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Not sure if I have seen any indication regarding rotors and calipers on the Red Line - will they be the same as on the base Sky? I am thinking that with more HP plus the Stabili-track maybe the rotors and calipers are not the same.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Right

Oh yeah - forgot about the ducts - i guess that makes enough difference to not need different parts - still I might look into ceramic pads.
 

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All new GM sports cars come with ceramic pads don't they?
 

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Same sizing but with cooling ducts. Thats the first thing Im going to upgrade. Recall, ceramic does not equal performance (actually the ceramic content is quite low).
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Ceramic

SilverZ said:
Same sizing but with cooling ducts. Thats the first thing Im going to upgrade. Recall, ceramic does not equal performance (actually the ceramic content is quite low).
I thought that ceramic pads would both cut down on dust and reduce the heat that woudl build up in the pad thus improving performance and life - at least under certain conditions. But maybe with pads so small and unless I get on some road course racing circuit it wouldn't really matter.

Or could it be that in racing applications even a couple ounces of weight saved per pad is goodness?

http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=88
Ceramic pads meet or exceed all original equipment standards for durability, stopping distance and noise. According to durability tests, ceramic compounds extend brake life compared to most other semi-metallic and organic materials and outlast other premium pad materials by a significant margin - with no sacrifice in noise control, pad life or braking performance.
or maybe it is just about dust and life span - still if those are the only advantages they woudl both be worth a couple dollars extra, no?
 

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The RL/GXP I'm pretty sure use the same rotors, calipurs, and brake pads as the base car. Some people have mentioned the base system is already overkill for the base car so moving to the RL/GXP shouldn't really need much change. Brake cooling ducts for the front brakes were added as mentioned.
 

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brentil said:
The RL/GXP I'm pretty sure use the same rotors, calipers, and brake pads as the base car. Some people have mentioned the base system is already overkill for the base car so moving to the RL/GXP shouldn't really need much change. Brake cooling ducts for the front brakes were added as mentioned.
There's no such thing as too much brake!
 

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Same brake components

Using the same brakes in base and RL is principle ok because the mass (weight) of both cars is nearly the same.
The braking performance 60 (or 70) mls/h to 0 mls/h or 100 (or 200) km/h to 0 km/h should be the same at both cars with could brakes.
The difference is breaking down from max. speed 123 mls/h base and 144 mls/h RL. There would be more heating up in the RL brakes. If the additional cooling will dissipate that additional heat the braking performance should be the same.

Under hot braking conditions (10 times 60 to 0) the cooling vents in the RL should give better results.
brentil said:
..... Some people have mentioned the base system is already overkill for the base car .....
I've read some test results:
60 to 0 mls/h >> 122 ft
and another with 132 ft
70 to 0 mls/h >> 160 ft

122 ft is really good, 132 ft is a liitle high.

Has someone got some newer test results?
 

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C20LET_50 said:
I've read some test results:
60 to 0 mls/h >> 122 ft
and another with 132 ft
70 to 0 mls/h >> 160 ft

122 ft is really good, 132 ft is a liitle high.

Has someone got some newer test results?
The thing is bigger brakes and calipers do not necessarily mean better stopping power (yes they could help with repetitive stopping with better heat dissipation and such). You're better of spending money on better tires then you are some sort of big brake kit. We've had a very long and technical discussion at the SolForum on this topic and braking is really more a function of your tires then the calipers and rotors.
 

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Inwo said:
There's no such thing as too much brake!
Actually yes there is. You see so many tuners pimp their cars out with big brake kits expecting better brake performance and 'looks' of course too. When in reality those types of kits can actually negatively impact the performance of the car they're put on. Larger rotors add additional rotating mass which increases the rotational inertia. Sports Car Revolution proved with an RSX-S moving from the stock brake kit to a big brake kit they ended up loosing near 12HP to the wheels I believe it was.
 

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brentil said:
The thing is bigger brakes and calipers do not necessarily mean better stopping power (yes they could help with repetitive stopping with better heat dissipation and such). You're better of spending money on better tires then you are some sort of big brake kit....
:agree:
High performance tyres are a precondition to get short brake distances. But if you compare new cars, all automobil testers use the tyres which are delivered from the manufacturer (RSA all season for the Sky and F1 GS2 for the RL).

I just read a test between BMW Z4 3.0 and Porsche Boxter 2.7:

BMW brake distance 100 km/h > 0 - 37,6m (123 ft) cold, 36,5 m (120 ft) warm
Porsche brake distance 100 km/h > 0 - 35,5m (116 ft) cold, 35 m (115 ft) warm

BMW tyres: Bridgestone Potenza 225/45 R 17 W
Porsche tyres: Michelin Pilot Sport 235/265/40 ZR 18 Y

I don't think that bigger rotors/calipers are necessary as long as the brake distances are round about 125 ft or better down from 100 km/h (62 mls/h) because a high speed car must have a high performance brake.

If I compare with my 1992 Opel Calibra Turbo (max speed 245 km/h - 152 mls/h) it had a brake performance with the 1992 Firestone tyres 205/50 ZR 16 lower 130 ft (cold 38,6 m / 127 ft, warm 39 m / 128 ft) out of 100 km/h. That was really good at that time - and the same as a new S2000.
Rotors front 284 mm / 11,2" , rear 270 mm / 10,6" and a 4-channel independent ABS (Anti-lock). For normal drivers that was ok, for racing you had to improve the venting and/or use bigger rotors because of heating up in hard and often braking. Weight of the car 3000 lbs, nearly equal to the Sky.

A new high speed car should be a bit better then 14 years ago :thumbs:
 

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Lil GTO said:
or maybe it is just about dust and life span - still if those are the only advantages they woudl both be worth a couple dollars extra, no?
It boils down to what your expectations are. Ceramic pads do offer longer life and less dust (and less black, more yellow) for a typical user. However, for aggressive drivers and especially track drivers, the ceramic pads do not typically excel as good as a Ferrodo or TMD semi met pad for example. Of course these pads arent the best for the average user since they are not "rotor friendly" and will create thickness variation which causes brake pulsation during off brake/hwy driving.

Yes, very true that we are talking increased fade resistance when talking improved braking and are not speaking of improving single-stop stopping distances. That is best achieved through tires, with system response as a second step(braided lines, imroved booster silencer, etc). However, keep in mind that your benefit may not be one for one - due to the ABS calibrations being optimized for the current tire set. Optimized ABS calibrations are key in attaining the lowest stopping distance.
 
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