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Took a trip to Saturn of Westbrook Park, in Springfield PA. Its a bit of a ride for me, but I heard they were putting in pre-orders and like many here, thought I would hedge my bets for getting a car by having deposits at multiple dealers.

First... They have TWO skys on display. A silver one out front, and a beautiful redone inside. Salesperson says the one outside is for sale... .customer cancel cause of wrong transmission (yeahh... right).
Car was marked up $4500 over MSRP. $4000 of it was for special chrome wheels!!! Hah!!! While I am waiting for a Redline and really didnt want a base sky, I played along for sec and said, well... put the factory rims back on and I'll take it at MSRP. No deal.

Ordering a car tho, comes straight from factory, he says... without thier add-ons.

Well I took the ride to the dealer... might as well see what the dealy-yo is.

We go inside and I have to explain THREE times I wanted a Redline. The Turbo. Salesperson seemed like he never heard of the car. We talk deposits and I say I need it to say its refundable.. he says "I'm not so sure" and I reply "Come on.. you could take 100 deposits for this car and never deliver... keeping 50,000 cash" He goes to talk to manager. Even after "Let me talk to my manager" he still came back confused... "OOOHhhh you want the Redline. The Turbo" . Me, "YES, that's what I said since I walked in the door". Salesperson replies with "Oh, That's a $2500 deposit".

Hmmm. I instantly reply "I dont feel good about the $4000 markup on the Sky out front, against Saturn policy. Seems shady. I don't feel good about how you were unclear with the refundable deposit. So I dont feel good about handing over $2500 deposit to you."

I got up, and immediately walked out. No one bothered to chase after me. I guess they are really confident in how this car will sell.

I dont have a prob with $2500 deposit. I understand that the dealers may want to avoid people playing roulette with thier deposits, tossing $500 down at many dealers and potentially wasting dealer time.... but I need to feel good about the transaction, and maybe toss in some other guarantees, something like "Well, you are #3 on the list, and we gurantee not to put any cars, for customer or dealer inventory, ahead of yours"

$2500 down while $4000 markup car on lot? What if idiot customers are out there happy to pay the $4000 upcharge? I think my car would keep getting pushed back in the list so that they can continue to pull in an extra $4000 by putting on lot with ridiculously priced rims. All this while I have $2500 tied up in thier bank?

No thanks. Cya :nono:

I've never owned a saturn, but i thought thier key mission statement was to take away buyer anxiety.

I have $500 down with another dealer. Very honest. Have been there twice and have nothing but "Warm fuzzy feelings" , so I'll stick it out with them. :)

(I have no prob putting Saturn of Westbrook Park, Springfield Pa, in this post, as you can walk in thier right now and confirm these prices on the car sticker, and the $2500 down for Redline requirement)
 

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It's amazing all the stories about Saturn Dealers going to the dark side. I guess it's true that a little power does corrupt.:eek:

I've had 4 other Saturns, and never have had this type of experience. I agree with your action. Let them know that it is unacceptable and walk away.:nono:

The only way you can correct this type of behavior is to hurt them in the wallet. Take your business elsewhere.
 

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When I was making calls shopping for a Dealer before the Sky came out. I would always ask "Are you committed to selling the car at MSRP."

The only answer I would accept is YES. Any other answer meant NO they were not committed to selling at MSRP. This cut through all the vauge car salesperson Double Speak. They would try to say they were not sure they are still waiting, yada yada. I would reply I guess you are not committed, thanked them and hung-up.
 

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Ahnuld said:
I've never owned a saturn, but i thought thier key mission statement was to take away buyer anxiety.
That seems to have become history for many Saturn dealers when faced for the first time with a car this desirable, in-demand, and in short-supply. Add that to all the lean years Saturn dealers have probably had to endure, the prospect of GM maybe not guaranteed to be around forever, and you can see the dam break as far as the old Saturn philosphy.

The new motto "Like always. Like never before" when applied to many of their dealers should have been "Like the rest now. Get used to it" :brentil:
 

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Ahnuld said:
Took a trip to Saturn of Westbrook Park, in Springfield PA. Its a bit of a ride for me, but I heard they were putting in pre-orders and like many here, thought I would hedge my bets for getting a car by having deposits at multiple dealers.

First... They have TWO Sky's on display. A silver one out front, and a beautiful redone inside. Salesperson says the one outside is for sale... .customer cancel cause of wrong transmission (yeahh... right).
Car was marked up $4500 over MSRP. $4000 of it was for special chrome wheels!!! Hah!!! While I am waiting for a Redline and really didnt want a base sky, I played along for sec and said, well... put the factory rims back on and I'll take it at MSRP. No deal.

Ordering a car tho, comes straight from factory, he says... without thier add-ons.

Well I took the ride to the dealer... might as well see what the dealy-yo is.

We go inside and I have to explain THREE times I wanted a Redline. The Turbo. Salesperson seemed like he never heard of the car. We talk deposits and I say I need it to say its refundable.. he says "I'm not so sure" and I reply "Come on.. you could take 100 deposits for this car and never deliver... keeping 50,000 cash" He goes to talk to manager. Even after "Let me talk to my manager" he still came back confused... "OOOHhhh you want the Redline. The Turbo" . Me, "YES, that's what I said since I walked in the door". Salesperson replies with "Oh, That's a $2500 deposit".

Hmmm. I instantly reply "I dont feel good about the $4000 markup on the Sky out front, against Saturn policy. Seems shady. I don't feel good about how you were unclear with the refundable deposit. So I dont feel good about handing over $2500 deposit to you."

I got up, and immediately walked out. No one bothered to chase after me. I guess they are really confident in how this car will sell.

I dont have a prob with $2500 deposit. I understand that the dealers may want to avoid people playing roulette with thier deposits, tossing $500 down at many dealers and potentially wasting dealer time.... but I need to feel good about the transaction, and maybe toss in some other guarantees, something like "Well, you are #3 on the list, and we gurantee not to put any cars, for customer or dealer inventory, ahead of yours"

$2500 down while $4000 markup car on lot? What if idiot customers are out there happy to pay the $4000 upcharge? I think my car would keep getting pushed back in the list so that they can continue to pull in an extra $4000 by putting on lot with ridiculously priced rims. All this while I have $2500 tied up in thier bank?

No thanks. Cya :nono:

I've never owned a saturn, but i thought thier key mission statement was to take away buyer anxiety.

I have $500 down with another dealer. Very honest. Have been there twice and have nothing but "Warm fuzzy feelings" , so I'll stick it out with them. :)

(I have no prob putting Saturn of Westbrook Park, Springfield Pa, in this post, as you can walk in thier right now and confirm these prices on the car sticker, and the $2500 down for Redline requirement)
They offered me that Graphite Sky at MSRP BEFORE the wheels where put on. In fact, they called three times. I declined. I ordered the car from a different dealer and although it was close in options to my ordered one, it was not what I wanted. The third time they called was really crazy. This time, they offered the Sky to me - are you ready - for $4500 more than the first two offers. They said they put these "really good looking wheels on it" and I should check it out. Naturally, I just laughed. The logic here completely escapes me. They thought that I would rather pay $4500 more for the same car that was offered to me for MSRP just two hours before. I'm still shaking my head in disbelief three days later. Just what kind of morons are they used to dealing with? I'm happy to wait for mine in the fall. I don't have the time or the patience for dealers like this. As far as the deposit goes, I think $2500 is completely unreasonable. I would go to the next dealer before I would give up that kind of money. I had trouble with $1000. I did have a Solstice on order and that dealer only wanted a reasonable $100.00 deposit. I don't like dealerships or going to them. In fact, I trust none of them. And, I'd rather service my own cars even if they're under warranty. Service departments are just as bad.
 

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Unfortunately... MANY dealerships are charging OVER MSRP.... and others hear about it and probably think... WHY NOT........ if they can do it...... we can.... UGH.... that is just not right... IN MY OPINION.....SkyBaby-07
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Frank said:
They thought that I would rather pay $4500 more for the same car that was offered to me for MSRP just two hours before. I'm still shaking my head in disbelief three days later. Just what kind of morons are they used to dealing with?
That is so ridiculous, its funny! Classic!! :lol:
:jester: What a bunch of jokers!! :jester:

If you're lucky, they'll add some REALLY nice seat covers to the car, and offer it to you for $8000 over MSRP!!!
 

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I placed an order with Saturn of Modesto. They asked $1500 as a deposit and placed me as #2 on their list. "8 - 12 Weeks roughly" is the delivery. It imaged on the 23rd and I take this all with a grain of salt.
The car is going to be outfitted with "Mandatory windscreen installation and Mandatory 18" Chrome wheels" the dealer even told me he is marking up the price $2500 by doing this. At the very elast I can say he was upfront about what he was doing and why: To make money and pay for overhead. Well, I can't argue with his being upfront, I'd rather they come clean and just say it than lie through their teeth.
If he'd done that I'd have taken a jaunt somewhere else. The disturbing piece of the puzzle is that I have always heard suce good things about Saturn dealerships and my first experience with them will more than likely be my last unless they prove me wrong with their service. They'll ahve to show a lot of good will in the future to keep me as a customer. I don't believe this is what corporate had in mind.
 

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My dealer told me up front that they required a 10% deposit. At the same time, I was given, in writing, a buyer's order showing the vehicle, options and price to be paid. The order also states that the deposit is fully refundable until the car is actually ordered from the manufacturer. Sounds fair even though I did not want to part with the $2700 deposit.
 

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All of these feel-good stories just make ordering day seem like it will be sooo much fun...
You don't understand human nature. Generally people write and complain only when they're unhappy and have something to gripe about. 10,000 people
could go out and all but 5 have a good experience. But three of those five
would complain and everyone mistakenly concludes that all dealers are adding markups. Funny how when dealers add markups it's terrible, but when owners do, as many have done on EBAY, well, that's just supply and demand and is their business. Perhaps you should realize that if a Saturn dealer sells you a Sky at list price, he's doing you a favor, whether you think so or not. And no dealer will ever make up what he lost thru future sales or good customer relations. When a USED car is going $4000 over list, you should buy the dealer and salesmen dinners for a month in appreciation if they're crazy enough to give it
to you for list.
 

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Perception can be so devious

GMguy said:
You don't understand human nature. Generally people write and complain only when they're unhappy and have something to gripe about. 10,000 people
could go out and all but 5 have a good experience. But three of those five
would complain and everyone mistakenly concludes that all dealers are adding markups. Funny how when dealers add markups it's terrible, but when owners do, as many have done on EBAY, well, that's just supply and demand and is their business. Perhaps you should realize that if a Saturn dealer sells you a Sky at list price, he's doing you a favor, whether you think so or not. And no dealer will ever make up what he lost thru future sales or good customer relations. When a USED car is going $4000 over list, you should buy the dealer and salesmen dinners for a month in appreciation if they're crazy enough to give it
to you for list.
I think perhaps the real problem is that we have no way of knowing how much actual profit the dealer is already making selling at MSRP. Is the dealer invoiced only $20,000 for a car that has a $24,000 MSRP? or is it more like $23,000 invoice for a $24,000 MSRP? If the dealer is only making 4% gross profit then some markup is not so evil as if the gross profit is 20% and the dealer wants to add another 20% profit on top of that.

So the real problem is that we just don't know, so some will assume the worst. And who among us would not prefer to buy a Sky with a sticker of $28,000 for only $20,000?
 

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SKYtime said:
My dealer told me up front that they required a 10% deposit. At the same time, I was given, in writing, a buyer's order showing the vehicle, options and price to be paid. The order also states that the deposit is fully refundable until the car is actually ordered from the manufacturer. Sounds fair even though I did not want to part with the $2700 deposit.

The car you ordered is what I have in the standard SKY.
You will like the result!!!:cheers:
 

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You can find out invoice price versus MSRP online. The variable is that dealers obtain additional kickbacks so to speak from the manufacturer based upon other factors such as volume, etc. There are a lot of other bonuses throughout the year.
 

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Lil GTO said:
I think perhaps the real problem is that we have no way of knowing how much actual profit the dealer is already making selling at MSRP. Is the dealer invoiced only $20,000 for a car that has a $24,000 MSRP? or is it more like $23,000 invoice for a $24,000 MSRP? If the dealer is only making 4% gross profit then some markup is not so evil as if the gross profit is 20% and the dealer wants to add another 20% profit on top of that.

So the real problem is that we just don't know, so some will assume the worst. And who among us would not prefer to buy a Sky with a sticker of $28,000 for only $20,000?
Here you go, MSRP vs. Invoice. All you have to do is go to Edmonds.This is before the recent increase.

First number is MSRP
Second number is invoice
Third number is what people are paying which is same as invoice here.

Don't forget though, dealer have a tissue price which is around 4% lower I believe than invoice. They get a check back at the end of the year is how I think they work it but not sure.( I call it a kick back on the volume of cars they sell ) Any dealer can chime in about tissue.


National Base Price (excludes destination charge)
A note about advertising fees $23,115 $21,320

Optional Equipment $4,275 $3,932 $4,275
VK3 Front License Plate Bracket N/A N/A N/A
QF8 18" Polished Aluminum Wheels N/A N/A N/A
US9 AM/FM Radio w/in-dash 6-disc CD Changer and MP3 $890 $819 $890
MX0 Automatic Transmission $850 $782 $850
PD5 18" Chrome-Plated Aluminum Wheels $795 $731 $795
PCH Premium Trim Package $750 $690 $750
U2K XM Satellite Radio $325 $299 $325
D52 Rear Decklid Spoiler $275 $253 $275
34U Sunburst Yellow Paint $195 $179 $195
G80 Limited Slip Differential $195 $179 $195
NE1 Northeast Emissions $0 $0 $0
YF5 California Emissions $0 $0 $0
NB8 Emissions Override $0 $0 $0
NC7 Emissions Override $0 $0 $0
FE9 Federal Emissions $0 $0 $0
Color Adjustment - - $0
Sunburst Yellow
Destination Charge $575 $575 $575
Total with Options $27,965 $25,827 $27,965
 

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GMguy said:
Funny how when dealers add markups it's terrible, but when owners do, as many have done on EBAY, well, that's just supply and demand and is their business.
The difference here is that the owners don't have 10 years of history of advertising "no haggle pricing" and an edict from saturn corporate stating that price gouging will not be tolerated. :rolleyes:

Perhaps you should realize that if a Saturn dealer sells you a Sky at list price, he's doing you a favor, whether you think so or not.
No, he isn't, he's going against the corporate policy and taking advantage of positive buzz to pad his pockets. There are no "favors" in a capatilistic economy, for every dealer asking 5k markup on the coasts there's a low traffic dealer in the midwest looking to sell at MSRP and happy to ship the car to a customer. Look at all the complaining and lost sales on this board alone due to markups. I'll guarantee you that a dealer selling at msrp will easily generate the additional sales (and future customer loyalty) needed to match the profit of the (fewer) marked up sales by his competitor. It happened with the 05 mustang, it's happening now with the prius, and it'll happen (now or later) with the sky.
 

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Hey ahnuld, STOP, THINK, WAIT, DON'T PANIC. tHE STORIES ABOUT sKY BUYERS ARE WORSE THAN THE STORIES ABOUT LOUSEY DEALERS.
IT'S YOU PEOPLE WHO ARE KEEPING THESE GREEDY SLIMEBALLS IN BUSINESS. :willy:

DON'T FEED THEM AND THEY WILL DRY UP AND BLOW AWAY.:banghead: So you have to wait a couple of months more, so what. It is worth it in the long run. Money doesn't grow on trees where I live, so don't waste it.
 
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