already knew. Kind of sad, honestly. Ours is free, and everyone walks away with a tee shirt at least, and the poker run winner normally gets over 500.00 worth of stuff they can use. Again thanks to DDM, Solo Performance and Windrestrictor.
 
#38 ·
A couple of quotes from the Solstice Forum that should illustrate that NASSOA died from lack of interest rather than lack of funding:

NASSOA Membership/Kappa Owners

It is with great sadness that the NASSOA council announces the sunset of the NASSOA organization. Effectively immediately, membership solicitation will no longer be accepted. Additionally, no further action will be taken on council membership nominations nor solicitations for hosting the 2011 NASSM.

The council has voted and taken this difficult step due to a steady decline in new and renewal memberships as well as the demise of both the Pontiac and Saturn brands causing the loss of our national brand managers at GM. Additional Association funds will be offered to the 2010 Canton NASSM committee for their use and any remaining funds will be donated to the American Red Cross in support of the Haiti Earthquake relief effort.

The original council members who served in various positions, most of whom remain today, wish to thank all those kappa owners who supported NASSOA over the past 3 years. We all believed in the original "Pontiac Excitement" the Solstice brought followed up by its Sky counterpart. The initial enthusiasm was overwhelming as exhibited by the grassroots movement which resulted in the first NASSM in Kansas City in June 2006. It was even more impressive to see all the regional clubs develop as well as the special meets begin to organize such as Tail of the Dragon in North Carolina and Twisting to The River in Ohio. The NASSM carried on through Nashville, Las Vegas, Denver and leading into this year at Canton.

However, the economy and other financial difficulties have impacted us all. Many of the regional clubs have grown smaller with fewer renewals and members as well. The NASSM participation has grown, but not to the level anticipated, and with the demise of both car brands, the original enthusiasm has begun to dissipate. The council sincerely hopes the grassroots movement which enabled NASSOA to begin, will carry on and continue the NASSM tradition in 2011.

Respectively submitted,

Carl
Acting Chair
NASSOA Council
as a current council member who voted to sunset this organization....most dont know the situation of the organization......yes the organization can remain in name only if the membership votes to maintain it....with that said.....when the call for new officers went out over a year ago....only one nomination was sent in, when the call for nominations went out to host the next national event after Canton...agaid silence........seems many people want to keep the organization..but yet noone wants to step up to do the work that is needed to keep it going (membership, accounting, tax filing, vendor solicitation, website maintenance, banking, and much more)......all of us have been working the organization for over three years now....and as Mel stated..worked our butts off to make this happen....and remember....we are all volunteers here...and this isnt our full time job.......but yet we have devoted countless hours to make it ....
also.....many times the organization was defamed by some and more that I dont feel needs to be rehashed here........this organization was deeply linked to corporate GM and marketing brand managers who we dealt with frequently.......all that is gone......we had repeatedly asked for suggestions for how to make it better....and got nothing in return..but yet....now....it seems everyone has an opinion......yes some local clubs may have grown...but our outlook shows many have simply reached a plateau......and the renewals significantly down.......as was mentioned.....a local organization can do more for its immediate membership...than a not for profit national organization....... I could go on...but for those who vote NO to sunset the organization.....what are you prepared to do to keep it afloat is my question to you?
 
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