[C20LET_50]

Looking at the yet known differences between the base model and the RedLine there are some points not quite clear for me:
It seems that base and RL use the same manual Aisin AR-5(MA) transmission. If I look at the datasheet published by GM, the trans shouldn't be strong enough to bear the higher torque of the RL.

link to transmission data

Does anybody know if there is a stronger version of the 5-speed to be build in the RL?
And what about the cardan shaft and the cardan joints, the differential besides of the ratio (3.91 > 3.73) and the drive shafts to the rear wheels.
Are these components the same as in the base or a little stronger and bigger to bear the higher forces from the turbo engine. Otherwise we could have a shorter lifetime and higher maintenance costs in the drivetrain. :banghead:

Or at least the heaviest "clunking" Kappa you've ever heard

And what about the brakes, is there only the better cooling by functional vents with the same dimension of disk and block?

And what does GM mean with the "specific performance suspension" in detail?

Enough questions. Hope somebody of you have got some better informations then me.

 

[Robotech]

I'm interested in this too...would be nice to do an engine swap at some point.

As for the suspension, I bet it is the same that is on the ZO Solstice. Upgreaded shocks, springs, and swaybars.

Perhaps GM got smart and designed the Baseline's drivetrain to be interchangeable with the RL...doubtful...but one can hope.

 

[C20LET_50]

I'm interested in this too...

As for the suspension, I bet it is the same that is on the ZO Solstice. Upgreaded shocks, springs, and swaybars.
...

I agree, but referring to the "performance" suspension I didn't find any precise data such as different dia of swaybars, different load rate of springs and so on.
If you look on the newest GM Online Guide that SKY Spy just posted today
Reference Guide
there is no difference shown in shocks for base and RL, both Bilstein (same type?)

But more important in my opinion is the manual transmission listed as MM5 (Aisin AR-5) for both types. That gearbox is designed for a maximum torque of 225 lb-ft only as shown in the link above. I can't imagine they bolt that trans on an engine with 260 lb-ft max. torque.
Or GM raises the max. torque only on the papers in knowing that most of the drivers won't use that max. torque ever? :nono: That keeps cost low.
Time will show.

 

[zinder46]

The performance upgrades for the Redline were outlined in either Car & Driver, Road & Track or Motor Trend. One magazine stated that the roll bars would be bigger front and back, they also mentioned the size of the change, but I do not have it in front of me. The magaziine also mentioned that the spring rates would have a higher rate(stiffer setting)than the Sky. Engine change of course, and the addition of Stabil a Trac & Traction control.

 

[seal9]

I think the maximum torque is 258, but thats a good point it still is a little light for the 260hp / 260 torque.....????Seal9:cheers:

 

[seal9]

I checked their web site(Aisin AR-5(MA) transmission 258ftlb MAX) so if the Spec's are right 260/260 any mods could push past their list MAX..????? I wonder what changes have been made if any, I could see after market pushing it up 275 or 280 LB add a little more boost????...Seal9

 

[C20LET_50]

I checked their web site(Aisin AR-5(MA) transmission 258ftlb MAX) so if the Spec's are right 260/260 any mods could push past their list MAX..????? I wonder what changes have been made if any, I could see after market pushing it up 275 or 280 LB add a little more boost????...Seal9

Hi Seal,

is the link in my post #1 not correct? That's actual info about Aisin AR-5 (MA5) with 225 lb-ft.
Where did you find that 258 lb-ft, could you post the link?
thanks.

 

[mynewsolstice]

tranny same gear ratios different...also the 260 is BHP all which means about 215-220 to the wheels...give or take

 

[C20LET_50]

tranny same gear ratios different...also the 260 is BHP all which means about 215-220 to the wheels...give or take

Don't agree, what I read is that the transmissions have same ratio in base and RL but the different ratio is in rear diff (3.91 base 3.73 RL).

The strenght of a tranny is not given by the horsepower but is limited by the torque it is able to bear.

 

[seal9]

AR5 Specs

Here is the GM Eng sheet its PDF.....Seal9

 

[Robotech]

tranny same gear ratios different...also the 260 is BHP all which means about 215-220 to the wheels...give or take

As is mentioned HP is far different from torque. However, when dealing with transmission you need to know TQ at the CRANK...that's what the transmission will see.

We have a similar problem in our Grand Prixs. The only difference in our GTP's transmission from the other models is the differential (remember, FWD). Other than that they are the same. Stock power your fine but if you upgrade the GTP much over intake/exhaust and a bit smaller pulley on the Supercharger your going to shred your trans at some point unless you beef it up.

Right now I have a heavy duty chain (again, a FWD thing) and input shaft to handle the extra power I'm putting down not to meantion upgraded clutches and improvements to the valve bodies. But you're looking at $3,400 in work too.

So it wouldn't surprise me in the least that GM is pushing this trans to the max on the RL/GXP. The difference in the rear end ratio may be what they use to keep the stress on the trans a little lower. Generally speaking (but not always) your torque spec on a 4 cyl is less than your HP spec. On the 3800 on the GTPs though we're just the opposite...240 hp and 280 ft/lbs tq...

So the real question is what is the tq spec on the 2.0 Turbo engine? I'm betting it is under 250 ft/lbs so the trans could handle it.

 

[seal9]

260 Lb

This shows the 260/260 I think the Diff gear change will help, But what will the after market parts give in HP and torgue, is 280/280 out of the ? or 300/300 this may well be interesting to watch...Seal9:cheers: :cheers:




The Red Line gets a boost in performance from an Ecotec turbocharged 2.0-liter engine, GM's first direct injection offering in North America. It produces 260 horsepower* (194 kw) at 5300 rpm and 260 lb.-ft. of torque* (353 Nm) at 2500 rpm, making it GM's highest specific output engine ever at 2.1 horsepower per cubic inch of displacement (130 hp / 97 kw per liter) and the most powerful engine in the Ecotec family.

 

[bad72ss]

so by that chart the trans should be good to almost 500lbs of tq . the 250 is what the engine is puting out

 

[mynewsolstice]

the base engine can build to approx. 260 WHP (290 BHP) after that you need to upgrade internals otherwise you sacrifice the engine....the turbo has better rods but 500 BHP or WHP is prob a little High Id'd say 400 WHP at max! also at 400 WHP Id get new set of gears and a tranny cooler!

 

[bad72ss]

i was saying that the trans can handle almost 500 lbs by the specs posted.

 

[C20LET_50]

Here is the GM Eng sheet its PDF.....Seal9

Hi Seal,

I thought we're talking about the manual trans AR-5(MA5), you posted the pdf of the automatic, also interesting

I just found the rest I was looking for all in media.gm.com/powertrain:

pic of the 2006 AR-5 and the datasheet (for Solstice)
pic of the 2007 AR-5 and the datasheet (for Sky, GXP and GT)



2006 AISIN AR-5

View attachment 2006_Aisin AR-5(MA5)Manual.pdf



2007 AISIN AR-5

2007 Aisin AR-5 (MA5)

The datasheet 2007 AR-5 was in .xls, I couldn't upload so I just copied the data:

Type: rear wheel drive, five-speed manual transmission
Engine range: 2.4L - 3.5L
Maximum engine torque: 258 lb-ft (350 Nm)
Gear ratios: MA5
First: 3,75
Second: 2,26
Third: 1,37
Fourth: 1
Fifth: 0,73
Reverse: 3,67
Case material: aluminum
Center distance: 82mm
Fluid type: STF
Transmission weight: wet: 48.6 kg (107 lb)
Fluid capacity (approximate): 2WD: 2.26L (2.4 qt)
4WD: 2.36L (2.5 qt)
AWD: 2.36L (2.5 qt)
Sportscar: 2.6L (2.7 qt)
Power take off: no
Applications: Chevrolet Colorado
GMC Canyon
Hummer 3
Pontiac Solstice
Saturn Sky
Opel Roadster

I don't find any difference so it seems they just quoted the torque higher as they remembered they want to put a stronger engine in that car, very strange
Or the tranny was on a fitness vacation, just becoming stronger without any added pounds in weight :lol:

Maybe someone knows any more then me.

 

[seal9]

Sorry I posted the wrong one...but thats the 258 I found..still could be a problem down the road....Seal9:cheers:

 

[bad72ss]

258 sounds low since they are already puting v8s infront of the 5 speed . but they may be upgrading the trans with better parts

 

[C20LET_50]

In my opinion the 2006 and the 2007 gearboxes are absolute identically; they just changed the datasheets.
That could be the same often done in heavy industries: the bearable maximium load is just what the customer ordered, not the real strength of the engine or component. So the deliverer has no problem in warranty if the customer overloads.
That means for the cars: GM is writing in the datasheets only the max. torque of the strongest engine they actual combine that tranny.
For the 2006 applications (Chevy Colordo, GMC Canyon, Hummer 3, Solstice) the highest might have been 225 lb-ft, with the RL/GXP/GT they raised it up to 258 (260) lb-ft.
Would be pleased someone could check those cars if my thinking is on the right way, don't know all of them here in Germany :thumbs:

By the way, bad72ss, didn't Mallet put a total other tranny on his V8 engines?

 

[Robotech]

I'm almost certain they do. This is why I'm keeping a watchfull eye towards those Han Turbo cars and see how their transmissions hold up.