[Delnari]

If you have been following the Solstice production and delivery over on the solsticeforum.com site you see a disturbing trend. There are more orders and buyers than GM can produced before the end of year. I believe the last number I have seen was there are over 17,000 orders for the Solstice! There are a lot issues surrounding this, slow startup, initial production issues, redo, etc. This should be expected with the launch of a new car. The new Pontiac Solstice is currently the cheapest hand-built car in America! What was not expected was the amount initial interest and buyers willing to order site unseen. This is causing a lot anxiety with all these potential new owners, some are abandoning ship and buying foreign sports cars (very few though). Most are waiting it out, and hoping GM can play catch up with the number of orders before years end.

Now the problem for us potential Saturn Sky owners, with all the production delays and delivery delays being experienced by Pontiac, some potential Solstice buyers are figuring out that their new Solstice just may not arrive before the first Sky cars do. My guess, and it's only a guess, is some of these buyers were going for the Solstice because the Sky was to be built a year later. Well, that year later is over halfway here and these buyers are still without even a factory received order. This may lead to huge initial buyer interest for the Sky, not a bad thing for GM, but could be bad for those of us waiting to get on a dealer waitlist to order the Sky. I strongly recommend if you haven't been put in the top five of a dealership pre-order list to start searching for one to get on. You can buy your Saturn from any dealer in the country, and some will even allow you to take delivery at a dealership near you.

Second problem starting to occur, dealers at Pontiac are now off the hook to sell the Solstice at MSRP, as suggested by GM for the first 1000 cars. I have been reading that some dealerships will be charging from $3,000-$5,000 over sticker on a regular order. The supply and demand problem is the reason for this jump in price, and more and more dealer's see others doing it and getting them sold they will hop on the bandwagon and sell over sticker. Remember, dealerships are not own by GM and they can resell the product at any price they wish. GM is really powerless to stop this, and in some ways makes their product look better when dealer can sell over sticker. GM has already increased the price on a few options on the car, and will probably increase the initial price by the beginning of 2006.

What this means to us. We will be facing a larger influx of Sky buyers than expected. The price GM has originally set for the vehicle may rise do to the demand. And the worse situation, the Saturn philosophy of no haggle selling may get the dreaded "Value Added" cost adjusted to Sky.

 

[Preston]

If you have been following the Solstice production and delivery over on the solsticeforum.com site you see a disturbing trend. There are more orders and buyers than GM can produced before the end of year. I believe the last number I have seen was there are over 17,000 orders for the Solstice! There are a lot issues surrounding this, slow startup, initial production issues, redo, etc. This should be expected with the launch of a new car. The new Pontiac Solstice is currently the cheapest hand-built car in America! What was not expected was the amount initial interest and buyers willing to order site unseen. This is causing a lot anxiety with all these potential new owners, some are abandoning ship and buying foreign sports cars (very few though). Most are waiting it out, and hoping GM can play catch up with the number of orders before years end.

Now the problem for us potential Saturn Sky owners, with all the production delays and delivery delays being experienced by Pontiac, some potential Solstice buyers are figuring out that their new Solstice just may not arrive before the first Sky cars do. My guess, and it's only a guess, is some of these buyers were going for the Solstice because the Sky was to be built a year later. Well, that year later is over halfway here and these buyers are still without even a factory received order. This may lead to huge initial buyer interest for the Sky, not a bad thing for GM, but could be bad for those of us waiting to get on a dealer waitlist to order the Sky. I strongly recommend if you haven't been put in the top five of a dealership pre-order list to start searching for one to get on. You can buy your Saturn from any dealer in the country, and some will even allow you to take delivery at a dealership near you.

Second problem starting to occur, dealers at Pontiac are now off the hook to sell the Solstice at MSRP, as suggested by GM for the first 1000 cars. I have been reading that some dealerships will be charging from $3,000-$5,000 over sticker on a regular order. The supply and demand problem is the reason for this jump in price, and more and more dealer's see others doing it and getting them sold they will hop on the bandwagon and sell over sticker. Remember, dealerships are not own by GM and they can resell the product at any price they wish. GM is really powerless to stop this, and in some ways makes their product look better when dealer can sell over sticker. GM has already increased the price on a few options on the car, and will probably increase the initial price by the beginning of 2006.

What this means to us. We will be facing a larger influx of Sky buyers than expected. The price GM has originally set for the vehicle may rise do to the demand. And the worse situation, the Saturn philosophy of no haggle selling may get the dreaded "Value Added" cost adjusted to Sky.

Your analysis is very astute. One other factor not mentioned very often, if at all, on the other site is the situation regarding dealerships that are not participating in the GM allocation program. The Pontiac dealer in my city is one of these. In talking with them their attitude is very blase about the whole thing. They have stated that their agreement with GM is that they get a vehicle. When they sell that one, they get another -- the same agreement they have with respect to the 'vette. Given that they also sell Mercs, BMWs, Nissans, Hondas, Porsches, this attitude caused me some time ago to concentrate on the Sky and the Saturn dealership. I have no idea how many Pontiac dealers are not participating in the allocation program, but if the number is sizeable, say 10%, this is a situation that GM must address in some way. Bottom line, of course, is that GM projects building 30,000 of these cars per year. That means there will be a car available for each buyer. It just might not be there WHEN you want it to be. With regard to pricing, well, we all know where the road paved with good intentions leads. The market place will determine pricing. All we can do is register our resistance to pricing we don't agree with :banghead:

 

[Sky4christ]

sky redline

Well if the redline is much over the 30 grand I think I can afford. I may have to move down to the regular sky

 

[LS2 MN6]

I think the Redline Base will be 27 or 28. Loaded it might push 31.

I really don't care, I am buying it as it's the coolest car I can afford.

 

[mhw745]

Second problem starting to occur, dealers at Pontiac are now off the hook to sell the Solstice at MSRP, as suggested by GM for the first 1000 cars. I have been reading that some dealerships will be charging from $3,000-$5,000 over sticker on a regular order. The supply and demand problem is the reason for this jump in price, and more and more dealer's see others doing it and getting them sold they will hop on the bandwagon and sell over sticker. Remember, dealerships are not own by GM and they can resell the product at any price they wish. GM is really powerless to stop this, and in some ways makes their product look better when dealer can sell over sticker. GM has already increased the price on a few options on the car, and will probably increase the initial price by the beginning of 2006.

What this means to us. We will be facing a larger influx of Sky buyers than expected. The price GM has originally set for the vehicle may rise do to the demand. And the worse situation, the Saturn philosophy of no haggle selling may get the dreaded "Value Added" cost adjusted to Sky.

Which is why I am keeping my options open to the Miata, my fallback position. Two issues will decide it, price and availability. I am not getting any younger and so I won't wait much beyond May, 2006 to get a Sky and at the 25K-26K price I expected.

 

[Babak]

Greetings all,
First, a hello to you all.
I think that once these things start moving some dealers will start horsetrading for it. I wouldn't be surprised if these are the dealers that endup charging above list first. Unfrotunately, this is something that's reality of free market. The first litmus test is going to be the waitlist:
--Are the dealers going to honor them when somebody shows up and is willing to pay over MSRP?
--Are the dealers willing to give waitlisters a contract with their spot on the list and "not above MSRP" on it?
--What if a person falls off the waitlist...Does everybody move up one or are they going to offer it at a premium to somebody off the street?

How about the "no haggle"? That has been something that Saturn has made a point about since it's inception. The Pontiac dealers are under no obligation to do so with the Solstice, however, Saturn's corporate policey and point of every advert campaign and every visit I've had to every Saturn dealer. I seriously doubt that that Saturn Corporate would sit by idly and let it's dealers tarnish it's reputation.
Luckily there are other dealers and options. As customers our only power is not giving them our business. It boils down to "can you wait until the pent up demand has been met?" I for one think I can...It would be good to let them iron out any bugs their first year out.

 

[brentil]

Welcome, and very good points Babak.

 

[SkyMan 08]

Greetings all,
First, a hello to you all.
I think that once these things start moving some dealers will start horsetrading for it. I wouldn't be surprised if these are the dealers that endup charging above list first. Unfrotunately, this is something that's reality of free market. The first litmus test is going to be the waitlist:
--Are the dealers going to honor them when somebody shows up and is willing to pay over MSRP?
--Are the dealers willing to give waitlisters a contract with their spot on the list and "not above MSRP" on it?
--What if a person falls off the waitlist...Does everybody move up one or are they going to offer it at a premium to somebody off the street?

How about the "no haggle"? That has been something that Saturn has made a point about since it's inception. The Pontiac dealers are under no obligation to do so with the Solstice, however, Saturn's corporate policey and point of every advert campaign and every visit I've had to every Saturn dealer. I seriously doubt that that Saturn Corporate would sit by idly and let it's dealers tarnish it's reputation.
Luckily there are other dealers and options. As customers our only power is not giving them our business. It boils down to "can you wait until the pent up demand has been met?" I for one think I can...It would be good to let them iron out any bugs their first year out.

I already have a written contract with my dealer signed by the sales manager that I will get mine at MSRP or less....
Saturn dealers have always been honest with me, and I have checked at a couple and get the same deal at any I go to, so I will stick with my local dealer, and hopfully I will get mine first as I am first on the list. I was second but moved up to first when the guy in front of me bought a ION Redline and dropped his request for a Sky...
Even though Saturn has the "No Haggle" pricing, if you look on the Saturn website under the Frequently asked questions, look at the one about pricing, and it says that prices are set by the individual dealer... so they could sell for more or less than MSRP and not get into trouble with Saturn... I am sure that the Corporate offices will discourage price gouging...

 

[kingarthur]

Pricing over list is just one more reason I'd avoid the first year model. As an
engineer, I can guarantee you that the first year will have far and away the largest number of bugs. You pay too much for a first year car, any first year car (and especially a "hot item" as was the case for the first twin turbo
Vette) and not just in price, usually. Sit back and relax - just look at the sales figures for the Miata - they hit 71K (worldwide, 40K in North America) in 1990, and since 2000 have been 16K,18K,14K,12K and 9356 (North America). Prices have softened a whole lot during those years. In contrast, the Vette has been very consistent over the past six years - 33K,33K,35K,34K,35K,34K.

 

[azote]

woo

well i been looking at cars and this forum lately and i decided to wait till the sky comes out...
but your analysis is making me think more about it.....

for those looking at the perfect convertible at bellow $30.000 check this baby out the Eos (goddess of sunrise - Eos is also the mother of the winds)
i wish i could get that one insted.. but hey ... now i like the sky.. hope we can all get it at a right price...

 

[LS2 MN6]

The joys of the employee discount and living in the Detroit area... We don't have markup, and when we do it's small becasue some dealer is always looking to undercut another one for buisness.

 

[brentil]

Actually I'd say 98% of the people at the Solstice forum got their car for MSRP too. Some even got it below. Also seeing as how the Sky is built off the Solstice, then a lot of the bugs will have also been worked out by then too hopefully.

 

[Rick Tinley Park]

Interesting comment in a commercial

In the Pontiac commercial showing their new reases - the Solstice shot has a disclaimer that says: Available in limited quantities in fall of 2006

I'd say they are planing on making their pre-orders good before alliowing "regular" sales.

 

[wannasky]

Talked to the Sales Mgr.

One of my concerns along with many others is inflated pricing. I stoped by the dealer tonight and had a lengthly talk with my salesperson and the sales manager. According to the manager, as of this time there is no intention to do the "Market Adjustment" that some Pontiac dealers did with the Soltice. As far as "Employee Pricing", he says if GM offers it, they will also make it available. He did say that he can`t gaurantee this but, that is his intention unless he`s told by the owner otherwise. I didn`t just fall off the turnup truck but, he seemed sincere, and I don`t think he has anymore info that might dispute this right now. He did say that he`s heard that they`re supposed to get 25 vehicles for the first year. With me being #4 with my deposit, that puts me in a drivers seat.

 

[kingarthur]

Hot cars are always sold for more than MSRP, at least that's been my observation. The twin turbo Vette for example, went for as much as 10K over list in No VA years ago. My aunt's '89 Totota Corolla ( a plain Jane little
car) went for 2K over list when new, because of the gas crisis at the
time.

 

[reedred]

Hot cars are always sold for more than MSRP, at least that's been my observation. The twin turbo Vette for example, went for as much as 10K over list in No VA years ago. My aunt's '89 Totota Corolla ( a plain Jane little
car) went for 2K over list when new, because of the gas crisis at the
time.

There was a gas crisis that severe in 1988/89?

 

[Babak]

"Employee pricing"
How many think that this years 'employee pricing' will cut into next years sales? Many people have bought cars this year to take advantage of that, many others have bought/upgraded houses in the last couple of years due to low interest rates. Combine the two...are we looking at a fairly dry year for US brand car makers/dealers? If so, with a lean year ahead are we looking at hungrier dealers and markups?
Personally I doubt it, I think that these cars are going to sell well, however, they will have to compete in a segment that is already well populated. Let's face it, most of us are car people and gear heads. How many would pay a 30K price tag when they could get a barely used S2K or Boxster for that? Then roll it over and buy a second/third production year car? I think that the above MSRP crowd (if any at all) is going to be short lived and a few months after intro there will be cars on the lot waiting for homes.

 

[Lost Sol]

Hot cars are always sold for more than MSRP, at least that's been my observation. The twin turbo Vette for example, went for as much as 10K over list in No VA years ago. My aunt's '89 Totota Corolla ( a plain Jane little
car) went for 2K over list when new, because of the gas crisis at the
time.

I was 18 in 1989 and had little money, but never thought there was a gas crisis. I do remember the tough times my family had in the late 70's and early 80's (with gas and the interest rates).

 

[wannasky]

I tend to agree that 2006 will be a difficult year for US car companies. With gas prices, UAW Contracts, and Employee Pricing for everyone this year, sales could very well be slow. SUV and full size truck sales are already being affected by gas prices, and with many additional people purchasing vehicles using "Employee Pricing", I believe that will impact 06 sales. With things already tight, new UAW contracts will make it more challenging. I know that GM has some very nice product waiting to come down the tubes but, too many factors weigh against the auto manufacturers this coming year. I`m sure the Sky and Solstice will do extremely well but, with the lower production numbers, it won`t be enough to carry them. I really hope that I`m wrong but...

 

[kingarthur]

GM has given indications that it likes the side effects of Employee, no negotiating pricing and plans to keep it after the Employees Discount
program is over. It might be notes that the Employee Discount prices
were not much lower than the final pricing (including rebates, etc.)before the program began : this was pointed out by auto analysts.