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Discussion Starter #1
Note: Also posted in the Sol Forum

So, after 82,000+ Miles, the water pump in my '08 Sky Redline finally succumbed (Is this a record?? LOL!). Luckily, I bought an Extended Warranty or Insurance Policy for this very expectation. Insurance pays $1078, I pay $200 deduct.

While it is being fixed at Gay Buick GMC (Formerly Gay Pontiac) in Dickinson, TX, I am wondering what other wear items are easily accessible while the WP is being extracted.

Like the Timing Chain Tensioner? Wasn't there a Service Bulletin to replace the Tensioner with a newer design?

What about the A/C Belt? I know that the A/C Comp is on the other side of the engine, but is this job any easier with all of the crapola out of the way to do the WP job?

Any other suggestions?

Thanks!

Yogi
 

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Really the only things easier to access while the water pump is off would be things like your downpipe, O2 sensors, turbo, the gaskets that go in those areas, thermostat, and coolant temperature sensor. Everything else would require more work to get to.

All the things you mentioned are on the front of the engine and would require further labor charges to get to them. If you were going with a new timing chain tensioner though the Accessory belt (drives the Power steering pump and AC compressor) would need to come off anyway so that could be replaced at no extra labor charge than would be required to take off the front engine plate.

Now, IF they mess up your water pump install and the chain that drives the pump moves, they will NEED to take off that front engine plate and you could address these things at THAT time...but that's going to be you negotiating with the dealership at that point. "Well, you guys are there anyway and since the tensioner may be damaged by having it overtight and the chain putting too much wear on it could you just replace that and then charge me the labor it would take to take care of the one on the timing chain too? Thanks." LOL
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Really the only things easier to access while the water pump is off would be things like your downpipe, O2 sensors, turbo, the gaskets that go in those areas, thermostat, and coolant temperature sensor. Everything else would require more work to get to.

All the things you mentioned are on the front of the engine and would require further labor charges to get to them. If you were going with a new timing chain tensioner though the Accessory belt (drives the Power steering pump and AC compressor) would need to come off anyway so that could be replaced at no extra labor charge than would be required to take off the front engine plate.
Holy Cow, ROBO!
So, if I understand ya correctly, ya hafta remove the P/S - A/C belt AND the engine front cover IF ya want to replace the TC Tensioner?? WOW! And here I thought that it was like a LARGE spark plug that just screwed in from the top? Obviously NOT!!

Now, IF they mess up your water pump install and the chain that drives the pump moves, they will NEED to take off that front engine plate and you could address these things at THAT time...but that's going to be you negotiating with the dealership at that point. "Well, you guys are there anyway and since the tensioner may be damaged by having it overtight and the chain putting too much wear on it could you just replace that and then charge me the labor it would take to take care of the one on the timing chain too? Thanks." LOL
Forgive my LNF ignorance once again, ROBO, but I have colored and underlined where it appears that yer are talkin bout TWO SEPARATE TENSIONERS. I know that there are 2 chains (Cams + Balance) BUT do they both have individual TENSIONERS?

I almost fergot:
Have ya seen anybody use this "Upper Timing Chain Guide Bolt" replacement Bolt/Plug? (Item #5 in the lower photo) https://www.skyroadster.com/forums/f5/timing-chain-88034/index2.html#post1208377

It seems like the torque/tension on this replacement Bolt would be seriously limited by the sealing O-Ring. If ya tightened it too tight, it would mash the O-Ring into a bunch of rubber chips. Too loose, and the bolt would just back out like the OEM bolt. Thoughts?

Thank ya so much, Mr. Wizzard!

Yogi
 

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Holy Cow, ROBO!
So, if I understand ya correctly, ya hafta remove the P/S - A/C belt AND the engine front cover IF ya want to replace the TC Tensioner?? WOW! And here I thought that it was like a LARGE spark plug that just screwed in from the top? Obviously NOT!!



Forgive my LNF ignorance once again, ROBO, but I have colored and underlined where it appears that yer are talkin bout TWO SEPARATE TENSIONERS. I know that there are 2 chains (Cams + Balance) BUT do they both have individual TENSIONERS?

I almost fergot:
Have ya seen anybody use this "Upper Timing Chain Guide Bolt" replacement Bolt/Plug? (Item #5 in the lower photo) https://www.skyroadster.com/forums/f5/timing-chain-88034/index2.html#post1208377

It seems like the torque/tension on this replacement Bolt would be seriously limited by the sealing O-Ring. If ya tightened it too tight, it would mash the O-Ring into a bunch of rubber chips. Too loose, and the bolt would just back out like the OEM bolt. Thoughts?

Thank ya so much, Mr. Wizzard!

Yogi
I can say with 100% certainty that one of the tensioners (cam chain) is on the side of the block and simply unscrews. Be careful not to slip timing...speaking from experience with an inop sky in my back yard...
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks, Rockchops. It's at the dealer, so if they screw it up, it's their problem!
 

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Yogi, as I stated on the Solstice forum, not certain if you really should take your car there. Unless you really don't care about how well the job is done. I have been in close to 200 dealerships nationwide, and they were one of them and after what I encountered there, I would never take my own vehicle there. I hope that I'm wrong and they do a superb job for you.
 

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I don't know about that price... I'm in Danville CA and the garage that services my car would charge less than 200$ for the coolant fix. Pass on the dealership. A dealership is focused on servicing cars less than 6 years old. GM doesn't care about a 10 year old Saturn.

89,000 miles is not a lot of miles. You should be good on major repairs until 180,000. Don't do the tensioner.

I'd replace the thermostat, the coolant reservoir (it has a sensor in it that can go bad), the wire harness that connects to the coolant reservoir and the water pump. I don't have the part number for the wire harness - my mechanic figured it out and ordered it. That should make it so you won't have coolant messages for the next 60,000 miles.

If you replace the O2-sensor purchase it on a gm-parts site. And confirm that your mechanic knows how to tighten it with a torque wrench.

Consider replacing the sparkplugs and throttle body. If they find oil on the old spark plugs that could mean you need a new valve cover gasket.

The electric wiring in the throttle can melt - resulting in sluggish performance and lower gas mileage (youtube it). Plugs are cheap - but a new throttle body goes for 300$ including shipping.

The coolant related parts will cost you about $160 - if purchased on-line. And let's say you get the throttle body. Total 500$ in parts.

Here in CA the labor for everything would be less than 400$. And that tune up should last you 80,000 miles. Someone else will probably own your car by then.
 

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I don't know about that price... I'm in Danville CA and the garage that services my car would charge less than 200$ for the coolant fix. Pass on the dealership. A dealership is focused on servicing cars less than 6 years old. GM doesn't care about a 10 year old Saturn.

89,000 miles is not a lot of miles. You should be good on major repairs until 180,000. Don't do the tensioner.

I'd replace the thermostat, the coolant reservoir (it has a sensor in it that can go bad), the wire harness that connects to the coolant reservoir and the water pump. I don't have the part number for the wire harness - my mechanic figured it out and ordered it. That should make it so you won't have coolant messages for the next 60,000 miles.

If you replace the O2-sensor purchase it on a gm-parts site. And confirm that your mechanic knows how to tighten it with a torque wrench.

Consider replacing the sparkplugs and throttle body. If they find oil on the old spark plugs that could mean you need a new valve cover gasket.

The electric wiring in the throttle can melt - resulting in sluggish performance and lower gas mileage (youtube it). Plugs are cheap - but a new throttle body goes for 300$ including shipping.

The coolant related parts will cost you about $160 - if purchased on-line. And let's say you get the throttle body. Total 500$ in parts.

Here in CA the labor for everything would be less than 400$. And that tune up should last you 80,000 miles. Someone else will probably own your car by then.
You are INCORRECT about your pricing. Labor time alone for the WP is over 7 hours!!! At $120/hr that's $840 just for labor!!! Trust me, I have access to the GM service manual and the labor hours it takes.
 

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Yogi, as I stated on the Solstice forum, not certain if you really should take your car there. Unless you really don't care about how well the job is done. I have been in close to 200 dealerships nationwide, and they were one of them and after what I encountered there, I would never take my own vehicle there. I hope that I'm wrong and they do a superb job for you.
Thanks, Ghost.
Yogi
 

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I can say with 100% certainty that one of the tensioners (cam chain) is on the side of the block and simply unscrews. Be careful not to slip timing...speaking from experience with an inop sky in my back yard...
That's part of the timing chain tensioner.

Holy Cow, ROBO!
So, if I understand ya correctly, ya hafta remove the P/S - A/C belt AND the engine front cover IF ya want to replace the TC Tensioner?? WOW! And here I thought that it was like a LARGE spark plug that just screwed in from the top? Obviously NOT!!


Forgive my LNF ignorance once again, ROBO, but I have colored and underlined where it appears that yer are talkin bout TWO SEPARATE TENSIONERS. I know that there are 2 chains (Cams + Balance) BUT do they both have individual TENSIONERS?


Thank ya so much, Mr. Wizzard!

Yogi
https://techwireless.ecrater.com/p/25303879/22-dohc-timing-chain-kit-cam

I'm attaching the above link to a timing chain set since it has all the parts I'm going to talk about. I'm attaching the picture too but that doesn't always work so...

If you look at the attached picture, you'll see the two chains...the upper one is your true timing chain, the other one is the one that drives your water pump and balance shafts.

Just below the sprocket pictured with the upper chain is the tensioner Rockchops mentions. This part pushes against the long curved piece it is pointing to and what I was referencing as a tensioner before. You'll see this piece is silver with a beige "pad" on it. The silver part is aluminum but the "pad" is a form of plastic (don't know if it's delrin, nylon, etc...). It's this plastic "pad" that wears and eventually will disappear completely. When this is gone, you have metal chain on aluminum arm and that's bad. LOL When people talk about the tensioner wearing out or being damaged by running the chain over-tightened due to allowing the water pump sprocket to slip during a water pump changeout, this is the piece they're talking about.

You also will note a number of other "beige guides" in the picture on the lower chain. There is one, the very bottom one, that only has one hole in it right next to the large lowermost sprocket. This is the other tensioner. It can wear out too. There is another guide in this setup that is not pictured and it goes on the timing chain (upper chain) between the two big sprockets. This is also silver with a beige pad like that chain's tensioner and it too can wear and cause metal on metal contact when worn out.

Everything you see in that picture except for the one tensioner piece Rockchops mentioned is only accessible via the front engine cover.
 

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