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Prayers for the innocent there in San Bernardino. Apparently now away from the initial shooting at the holiday party at the medical center the City Hall and nearby businesses are on lockdown. BOLO for a black GMC Yukon, 3 occupants, tagged to one Sayeed Farook. Armed and dangerous.
 

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News conference going on now. Apparently all local government offices are closed now and hospitals have increased security. No mention of a person of interest from these officials. Local scanner chatter earlier brought up a name, unconfirmed.
 

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Farooq Saeed has been identified as the possible San Bernardino shooting suspect, who reports indicate walked into a medical facility for people with developmental disabilities and opened fire.


The shooting took place at close to 11 a.m. in the 1300 block of South Waterman Avenue in the California city, taking place at a building identified as the Inland Regional Center. The facility is a state-run medical center that serves people with developmental disabilities, said Nancy Lungren, spokeswoman for the California Department of Developmental Services.


Unconfirmed reports identified the suspect as Farooq Saeed, a name repeated on police scanners and reported from some American news outlets.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Yeah, they'll hold on to that fake motive like a pitbull with a hambone.


Main perp here had an issue with
a Christmas Party ?
:barf: allahakbar
Having experienced a workplace shooting I can tell you first hand there is no rhyme or reason for why and when such things occur. Just one wrong thing said on the wrong day and things like this happen.

HOWEVER

I truly feel that, when the investigation is over, we'll find that this individual had been planning SOMETHING for some time but that whatever occurred at this event triggered him to act now instead of later and to focus his violence on the coworkers who upset him. While I do not doubt that whatever happened yesterday morning is what set him off and caused these actions to play out, you don't just "happen" to have a couple assault rifles, tactical vests, and a half dozen pipe bombs just sitting around.
 

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Nothing happened at the Christmas Party. People who were there just noticed that he had disappeared leaving his coat on his chair. The attack was obviously pre-planned well in advance. He just showed up to check out security etc, which was apparently nonexistent.
 

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Nothing happened at the Christmas Party. People who were there just noticed that he had disappeared leaving his coat on his chair. The attack was obviously pre-planned well in advance. He just showed up to check out security etc, which was apparently nonexistent.
Even if there wasn't an argument or something at the party, this would STILL be workplace violence as he targeted his coworkers at a work related event. The question is, why there? Why now? Why leave and come back 30 minutes later? To go to his house and get what he needed? With that black SUV he could have had all that at the location. To drop off his 6 month old child? Possibly but then why not take care of that in the morning before going to the party rather than going to the party first and then dropping the child off?

Come to think of it, I have yet to here WHEN the child was dropped off with the grandparent. THAT would be the biggest clue as to the premeditation of the timing of the attack. If the child was dropped off in the morning, then Farook planned the shooting before going to the party. If the child was dropped off in the time between him leaving the party and the shooting, then I would be more inclined to believe that while he had prepared for something like this already, the time and place of the assault had been more spontaneous.

No, the facts that we know point to some kind of friction between Farook and his coworkers. The friction was there LONG before this party.
 

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Thanks for the new thread

Stated grandmother of the infant claims that they dropped her off in the morning because they had doctor's appointments to go to. The time between his leaving the party and returning has not been determined exactly but during a presser last night it was stated as about fifteen minutes. His partner was likely outside with the car, now described as a Ford Expedition rental. He and his supposed wife had acquired some 2,200 rounds of pistol ammo and 5,900 rounds for their rifles. Oh there was likely some "friction" alright with his superiors; as extreme Moslems like him don't like to take orders from mere infidels.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The time frame I heard was 30 but knowing they dropped the infant off in the morning that would put it before the party.

There still needs to be more information here. This isn't a "terrorist" attack in the more traditional sense. I don't feel the motivation here was religiously based. This is more workplace violence by a person of the Muslim faith but just how much that faith played into the nature of the violence is what remains to be seen.

If this were a straight up terrorist attack then we'd be seeing some organization laying claim to it. The media is quick to report that but again, I've seen nothing of the sort in the news stories I've read. I'm actually surprised some group HASN'T laid claim to it even if they had no connection to it. Usually some of the more minor players are quick to jump on something like this.

So until we get more information I can't say that this was the act of an Muslim extremist. A person with horrible confrontation management skills that happens to be Muslim, yes, but not an extremist like those that shot up Paris.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Couple of new facts.

They did have ties to people with known extremist views.

They found 6,000+ rounds of ammo and 12 IEDs in the couple's apartment in Redlands.

SUV was rented 4 days ago.

I suspect they may have been inclined to start a mini Paris style attack but for as much as they had prepared with supplies, the execution of it still seems very VERY amateurish especially compared to the coordinated attacks in Paris and even 9/11. If anything I'd say this was more like the "lone wolf" scenario that had been talked about before so prevalently. I'm still getting that vibe that there was something about his attitude towards his co-workers and that something "rushed" his plans that is giving me this that feeling.

Also found out one of my office coworkers (My actual office...we only have a handful of employees in my office...we're like a small extended family) and her husband had attended high school with Farook. Damn, talk about your small worlds.
 

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I have done threat and vulnerability analyses for 40 years. In my opinion this clearly was a terrorist attack.

Terrorism is not uniquely linked to religious motives. But . .

He went to the Haj where he met his wife.

He AND his wife trained, prepared and executed this attack.

He always had a beard but after returning from Saudi with his wife and child he started letting it grow out long.

They wore masks in order to remain anonomous and to give them a sense of power.

They rented the big SUV so they could carry their supplies and execute the preplanned attack.

The attack was planned to use a remote control car that would carry pipe bombs into the facility. When the bombs detonated, the mass of people would run out of the building and mill about in the parking lot, making the lot a target rich environment

They would then execute a drive by firing their semi-autos out the window to take out as many as they could.

They were carrying several reloads and were planning on burning through several magazines doing a show driveby.

Then they were going to go home and get rid of the rental car which was due to be turned in the same day as the attack.

They were then going to act normal, go pick up their kid and he would return to the party, shocked to learn that there had been an attack.

They were not prepared for the response they got. They believed they had more time.

The attack was amatuerish because they had virtual training but no hands on training from people who knew what they were doing.

considering their level of expertise and their level of training they were pretty effective.

You dont drive down a residential street in your SUV with your young lovely wife at your side and engage in a shoot out with professionals unless you want to be DRT.

They were both made DRT as a result of them firing about 10 rounds and receiving ~400 rounds of incoming.

He and his wife did not get into a casual argument with the people at work and then just decide to load up and go to war.

This was a planned attack. It came at the Christmas party where a bunch of caring, loving Americans were gathered together to celebrate the season. It was perfect for them to execute an attack. It started as a target of opportunity and turned into an excellent one. So they executed the attack as a deliberate, planned terrorist attack

And I quote:

"Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191"

"Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216"

"If you should die or be killed in the cause of Allah, His mercy and forgiveness would surely be better than all they riches they amass. If you should die or be killed, before Him you shall all be gathered. - 3:157-8"

"You must not think that those who were slain in the cause of Allah are dead. They are alive, and well-provided for by their Lord. - Surah 3:169-71"

"Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of God, whether he is slain or victorious, soon we shall give him a great reward. - Surah 4:74"

"But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. - 4:89"

"Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme - 8:39"

"It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. - 8:67"

"When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5"

"Allah has purchased of their faithful lives and worldly goods, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for His cause, kill and be killed. - 9:111"

"When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.47:4"
 

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I have heard about the rewards that come to those who die in battle for Allah but never gave it a lot of creedence. But here it is

"KORAN promises of houris in heaven:

Single-minded slaves of Allah... will be honored in the Gardens of delight, on couches facing one another; A cup from a gushing spring is brought round for them, white, delicious to the drinkers, wherein there is no headache nor are they made mad thereby. And with them are those of modest gaze, with lovely eyes, pure as they were hidden eggs. - Surah 37:40-49

Lo, for those who ward off evil is a happy journey's end, Gardens of Eden, whereof the gates are opened for the, wherein, reclining, they call for plenteous fruit and cool drink therein. And with them are those of modest gaze, companions. This it is that ye are promised for the Day of Reckoning. - 38:50-54

Lo! Those who kept their duty will be in a place secure, amid gardens and water-springs, attired in silk and silk embroidery, facing one another.... And we shall wed them unto fair ones with wide, lovely eyes. They call therein for every fruit in safety. They taste not death therein, save the first death. And He hath saved them from the doom of hell, a bounty from thy Lord. That is the supreme triumph. - 44:51-57

Lo! Those who kept their duty dwell in gardens and delight... reclining on ranged couches. And we wed them unto fair ones with wide, lovely eyes... and we provide them with fruit and meat such as they desire.... - 52:17-22

...Reclining upon couches lined with silk brocade, the fruit of both the gardens near to hand.... Therein are those of modest gaze, whom neither man nor jinni will have touched before them.... - 55:54-56

Those are they who will be brought nigh, in gardens of delight... reclining therein face to face. There wait on them immortal youths... and fair ones with wide, lovely eyes, like unto hidden pearls, reward for what they used to do.... Lo! We have created them a creation, and made them virgins, lovers, friends. - 56:11-37
(Different translation) Companions with beautiful, big and lustrous eyes... virgin-pure and undefiled."

 

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Discussion Starter #20
Terrorism is not uniquely linked to religious motives.
Very true. The fact though he chose to go after the very people he worked with just seems to make this a bit different. Every other kind of attack like this we've seen has usually been against targets that were not directly tied to the attackers like this one was. I believe that is what has made me feel there are other motivational factors...that said...

He always had a beard but after returning from Saudi with his wife and child he started letting it grow out long.

They wore masks in order to remain anonomous and to give them a sense of power.

They rented the big SUV so they could carry their supplies and execute the preplanned attack.
This stuff is red flag enough but...

The attack was planned to use a remote control car that would carry pipe bombs into the facility. When the bombs detonated, the mass of people would run out of the building and mill about in the parking lot, making the lot a target rich environment

They would then execute a drive by firing their semi-autos out the window to take out as many as they could.

They were carrying several reloads and were planning on burning through several magazines doing a show driveby.

Then they were going to go home and get rid of the rental car which was due to be turned in the same day as the attack.

They were then going to act normal, go pick up their kid and he would return to the party, shocked to learn that there had been an attack.
This is all new stuff that I haven't heard. I did hear the bombs were outside the building with a "crude remote detonation" device attached. I believe the story I read speculated that they would set it off after the finished the attack. If, indeed, it was planned the way you state RtE, then a lot of what happened would make sense.

They were not prepared for the response they got. They believed they had more time.

The attack was amatuerish because they had virtual training but no hands on training from people who knew what they were doing.
It seems though that if the plan was to detonate the bomb then attack as people rushed outside that the reason I'm getting this rushed and amateurish feeling is because the first part of that plan failed. The bomb didn't go off (no matter what role in the plan it played) and the shooters entered the building instead. If their plan started off on the wrong foot, due to lack of proper training or just a Mr. Murphy moment, then they started to improvise and that improvisation is what I am picking up on.

You dont drive down a residential street in your SUV with your young lovely wife at your side and engage in a shoot out with professionals unless you want to be DRT.

They were both made DRT as a result of them firing about 10 rounds and receiving ~400 rounds of incoming.
This is what also gave me the feeling of it being amateurish. For the level of preparation and the supplies they had with them it seems like something went wrong with their bomb making abilities or their ability to deploy them.

He and his wife did not get into a casual argument with the people at work and then just decide to load up and go to war.
No, there definitely was planning involved that much is very certain now. Early information left out the facts of the rental vehicle, when it was rented, and details over why he left the party.

This was a planned attack. It came at the Christmas party where a bunch of caring, loving Americans were gathered together to celebrate the season. It was perfect for them to execute an attack. It started as a target of opportunity and turned into an excellent one. So they executed the attack as a deliberate, planned terrorist attack
While part of this I certainly agree with, the part I DON'T understand and what makes this different from the many other terrorist attacks we've seen are two things:

1. They attacked people they knew on a personal level. These were coworkers, people he interacted with...even if just exchanging pleasantries...on a daily basis.

2. The group of people, other than being coworkers, did not have any significance. What I mean is all terrorist attacks we've seen up to this point have had SOME reason why the target was made more sensational by it's importance. The WTC were considered by many to be iconic to American capitalism and the Pentagon the "brain" of our military might. Paris had attacks against a stadium hosting a major international soccer match that had the President of the country in attendance and had great coordination between multiple teams with multiple targets including a sold out concert. Closer to home, the bombings in Boston were carried out during the Boston Marathon, a major public event for that city.

This was a work party. Granted they were government workers but it's not like he was targeting the mayor, the governor or the President. There was no reason why this target held any more importance to the public at large, and thus making a bigger political statement for the attackers, than any other workplace violence.

Perhaps it was the fact that these two WERE amateurs that caused the target to differ than other terrorist targets in the way it was chosen but the fact remains that this target selection was VERY different than what we've seen in the past. Two things are fact though. This was a planned attack by folks who seem to have connections to terrorist networks and it was a case of violence in the workplace.

The question becomes which of these two categories will wind up being the primary factor and which one will be secondary. Is this a terrorist who planned a terror attack at home and just decided to use his workplace Christmas party as a convenient target or is this someone who carried grudges against the people he worked for and decided to take revenge on those who he considered wronged him and did so in a most elaborate fashion?

I feel if we find they had planned to go after other targets after this one had the IEDs they brought with them worked as designed, then it is a terrorist act just with a very different selection process for the primary target. If we find out there were no other targets planned after this one, then it is more of a revenge attack against his coworkers.
 
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