Saturn Sky Forum banner

RedLine Break-In Procedure

6K views 34 replies 22 participants last post by  ebonysky 
#1 · (Edited)
I'm curious and haven't seen the manual or heard any discussion on how to break-in a new RedLine or GXP. Anyone know the drill?:) Thanks
 
#22 ·
Yes, it is the technique that I used for both the 2.4 in my Kappa and my current 1.9 in my Saturn.

With both engines, I now have negligible oil consumption, in stark contrast to the oil consumption rates that I had on my "by the book" break-in on my previous 1.9 engine.

Also, I used to get terrible blow-by contamination with the 1.9--the oil would be jet black after about 1200 miles of hard running, and smelled like exhaust. Now, both engines have the oil only slightly darkened (like a light honey) after a full 3000 miles.

You know, I've built my own blueprinted hand gapped high compression high performance engines, and I knew that the rings had to wear into the surface, and I knew that the only way to do that was to get high ring pressures from large intake charges, but I ignored my own knowledge and used to go by the book.

I sure bought a lot of oil for my Saturn over the years. It would use about 1 quart every 1500 miles, and needed changing about 2500 because it would be dark black, smelly, and starting to burn at the rate of a quart every 750 miles. I don't have to do that any more. Now, I pull the dip stick, and marvel at the fact that I've gone about 2000 miles, and only lost about 1/8 of a quart--the oil still covering the very highest part of the dipstick marking region....

The engines do rev faster, and that makes heel toe much easier and quicker.

It really comes down to understanding that the cylinder wall honing is there NOT to leave grooves that allow oil to remain on the side walls. Also that the groves are not there to permit the combustion gases to squeeze past the rings--they're there so that the rings can wear their faces smooth and mate perfectly with the cylinder wall which has also been worn into a matching circular shape...

I'm just as guilty as the rest about having previously ignored what I knew about engines and followed the MFG's recommendations, but that was in the past.
 
#6 ·
Well, just spent the last hour Googling for any manner of a consensus for engine break-in. Predictably, there is none. I've attempted this many times before and it is always futile trying to find a consensus on car break-in.

Most major companies still advocate the 50's style "keep speeds down and don't lug it or rev it hard for 500 miles" mantra. Then you've got a bunch of companies advocating the "load it hard to seat the rings" philosophy. You've got your racers who say break it in on the dyno. You've got folks claiming the dyno is 5 times harder on the motor than drag racing. And you've got several sources including Mobile Oil saying, "modern cars are so well built, you don't need an extended break in anymore. Period".

Once again I call on the scholastic community to do a little experimental research in controlled settings to see what benefits or hazards, if any, result from the various brake-in procedures.

At this point I am in the "50's style change speeds but keep revs down but don't lug or accelerate too hard" camp. It's worked for me so far. But then again, if no break-in is really necessary, then everything all of us do has worked for all of us so far, only reinforcing our tendency to believe that whatever we are doing for break-in is the only right method for breaking in a new motor.:willy:

Is anybody a member of SAE? Every attempt to get information from them has lead to a paper I have to pay for to download. :brentil:
 
#7 ·
Well, just spent the last hour Googling for any manner of a consensus for engine break-in. Predictably, there is none. I've attempted this many times before and it is always futile trying to find a consensus on car break-in.

Most major companies still advocate the 50's style "keep speeds down and don't lug it or rev it hard for 500 miles" mantra. Then you've got a bunch of companies advocating the "load it hard to seat the rings" philosophy. You've got your racers who say break it in on the dyno. You've got folks claiming the dyno is 5 times harder on the motor than drag racing. And you've got several sources including Mobile Oil saying, "modern cars are so well built, you don't need an extended break in anymore. Period".

Once again I call on the scholastic community to do a little experimental research in controlled settings to see what benefits or hazards, if any, result from the various brake-in procedures.

At this point I am in the "50's style change speeds but keep revs down but don't lug or accelerate too hard" camp. It's worked for me so far. But then again, if no break-in is really necessary, then everything all of us do has worked for all of us so far, only reinforcing our tendency to believe that whatever we are doing for break-in is the only right method for breaking in a new motor.:willy:

Is anybody a member of SAE? Every attempt to get information from them has lead to a paper I have to pay for to download. :brentil:
Jimbo,

The question of break-in always comes up when someone gets a new vehicle, I have never heard of any failures, I am sure they happen, but very rare. I break-in like I drive em. My son is SAE certified I'll ask him if he can get some info on this subject.:thumbs:

Cal
 
#9 ·
I too have always drove it hard from day one. None of my cars burned oil like the cars the lady across the street. She gets a new car/van and drives so slowly and you can first smell the oil and after time can actually see the typical oil cloud trailing behind her.

I have used synthetic oil for years and change it every five thousand miles. My current car has over 214,000 miles and puts your head back as I stomp to pass. The engine is so clean folks think I just pressure cleaned it and the exhaust pipe is clean.

So yes I strongly agee with a hard break-in! :thumbs:
 
#10 ·
Break in Period

I am not advocating anyone follow my path or deviate from the manufacturer's prescribed method of break in but I can tell you this. I grew up on a car lot my father owned and I have been a motorhead for over 40 years so I and my friends have seen, rebuilt, and broken in dozens of motors. Obviously this debate has raged for years but I can tell you that I have seen cars with the 50' style break in tend to use oil and cars which have been broken in like they're going to be driven tend not to use oil. I read the entire site that was referenced by Crimson Avenger http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
and that makes more sense, especially now that machining is more precise. And you certainly can't argue with the pictures showing the difference between the two types of break in. My point is this; if you take a car that has been softly broken in and driven for a while (years) and start romping on it, it will come apart and break down. If you break it in harder you can romp on it after the break in and it is more likely to stay together. It has a 100K mile warranty anyway. Please draw your own conclusions but I know how mine will broken in. I am not advocating driving straight to the local race track to see how many RPMs it will take or if you can make it come apart but I'm going to have a pretty good idea what my Redline is made of about a mile from the dealership when I can get out in the country on some straight open road. Good luck to all and may your wait be rewarded with a ride that exceeds expectations when your Sky is in your driveway!
 
#11 ·
I am not advocating anyone follow my path or deviate from the manufacturer's prescribed method of break in but I can tell you this. I grew up on a car lot my father owned and I have been a motorhead for over 40 years so I and my friends have seen, rebuilt, and broken in dozens of motors. Obviously this debate has raged for years but I can tell you that I have seen cars with the 50' style break in tend to use oil and cars which have been broken in like they're going to be driven tend not to use oil. I read the entire site that was referenced by Crimson Avenger http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
and that makes more sense, especially now that machining is more precise. And you certainly can't argue with the pictures showing the difference between the two types of break in. My point is this; if you take a car that has been softly broken in and driven for a while (years) and start romping on it, it will come apart and break down. If you break it in harder you can romp on it after the break in and it is more likely to stay together. It has a 100K mile warranty anyway. Please draw your own conclusions but I know how mine will broken in. I am not advocating driving straight to the local race track to see how many RPMs it will take or if you can make it come apart but I'm going to have a pretty good idea what my Redline is made of about a mile from the dealership when I can get out in the country on some straight open road. Good luck to all and may your wait be rewarded with a ride that exceeds expectations when your Sky is in your driveway!
:agree: :agree:
Except I also tend to do it in short runs, and try to never let the engine fully warm up in the first couple 100 miles, this may be overkill now days with synthetic oil, in the old days I always worried about gumming the oil. :thumbs:
 
#12 ·
break in

You shouldnt rage on a brand new motor. Give it a few hundred for the rings to seat properly. If the cylinders glaze early, oil consumption will increase,, usually. Also, never use synthetic immediately. I would start with that after the first oil change. I wouldnt use anything but synthetic on a turbo motor.

Does the redline come with synth from the factory??
 
#13 · (Edited)
You shouldnt rage on a brand new motor. Give it a few hundred for the rings to seat properly. If the cylinders glaze early, oil consumption will increase,, usually. Also, never use synthetic immediately. I would start with that after the first oil change. I wouldnt use anything but synthetic on a turbo motor.

Does the redline come with synth from the factory??
No it is coming with regular oil.
 
#14 ·
I'm in agreement that you should drive it like you do everyday. I do not mean putting your foot through the throttle all day long, but you should extend the rpm range all the way from time to time. Why, because as you drive in the higher rpm range, the pistons will extend higher into the cylinde wall top. Laymans term - Its the spinning object idea that the force increases outward with centrifical force. You prevent the cylinder walls from building up a ridge at the end of the stroke during breakin and if later on you start hammering on the engine, the rings actually hit the ridge harder with increased rpms. I am an engineer and a gearhead for 30 years now and have seen it all. And as a final note the factory engines do have a mch better tolerence machining than in the past, but the engines that have been built for years by the specialty shops have always been done well.
 
#16 · (Edited)
here"s what i think works

1st if possiple perform heat cycles 4 to 6 in the early stages of running the engine.

increase the time the motor heat and cools. j e pistons a high perfomance company that manufacturs high flow heads and forged pistons for cars and motorcycles has explain
to us that in the early stages of running a new motor the piston will actually explode and expain in the early stages and start to form to the cyclinder wall. thats why many engine builders believe in heat cycles letting the metals heat and cool down.

so i would increase the time running as the cycles add up say

1 5 min 2 10 min etc

might be hard to do but if your not in a hurry its possible

so i would stay off the highway at first and short runs as many as possible

no light thottle at one set speed let the motorwork

and after that i would just increase the rpm range as the miles build

so my system would be like this

0 to 50 miles heat cycles

50 to 250 miles stay on secondary roads let the motor work no light thottle at one set speed / off the highway if possible but not in traffic either which would heat the motor more let the motor get air and work. cool weather is even better

250 to 500 miles increase the rpm range but don t get crazy you will feel whats right i would have to own the car to kind of know the range of the powerband but you can feel it if you take your time

after 500 to 1000 miles i would change the 1st oil closer to the 500 mark and only then would i increase the pulls on the r

but thats me and it might sound crazy to some of you

but try to use some of this things and you should be fine

good luck and happy motoring !
 
#19 ·
hello

anyways dont get me wrong you could start this car drive to cailfornia from new jersey and i am sure you would not hurt anything

this would just be my system of break in

also dont lug the motor which means to high a gear for the speed you are going keep it crisp if you know what i mean

good luck

also i believe new motors are run in a engine room at the factory to check for balance and stuff before they are installed. so maybe heat cycles are performed at this time im just not sure how much time they would spend.

peace out mark aka hayabusa
 
#20 · (Edited)
Your car being prep by the service dept for 5 or 10 mins of a test drive and then shut off theres your 1st heat cycles right there

And the one or ones in the engine room when they run the motor but im not sure if they just run the motor once or not maybe at all__ somebody would works at the factory could tell us more maybe

I believe a complete cool dowm is the best but i understand not many people can do this.

But most of you will find out that after one week of owning the car and the car sits over night and has a complete cool down you will start to feel the motor getting stronger.

later mark
 
#26 ·
Hot Testing RL engines

This thread is so old I probably should have started a new one, but here goes: This past Sunday I met one of the 6 people who actually make the RL engines in Tennessee. Some of his reflections:
Differences between the RL engines and the 2.4: He said there are "a lot of higher quality parts in the RL engines, for example, the forged pistons vs the cast pistons." He did not further elaborate, except to say that they had "dropped a 30g turbo [I think I got that right, he didn't elaborate]
on the 2.0 engine and it hit 750 horsepower" He did not go into details but said you would never want to push the 2.4 up to that level.
But here is the part that pertains to this thread:
He said every turbo engine is "hot tested" before it leaves the plant. I asked what that means. "They run them at 3-4 thousand for 5 minutes then at wide-open for 10 minutes" What was wide-open? He said 6,000 rpm. That's why he said there is no necessity to "break in" these engines on the Redline at all. So it is somewhat as espoused in the above website link, but already done for us. I asked, "Why don't they just tell us this stuff??" He had no idea.
A very interesting guy to talk to!
 
#28 ·
This thread is so old I probably should have started a new one, but here goes: This past Sunday I met one of the 6 people who actually make the RL engines in Tennessee. Some of his reflections:
Differences between the RL engines and the 2.4: He said there are "a lot of higher quality parts in the RL engines, for example, the forged pistons vs the cast pistons." He did not further elaborate, except to say that they had "dropped a 30g turbo [I think I got that right, he didn't elaborate]
on the 2.0 engine and it hit 750 horsepower" He did not go into details but said you would never want to push the 2.4 up to that level.
But here is the part that pertains to this thread:
He said every turbo engine is "hot tested" before it leaves the plant. I asked what that means. "They run them at 3-4 thousand for 5 minutes then at wide-open for 10 minutes" What was wide-open? He said 6,000 rpm. That's why he said there is no necessity to "break in" these engines on the Redline at all. So it is somewhat as espoused in the above website link, but already done for us. I asked, "Why don't they just tell us this stuff??" He had no idea.
A very interesting guy to talk to!
Very Interesting, Thanks :thumbs:
 
#27 ·
That's true of all the special high performance engines, such as the Corvette LS7, as well. They used to fire them on propane. Don't know if that's how they do it still. All the manufacturers follow the same practice. The regular production engines are cold run; where the engine is spun by an electric motor to ensure oil pressure is up to snuff and there are no noises. But the owner break-in has very little to do with settling the engine down. It has more to do with the rest of the drivetrain and brakes.
 
#29 ·
No problem. I found him in Plainwell, Michigan, at an ice cream shop. He is from TN and was on his way back there, having driven out to CA for a visit. Sort of out of his way to hit Michigan, I thought, but hey, we need all the tourism we can get.
 
#32 ·
Good point. I never thought of breaking in a differential. Good thing I have been very conservative with the car up until now. Today at 690 miles my engine or some connected component has a new ticking noise in it. This has so far lasted the 5.2 miles home from a store. Sems to be connected to the engine speed and not the drivetrain. With the hood up, it sounds like it is on the top of the engine on the left, at the turbo area.
Will start a new thread about this once I know what it is.
 
#33 ·
This thread is old, but our RedLine is new (delivery 6/25/07) so here goes...when we asked the dealer about how we should break-in the car they said take it easy for the first 500 miles and then just drive it like you would any car...period.

The thing to remember is your breaking in a brand new car, not just the engine. As has been pointed out in this thread, the transmission, breaks, rear end all need time to break-in.
 
#34 ·
here is what I posted a couple of days ago in the tech section this applies to all engines whether it is boosted or NA. Everyone has there tried antrue ways of doing break in epecially different for race engines. break in can be short and sweet but for the long haul the break in for me below has worked well

I am not a mechanic but I am ASE certified

In the engines that I have built and had last here is what I do and with many engines with 100,000 plus i dont have problems.

For the intial break in period you want to clock at least 500 miles and you want to vary your RPM's and your MPH. The biggest thing that you are trying to seat are the piston rings, If you do not follow the break in correctly the rings will not seat properly and could cause premature oil blowby

When you redline it in the breakin period you may cause the cylinder wall to heat up quickly and glaze over the small amount of oil on the walls. Thus you will not achieve seating of the rings in this option.

If you dont drive it enough the rings dont get a chance to heat up and expand properly like they are supposed to. thus it will leave a fine film on the cyliner walls just like if you were over revving it and then eventually it would glaze as well

You RPM's must vary in order to properly heatup the rings and cool them down. Never do you want to overheat them in the breakin period.

On a new engine Short little trips can be a killer thus if you are planning short little trips add a couple extra miles to the trip to allow the engine heat up to operatin temps and be broke in correctly

From another post later on I made


The break in period varys from person to person and car to car. Each engine that leaves the factory has been run to ensure that infact it does run and your engine is put together with assembly lube for the initial couple of starts to ensure lubrication. Every new or rebuilt engine needs to be broke in and in the long run it is worthwhile.

By taking it out and everynow and then revving it high is good in the break in period but you wouldn't want to hold like that constantly.

Your cylinder walls are not matched to your rings, Until you break your engine in. When a cylinder wall is new it has a cross hatch pattern (like a bunch of x's in the wall.) The rings scrapes the wall of the bore as the piston moves up and down and the rings match themselves to the cylinder wall. Moving them fast and slow down the bore causes heat expansion and the rings seat better, if they never heat up then they never mate

hence the previous saying
"If you baby the car the car will learn and become a baby" curtious of Yellow Sky and its a good quote

Take it out and have fun but not all the time be nice to it for the first 500 and then change the oil put sythetic in it and enjoy
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top