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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
Ok here is a question
Why would it be that I’ve been driving the car every day as a daily driver since the summer let’s just say end of August and only now when the temperatures got cooler outside and I switched it to the heat do I get these overheating issues just seems weird that the thermostat all of a sudden would coincidentally just go bad I’m thinking it could be the check valves but that also leaves me with another question. How could after all that time Air be introduced into the system? Didn’t give a problem all summer with higher ambient temperatures and now it’s causing a problem when it’s cold outside. Today it was 64 degrees here on Long Island and the temperatures were perfect for theCar. At the light they went from 198 down to 196 Idling and waiting for the light to turn.

The thermostat sticking I can kind of understand because every part has a lifespan but the introduction of air into the system all of a sudden just because the weather change to get colder I just don’t understand that part. I’ve never opened the coolant system
 

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My car went all Fall with no issues but when it got really cold I got the overheating. The factory guys tried the thermostat and it wasn't it. I came up with the TSB, they approved doing that and it cured it completely. Why? Who knows?
 

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Ok here is a question
Why would it be that I’ve been driving the car every day as a daily driver since the summer let’s just say end of August and only now when the temperatures got cooler outside and I switched it to the heat do I get these overheating issues just seems weird that the thermostat all of a sudden would coincidentally just go bad I’m thinking it could be the check valves but that also leaves me with another question. How could after all that time Air be introduced into the system? Didn’t give a problem all summer with higher ambient temperatures and now it’s causing a problem when it’s cold outside. Today it was 64 degrees here on Long Island and the temperatures were perfect for theCar. At the light they went from 198 down to 196 Idling and waiting for the light to turn.

The thermostat sticking I can kind of understand because every part has a lifespan but the introduction of air into the system all of a sudden just because the weather change to get colder I just don’t understand that part. I’ve never opened the coolant system
You have a valid question, unfortunately the kappa cooling system has some flaws as in the heater core being higher than the over flow tank. Not sure if any other cars have this design but I doubt it, the kappa is a parts bin car so some things aren't perfect.
 

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There are quite a few cars with heater cores located fairly high. The MGs, for instance, have rad caps down on the radiator while the heater sits on a shelf in front of the firewall, above engine level. They never have any issues with air locks.

For whatever reason the one way valves solve the problem on the Kappas and probably should have been standardized immediately once they had figured it out. I have never seen any explanation for the absurd price book listing for the valves ($500 US) but that might have affected their decision. OTOH, adding the other horn the cars should have had would have added to safety and would only have cost them $4-5 per car and they didn't do that, even though the brackets for the were already present.
 

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The valves were unnecessary when the cars were new and seemed to work ok without them until repair work was done.
Not in my case. There had been no work done on my car which was only a few months old, when it overheated and needed the valves.
 

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Well, you vacuum fill rather than bleed. With a good vacuum fill you don't need the check valves, but you can put them in if you like. I think the TSB called for them so a subsequent improper fluid change would eventually purge excess air on its own. Since, they were inexpensive so I put them in my RL and my ex's NA Sky. It gave me the idea to add a cylindrical style check valve on my 03 Vue's expansion tube to the tank. As the coolant cools it can draw air back through that tube and into the radiator.

Did your car run hot if you didn't use the heat and just froze yourself? If so, I'd guess that everything is normal. The heater core return line dumps the cooled coolant right onto the copper pellet part of the thermostat. That makes the thermostat tend to want to close some, and you get higher engine temp readings. I've never seen it move up more than 10F so 30F seems like a lot. Still, that's definitely a design aspect to this motor.
 

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Well, you vacuum fill rather than bleed. With a good vacuum fill you don't need the check valves, but you can put them in if you like.
That was not my experience. The dealership mechanics did exactly what you suggest , twice and both failed to cure the problem. The valves cured it immediately.
 

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That was not my experience. The dealership mechanics did exactly what you suggest , twice and both failed to cure the problem. The valves cured it immediately.
It is strange how different cars react differently to what is reported to be the same procedure. Assuming that the procedures are actually being done correctly it makes me wonder if a hose or connection seal is imperfect enough on some vehicles to allow ingestion of air when the system cools.
 

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I agree - you have to wonder. The shop I took it to were very certain that the special filling rig they had would do the trick and were amazed when it didn't. Presumably they had cured several other similar problems with that rig.

My car was brand new at the time and they went over the whole system to make sure the clamps were appropriately tightened. I'm glad this was all on warranty and not on my nickel!

The car has had periodic coolant changes since with never any hint of overheating again, so it would seem to be the valves that fixed it. I know (because I was following all info at the time) that others did have a similar issue cured by proper filling or by manual burping, and some ended up having to get the valves.

Now that the valves are so cheap, it seems to be a quick and easy thing to try if proper filling and burping fails to solve the issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
Ok here’s a question

I noticed the car is overheating and I don’t have Any heat when I turn on the heater. Could that be the thermostat? Or is it definitely the valves that’s causing this due to the no heat condition for the interior heating

And I if I install the valves and do not believe the system will it just played automatically then? Do I have to vacuum fill it after I put the valves in?
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 · (Edited)
Right now I have heat again on and off and I’m up to 242

went to 248 and then 250 and temp light came on so o **** the car down and I am sitting on the side of the road waiting for it to cool down.
Was almost home too

the hose going to the overflow tank is cold as ice and the hoses going to the rad are hot as hell
 

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Ok here’s a question

I noticed the car is overheating and I don’t have Any heat when I turn on the heater. Could that be the thermostat? Or is it definitely the valves that’s causing this due to the no heat condition for the interior heating

And I if I install the valves and do not believe the system will it just played automatically then? Do I have to vacuum fill it after I put the valves in?
Start by purging the cooling system, warn it up and let it cool down and purge again, if that doesn't work get the valves and purge maybe 3x again, if that doesn't work get a thermostat and purge again.
You're asking questions but not doing anything.

 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
Start by purging the cooling system, warn it up and let it cool down and purge again, if that doesn't work get the valves and purge maybe 3x again, if that doesn't work get a thermostat and purge again.
You're asking questions but not doing anything.

Thanks - I am not doing anything because I haven’t had a chance to work on the car yet - I work full time and am using the car daily to commute. I also have t received the valves I’ve ordered yet. I do not have the vacuum bleed equipment to get the air out and have to wait until
Next weekend to have access to it. I am just trying to see which I should do first , the tstat or the valves. I am jot sure how to purge the system of air without the equipment to do so.
I apologize for the delay in action here but I am trying to get as much info as possible before the parts arrive
 

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Watch the video, you just need to pressuring the coolant tank somehow, any kind of hand pump will work if you don't have a compressor.
Start with that, then the valves, then the tstat.
 

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Had some what I thought were higher than normal temps when I first got mine. Had the cooling system flushed and at that time a non AC Delco thermostat was installed. That was before I read that these cars are thermostat brand sensitive. Car still seemed to act up. It wasn’t until the thermostat was replaced with an AC Delco, the check valves were installed and the system was a refilled by having the coolant vacuum pulled through that the problem was finally solved.
I tried the compressed air/vice grips on the lines step by step 5 times before having the coolant pulled through, and still had erratic temps. Don’t know where I could have gone wrong, but the vacuum approach was what finally solved the issue for me. Runs 189 all day long.
 

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Had some what I thought were higher than normal temps when I first got mine. Had the cooling system flushed and at that time a non AC Delco thermostat was installed. That was before I read that these cars are thermostat brand sensitive. Car still seemed to act up. It wasn’t until the thermostat was replaced with an AC Delco, the check valves were installed and the system was a refilled by having the coolant vacuum pulled through that the problem was finally solved.
I tried the compressed air/vice grips on the lines step by step 5 times before having the coolant pulled through, and still had erratic temps. Don’t know where I could have gone wrong, but the vacuum approach was what finally solved the issue for me. Runs 189 all day long.
It would be interesting to know how the kappa assembly line handled coolant-fill.
 

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It would be interesting to know how the kappa assembly line handled coolant-fill.
So would I, or the number of cooling system complaints these cars got when new, or why the valves?
Looked at every coolant purge/fill site and video I could find. Tried several, and when I saw Tim’s, figured that was the one…
Even got air out several times during the process and thought the problem was solved. Wasn’t to be.
The vacuum fill seemed to be the answer, at least for mine.
I love these cars, but they can be ornery little buggers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #60 ·
Burped lot of air out using the method on tims garage video
Haven’t taken it out yet but it doesn’t over heat idling in the garage

valves come tomorrow - will be installed this weekend -

may just send tstat back to avoid that tight job if it’s not the issue
 
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