[skywatcher]

An interesting thread over on the Soltice side has me thinking and looking for input.
Quickly summarizing, a driver reacted incorrectly when he realized he took a high speed turn too fast.
Downshifting mid-turn, the back end broke free, sending him "spinning like a top".

It's been a few years since I drove either RWD or standard transmission,
and doubt I could ever claim to be a great driver.
Yes, don't downshift in the middle of a turn, but when you get in a jam, you react.

Thoughts, comments, advice?

I can only think of working up to feeling the car out.
Sounds good, but I don't expect to hot rod around town, and doubt the local sheriff would oblige.

Not looking for "kill stories", or road racing escapades,
but hope the experience among you could help keep myself, and possibly others, out of trouble.

How should one approach learning a new car with such different characteristics?
Keep in mind, I presently drive a Saturn.....

 

[Ernest]

An interesting thread over on the Soltice side has me thinking and looking for input.
Quickly summarizing, a driver reacted incorrectly when he realized he took a high speed turn too fast.
Downshifting mid-turn, the back end broke free, sending him "spinning like a top".

It's been a few years since I drove either RWD or standard transmission,
and doubt I could ever claim to be a great driver.
Yes, don't downshift in the middle of a turn, but when you get in a jam, you react.

Thoughts, comments, advice?

I can only think of working up to feeling the car out.
Sounds good, but I don't expect to hot rod around town, and doubt the local sheriff would oblige.

Not looking for "kill stories", or road racing escapades,
but hope the experience among you could help keep myself, and possibly others, out of trouble.

How should one approach learning a new car with such different characteristics?
Keep in mind, I presently drive a Saturn.....

Having driven my share of both, I believe anything you do in a front wheel drive car, the opposite should apply to rear wheel. I may be wrong, but front wheel,you accellarate (sp) through the turn because you are being pulled, as a rear wheel drive pushes, you decelerate into the turn and accelerate out of the turn. It has been a long time since I have driven RWD, but I think uit is like riding a bicycle, you never forget. I did a lot of learning driving my 60 Triumph TR3, a dinosaur by today's technology, but it did teach you the fundementals, man I can't wait to get behind the wheel of a RWD roadster again. Simple rule of thumb,, do not do anything until you are totally familair with the characteristics of the vehicle. Anyone not familiar with a vehicle such as the SKY/SOL and immediately goes into the Mario Andretti mode, is
inviting trouble. I am rusty on RWD and plan to nurse it around until I have sufficient wheel time and have made myself one with the car, before I attempt any performance maneuvers. I will still keep it my mind that I am considerably, lets not fool myself, I am a bunch more older, and of course my reaction time has slowed, so I don't plan to be the fastest, most nimble driver on the hiway, just the one with the largest grin.

ERNEST:thumbs: :cheers: :jester:

Remeber, A fool & his car are soon departed

 

[skywatcher]

Remeber, A fool & his car are soon departed

Thanks, Ernest.
Will continue to ponder, and no doubt reread a few times.
Sounds like a driver and his rear end are soon departed as well.
Bit more HP here than my 69 Tr6, not to mention as you say, different technology.
Any idea whether LSD helps or hurts in this scenerio?

 

[SkyMan 08]

In the Sky you will have antilock brakes also, which will help in this situation, do not downshift but slowly let off the gas and apply the brakes slowly and steer through the turn taking the largest arc you can through the turn, . I am not sure that LSD would make much difference, unless it would cause both rear wheels to slow at the same rate and cause the spin to be even worse.

the key thing is do not make abrupt changes in either steering, braking or gas, or you could find your self doing doughnuts down the highway.....

 

[Ernest]

:thumbs: Well put Sky Man. Well put!!!

ERNEST:cheers: :jester:

 

[Ernest]

Thanks, Ernest.
Will continue to ponder, and no doubt reread a few times.
Sounds like a driver and his rear end are soon departed as well.
Bit more HP here than my 69 Tr6, not to mention as you say, different technology.
Any idea whether LSD helps or hurts in this scenerio?

Hey Skywatcher, nice to hear from a fellow Triumph owner. On the same note, it has a LOT more power than my '60 TR3A, 4 cyl, yup!!!

ERNEST:thumbs:

 

[nighttripper]

In the Sky you will have antilock brakes also, which will help in this situation, do not downshift but slowly let off the gas and apply the brakes slowly and steer through the turn taking the largest arc you can through the turn, . I am not sure that LSD would make much difference, unless it would cause both rear wheels to slow at the same rate and cause the spin to be even worse.

the key thing is do not make abrupt changes in either steering, braking or gas, or you could find your self doing doughnuts down the highway.....

Hope to remember this its been awhile for me too.Well practice will make perfect :cheers:

 

[Ernest]

Hope to remember this its been awhile for me too.Well practice will make perfect :cheers:

Having been close to 40 years, I will have to lot of practice to make perfect:lol:

ERNEST:thumbs:

 

[eldeeko]

Cornering with manuel - Manual Transmission Tip

Approach the turn low - hit the gas just as you enter the turn and at the same time give the steering wheel a quick jerk away from the turn and then back - This will get all four wheels (drifting) skidding towards the outside of the turn (downshift while in the drift). Pop the clutch and give it the gas. Now if you did that right you should be straightened out and about 20 lengths ahead of "smokey" and smokey should be spinning behind you (use mirror). If that didn't work it is too late to re-read this as you will have been a goner.
Manuel

Ha!

 

[davemcq]

Having driven my share of both, I believe anything you do in a front wheel drive car, the opposite should apply to rear wheel. I may be wrong, but front wheel,you accellarate (sp) through the turn because you are being pulled, as a rear wheel drive pushes, you decelerate into the turn and accelerate out of the turn.

Another thing to remember is that, in addition to the question of FWD vs. RWD, there is the question of weight distribution. A car with more weight up front, e.g. nearly every "normal" car on the road today, will have a tendency to understeer. But cars with more weight in the rear will have a tendency to oversteer, where the back end will pop out and possibly spin.

Since the Sky is supposed to have 50-50 weight distribution, ideally, it will have a perfect blend of handling. But since most of us are conditioned by the cars we drive (and the manufacturers' tendency to set up cars to behave in the "safer" understeer mode), driving the Sky or Solstice could potentially make a spin situation more likely when driven at the limits.

 

[Mallard]

In the Sky you will have antilock brakes also, which will help in this situation, do not downshift but slowly let off the gas and apply the brakes slowly and steer through the turn taking the largest arc you can through the turn, . I am not sure that LSD would make much difference, unless it would cause both rear wheels to slow at the same rate and cause the spin to be even worse.

the key thing is do not make abrupt changes in either steering, braking or gas, or you could find your self doing doughnuts down the highway.....

It doesn't sound like ABS would have helped this guys situation. He wasn't on low mu, he didn't stab the brakes and lock up the wheels. ABS would do absolutely nothing in this situation. Only stability control would have helped his situation.

This guy was driving like and idiot and people are making this out to be more of an issue then it is. Downshifting in a turn is the worst thing you could do, FWD or RWD. You could either A) have a lot of engine braking, transferring weight to the front tires, causing you to spin or get loose...or B) lock the rear tires causing you to spin or get loose. Your car will not spontaneously spin if you corner hard. But if you're at the limit of the tires and you do something stupid to upset the car you're going to have a handful.

 

[WishfulThinking]

I had a couple of TR7's myself (don't know why I didn't learn better after the first one... but anyway).

I'm kinda thinking the same thing. All the accel/decel stuff is supposed to compensate for a balance problem. If the car is balanced right wouldn't you want to shoot for a "throttle-neutral" position (not accel or decel), or just get on the clutch in a panic?

 

[SkyMan 08]

It doesn't sound like ABS would have helped this guys situation. He wasn't on low mu, he didn't stab the brakes and lock up the wheels. ABS would do absolutely nothing in this situation. Only stability control would have helped his situation.

This guy was driving like and idiot and people are making this out to be more of an issue then it is. Downshifting in a turn is the worst thing you could do, FWD or RWD. You could either A) have a lot of engine braking, transferring weight to the front tires, causing you to spin or get loose...or B) lock the rear tires causing you to spin or get loose. Your car will not spontaneously spin if you corner hard. But if you're at the limit of the tires and you do something stupid to upset the car you're going to have a handful.

You need to read what i wrote more closely, I was just saying do not downshift
When he downshifted it broke the rear tires loose and caused the spin... letting off the gas and braking with a ABS system (or gently applying the brakes without lockup) could have kept him from spinning out...

 

[sky_vue]

I had seen somewhere (the article eludes me) that GM will be placing Stabilitrak and Onstar on all vehicles starting model year 2008 (second year of the sky or 2 A.C. (Anno Caelum) for those really putting an emphasis on this car). This sort of problem will be easier to handle at that point. This will be a major factor for me if the rumour turns out to be true I expect that I will get the Redline with Stabilitrak..

 

[Kappa Fan]

You need to read what i wrote more closely, I was just saying do not downshift
When he downshifted it broke the rear tires loose and caused the spin... letting off the gas and braking with a ABS system (or gently applying the brakes without lockup) could have kept him from spinning out...

As far as the back end coming out on you.....I have not done the spin out as this thread is discussing...But, AFTER I got familiar with the car, took it easy for the first few weeks - especially thru the curves - I did on two occasions slip the back end out by over accelerating in a turn. This was instantly corrected on both occasions by BACKING OFF THE GAS - causing the back end to come back.

BTW: I do have LSD but not ABS.

 

[Mallard]

You need to read what i wrote more closely, I was just saying do not downshift
When he downshifted it broke the rear tires loose and caused the spin... letting off the gas and braking with a ABS system (or gently applying the brakes without lockup) could have kept him from spinning out...

I did read what you were saying very carefully and that's why I said ABS would not have helped in this situation. ABS would not be doing anything if you gently applied the brakes. It's not stability control.

I wasn't saying that you were telling him to downshift, I was saying that the way he was driving was stupid and trying to complain about the car or "warn" people about driving fast makes no sense when he did a manuver that would upset any vehicle. Downshifting mid-turn is dumb, "warning" pople that their car may spin out if they drive like an idiot is dumb, and arguing about it over the internet is even dumber.

 

[ILVMYGT]

My experience with a RWD car is that you steer into the slid. If the rear is sliding to the left you steer to the left. This has served me well when I was a teenager hot rodding cars, like when you do a burn out as the back end go right or left you steer in the same direction. The car crabs but the car direction is forward at an angel. This is also how you drive on ice and snow. The problem is if you don’t counter act the slide rear end the car will continue to come around. The downside to his situation is there was no place for him to correct (i.e., he steers in to the slide he hits the wall.) I have never thought about it but down shifting in a turn is not a great idea. I go in the turn in a lower gear and accelerate out. If you lock up the rear wheels (i.e. loose traction) it will make the situation worse. If you are that far gone you are better off nailing the brakes and trying to drive out of it.

Also as most people know rear engine cars are very hard to recover once they start to slide. They come around very quickly because of the weight in the back.

I have not idea how FWD works as I have never owned one.:willy:

 

[Ernest]

:thumbs: :cheers: Definitely, I agree, on of the first things I learned as a young driver. It has saved my rearend on more than 1 occasion, I garontee!!!!!

ERNEST

 

[eldeeko]

You guys are no fun, loosen up

:thumbs: :cheers: Definitely, I agree, on of the first things I learned as a young driver. It has saved my rearend on more than 1 occasion, I garontee!!!!!

ERNEST

Seems like this is the wrong forum for wild driving. If you kick enough dust in smokey's face you can ditch him as he is overpowered and not used to chasing in the dirt. Lot's of fun out in the toolies but not around populated areas. Of course I am talking about a '47 (flathead) ford hotrod vs (CHP) 1955 Buick Century..No contest in the dirt! and all RWD.

 

[jimbo]

I wasn't saying that you were telling him to downshift, I was saying that the way he was driving was stupid and trying to complain about the car or "warn" people about driving fast makes no sense when he did a manuver that would upset any vehicle. Downshifting mid-turn is dumb, "warning" pople that their car may spin out if they drive like an idiot is dumb, and arguing about it over the internet is even dumber.

You've completely misunderstood the original post on SolsticeForum. Did you even read it?

The poster clearly admits his mistake and cautions others to learn from his mistake. With a whole generation of drivers having never even driven a RWD car, I thought his sharing his experience was both worthwhile and humbling to admit. It was a good reminder that RWD cars can get away from you if YOU make a mistake.

Don't take my word for it, you can re-read the first few lines of his post...

OK I had an accident last night, and want to warn others of my mistake. If you loose control, this car spins like a top.

I dove into a familiar 180 blind freeway onramp just a bit too fast trying to overtake a van to my inside (stupid I know). The problem was that I downshifted too late in the turn trying to sustain enough power in the turn to maintain control. I think I popped the clutch too aggressively, and broke the rear wheels loose.

He was not "complaining about the car". He was not "warning people not to drive too fast". He wasn't warning people that the Solstice may spin "if you drive like an idiot". He merely admitted making a mistake and was sharing that experience for others to learn from. He even later admitted dowshifting in a curve was dumb.

Lighten up.