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Saturn Redline versus Mazda Miata

14K views 53 replies 18 participants last post by  mstrjon32 
#1 ·
Former Miata guy here. Owned a 2000 SE Miata for 14 years. Put about 50,000 miles with no issues at all. I sold her 5 years ago. Now looking for another convertible roadster.
When the Sky came out it caught my eye like a pretty girl walking down the street. I like the body much more than the Pontiac Soltis.
So I am semiretired and looking around. Online the information on the Saturn Sky Redline is dated, with some down right scary about the car. So I came to this site to get a read on the vehicle.
Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated at this time. Probably to get serious about buying something late spring, early summer next year.
Thank you in advance.
Rich
Located in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania.
 
#2 ·
you prob don’t need worry but know that the water pump in warm climates IS the Achilles heel for the entire platform. 50-75k miles per new water pump in the hot Texas heat. I’ve gone through 4 on 2 different RL’s. Too Few of the paint codes are tri coat. ZERO practical storage. After market vendors are becoming few and far between as time passs on. The Pontiac solsticeOwners push their cars seemingly harder than sky owners. the NA base models you can find sick deals if you are not after turn key performance from the Redline. Those same base models are still capable platform if u want to pursue forced induction. Almost no one has roll bars because it must be welded and will not be removable/easily.

great community. tons of resources. people think the car is worth alot more than it is. the turbo is tons of fun and tons of performance room to grow with only bolt ons and EASY so EASY ecu tuning. Great driting because stock suspension is quality ( Redline). Stock monsoon sound system is awesome (Redline). car designed by Lotus, platform proven on the Nurburing. Very affordable purchase price point. Brakes are solid great if not doing auto cross. American car pretty easy to work in DIY. Some parts are easily available from gm parts bin, like the G5,G6,cobalt,astra,vue
 
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#3 ·
Welcome to the forum.

My first thought is that you should get serious about looking much sooner than that, like maybe now. It may take some time to find what you are looking for, and spring/summer is the worst time to buy, unle you like paying top dollar. Fall/winter is when sports cars and convertibles are in people's way and you can get better deals.

Cruise the forum, there is a lot here. When you can't find specific information with a search, ask questions.
 
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#6 ·
Honestly, the best is simply to test drive one. IMO the character is very different. A lot more power (redline at least), quite a bit more weight, but much wider tires and same wheelbase, for all intents and purposes. Engine on redline is coarse and a virtually flat power curve vs a typical NA peak at higher RPMs. The sky is nowhere near as scalpel sharp as a miata, but to butcher the metaphor, it's a sharp chisel. A corvette is a BFH on the same scale.

I think a lot of folks inevitably want to equate them since they are both 2 seat same-size roadsters, which makes sense in theory, but I feel that is a poor comparison. Choose which you like better. Common issues already covered above, and agree that it may take some time to find one you like as these are getting thin.

Source of comparison: Driven handful of miatas (NA-NC), the 124 abarth, owned and rallycrossed an rx8 for about 4-5 years.
 
#9 ·
Source of comparison: Driven handful of miatas (NA-NC), the 124 abarth, owned and rallycrossed an rx8 for about 4-5 years.
The issue for me is searching on Cargru I only found 1 about 30 minutes away from me. However, it's an automatic transmission. Other than that it's a hike to drive one.

It's good to hear from someone that has driven the Miata, Sky and Spider 124 as that's my list. Both Spider and Sky seem to have alot of automatic transmissions.
 
#7 ·
I have1 2008 RL with original water pump and 94,000 miles. Bought it with 52K on the clock. I have the Trifecta tune on it and dont drive it with kid gloves. I hesitate to mention this because Carma tends to jump up and bite you in the butt. I am mentioning it because not ALL water pumps go out at 40K. I have thought of draining and refilling the cooling system with something other than Dextrol, but am truly afraid o touch the thing for fear of changng a good system that has lasted, in my posession, for 4 years and has never even needed burping. If it aint broke, dont fix it! And I am in South Texas and the highest water temp I have ever seen is 204F even when OAT is well over 110F. So just know, WP doesnt always fail.......but after sying this, mine probably will tomorrow.
 
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#8 · (Edited)
I have 3 Saturn Sky's with various milages. Two are located in Florida and one in Maryland. Don't believe that the water pumps go bad more often than in other vehicles. 160k on one 120k on another and 70k on the third all with original water pumps. The pumps can be difficult to change because of the concealed chain. But not more difficult than for instance a Honda Civic where you have to pull the wheel hub which ruins the bearing that must be pressed out and replaced with a new one. Then you can remove the harmonic balancer to get to the water pump bolts.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Fun, maybe,but is it any faster? You can sit in the car with the windows closed and the engine OFF, stick your tounge between your lips and say...Bzzzzz, Bzzzz, and all you need is a windshield wiper on the inside. Is it Fun, I dont know, but is it any faster. ??
When the computer can outshift me i dont need any engine wearing zoom, zoom. just to feel manly. I will do that in my XKE that has a stick.....but cant hold a candle to the RL.
 
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#14 ·
In 2007 the car-media compared the cars and suggested that the Miata/Sky/Solstice are in the same overall category.

Not true. A Kappa is much bigger.

Unless you just want a commuter car I recommend paying extra for the Redline.

Otherwise you might find yourself putting a lot of money into the car customizing it.

(Although I did that and I'm really happy with my car.)

The car industry overall has transitioned to trucks and SUVs.

Cars like ours aren't so easy to come by.

You can buy a new Miata - and you'd love it . They are REALLY NICE.

But it will cost much more than an older Sky or Redline.

At as low as 6K you can purchase a Redline out right - with no financing.

Evan at 13K for a mint condition redline you're getting a great deal.

The resale values of the Sky have held constant for about the last 3 years.

I predict this will remain to be he case.

I agree with the other posters ... I wouldn't let concern about water pump repairs impact your decision on whether to get a Sky.

Due to it's limited storage space - I'd recommend getting something other than a Sky as a beater 2nd car.
 
#17 ·
I really like the look of the Sky. Also the RL makes sense to purely from performance perspective.
I'm not a Corvette type of guy. I prefer the practical useable performance of the Miata and the Sky. Both are in the sports car arena but have a convertible top. Win Win to me.
 
#19 ·
How much power will the auto handle without premature failure? If memory serves, the GM tune bumped the manual to 290 HP/340TQ but the auto only got 290/290. I always figured, without any sort of backup, that this wasn't coincidental.
 
#22 ·
You are correct that there is no manual shift option with the automatic in a Kappa.

I don't understand your meaning of "Huge miss on GM's part" though. I can understand it on a personal level, if you really want that option and can't get it, but as a business decision it certainly wasn't bad since GM sold every car they could build, usually with a waiting list and frequently with significant dealer markups.

Absent the recession, GM's bankruptcy, and the demise of the Kappa along with Saturn and Pontiac, Kappa2 in 2012 would have likely been much different from the Kappa that we got starting in 2005. It is unfortunate that we didn't get to see the evolution.
 
#23 · (Edited)
My 2 cents worth... after reading our OP search replacement for the Miata plus our varying owners
opinions of our gem in hiding.

Apples to Apples since it is apple picking season right now around me just say'n.
These two cars are not the same, and yet they are compared against one another in the car culture world.
Was this GM original intention with the Kappa?
The foreign fighter for the good ole USA? Maybe.
Was the Kappa for us the buying public consumer of said products out of Detroit? Maybe.
An alternative to the Corvette option? Maybe. Cost & development of the Vette over the last 70 years has produced a world class car, but... with 3 years in the works for our car... the results vary.
Still top down fun for little cost-mostly. 2nd car option, mid life crisis, she got everything in the divorce but,... I got the Sky.

THE Miata. Years and generations of development. Our car... not so much. Zoom Zoom when you make a boat load of cars, you do fix a lot of problems in your production run lifetime. As time goes on-so does the development of the product, IF you want to stay in business with the consumer and their money.

SO- is it apples to oranges comparison here then? Maybe.
Miata: Small light nimble. Race class winners. Billion cars sold sort of. Affordable. Reliable. Scalpel with intent applied when meeting asphalt surfaces.
Almost bullet proof, for everyday DD to weekend warrior.

* I have watched Mazda/Miata classes race at Summit Point Motorsports Park over the last 30 years.
They are always there when racing against each other with 48 cars-which Miata is gonna win this?
They hold their own when racing against other cars/classes.
In our group at Turn 5 we have a few drivers one or two who are Miata owners who do race the course, that offer their opinions to how they race each other and other cars.

" In my car, I can run pretty much flat out, except for one or two lifts of the throttle, little braking involved point it in the direction you want to go" The guys in our group are... critics when we see bad driving and applaud when you drive it like you just stole it.


The Kappa. Little to some development. Short history & production run. Affordable-can be. Reliable-mostly.
Little bigger than the Miata, little heavier weight wise too. Race class winners?-
Ah yeah SSB in SCCA.
Cars sold under 100K. Steel chisel when applied to asphalt road surfaces-she has a bite, she has get up & go she can do the little things with style.
Everyday DD? Yes it can be done.

* The Sky/Solstice is a Miata sort of on steroids for the economy drop top cruiser.
It can be cheap and affordable to run/operate. It can be expensive as hell to fix/operate just like any car on the market can be. I went for a good cruise in my car yesterday. Attracted tons of attention on a Holiday weekend here. Pull up to any stop light...
see a Miata there? Most likely. See a Sky/Kappa anywhere? Bet not is my guess.
Exclusive is what our car is when compared to the Miata. They are both fun cars for what they are- and imho they are two different cars.

I wanted a Sky because it was not another Miata like on the road I see everyday in my travels. Is it better than a Miata? Maybe. Maybe not.

* LAC Films U-Tube update. Of all my in car dash cam videos I have posted-the one video I posted recently has gotten the most views lately- Buddy the Bald Eagle.
Eagle Talon I remember that car. 4 wheel drive. Turbo.

" A Sky with paddle shifters and an LS3-V8- Corvette like" This was what GM was afraid of-a small go getter drop top fun ass car that Americans would enjoy and could afford.
Route 66 with a V8 but not the cost of a Corvette.

Safe driving out there gang. Holiday nuts on the hwy- had 3 cars blow me at 95 mph. Me-84. Police? They were hiding.
Got re-stitch my top again above the passenger window, about 6-8 inches worth today. The factory seams are almost shot. Time for a new top in the Spring I think. Finding the right shop to install it? That is the problem for me around here. Might have to go down to D.C. ?- for installation of fabric to frame.

LAC
 
#27 ·
My take always so far in my search:

1. I priced out a 2020 Miata ND-2 Sport with base model. no real options. The price is $25,500. Good price but not great. Black exterior and black cloth interior.

2. Financially the 2020 Mitata is currently a no go for now.

3. I like the Sky looks greatly over the Miatas, NC, from the same time period.

4. I really like the idea of buying a used Sky that has depreciated to $8,000 - $12,000.

5. The local Sky, not a RL, with automatic, has 9,800 miles on it. The current asking price from the dealer is $15,000. It's high as they must think they have gold.

6. Buying vehicle from a american company that went out of businesses scares the hell out of me.
 
#28 ·
6. Buying vehicle from a american company that went out of businesses scares the hell out of me.
Gm didn't go out of business, sure one of its brands was killed off but that doesn't mean you local gm dealer doesn't know how to work on the car. The engine was shared with other gm vehicles so parts are a plenty.
 
#32 ·
Miata guy, You need to drive a Redline with an automatic and use the I gear. It controls first to third and will not shift higher. It will Redline in every gear if you have the guts to do it in the twisties. You can shift to fourth and fifth manually.

As Blue and Robotech say, it works quite well. I have never had any problems performance wise keeping up with the manuals, have owned a Mallett V8 Manual, with tons of horsepower, and would take the auto Redline over it in every single situation other than sound.
 
#33 ·
Welcome to the Forum!
Congrats on looking at the Sky Roadster - great car!

The only comparison on an apples-apples basis is the Miata to the Sky NA. Not the RL. That is not a comparison.
I highly recommend getting the RL unless you are looking for something similar to the Miata and then the Sky NA is still the better option.

Good luck and it depends on if you want a Sunday easy cruise car or a sporty jumping fast and acceleration sports car. The SKY NA in the first instance or the SKY RL in the latter
 
#36 ·
@Miata-guy , have you driven a Sky yet? You may have said whether you have, but if you did I missed it.

Before you get too deep into looking for the right one a test drive would be a really good idea.

The Sky to me is a much more desirable car than the Miata, but it is not a better car, and in many ways it isn't as good even. The Miata is much easier to live in and live with with better ergonomics, an easier top, and more luggage space. That said, I will never own one, and truly love my Skys.
 
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#37 ·
John,
No I haven't driven one yet. But I on Thursday afternoon. I have a link to it just above. I will report my thoughts afterwards.
Disclaimer:
1. I have only owned one American car. When I first got out of college 40 years ago. Ford Pinto
2. My mechanic for the past 20 years or so bought a new Cadillac in 2013. He has had so many problems with it. He now says he cannot recommend a GM product.
 
#40 ·
I'll reference my thoughts on the two from shortly after I bought my sky.
After almost 2 years of ownership, I'd say these thoughts/impressions still apply, and I've only grown to enjoy the Sky more:


I still have yet to do the modifications I mentioned but I did give it a basic tune from RPM and added a throttle controller (mine's a hikeit, similar to the sprint booster) which is on a low setting

On the topic of paddle shifters - I tried them on the miata - and it made the miata more interesting, but ultimately seemed like too much thinking. If I want to shift I have a motorcycle for that 🙃 I have gotten accustomed to the D-4-I modes of the sky and it gives me pretty good control over how I want the transmission to behave.

On build quality - it probably won't be as nice as you're used to with your old Miata (at least if my experience with my Mazda is relevant). For me it has mostly been small things that seem to give out earlier than I expect, but then I have to remind myself it is a 12 yr old car, so maybe not. Engine and drivetrain components seem to be solid, aside from the aforementioned water pump.

There's also definitely a lot of quirks with this car - having to make sure the doors are closed when closing the hood, the placement of the battery, needing lifting pucks, proper use and care of the top. I've embraced them as I love the styling and uniqueness of the car.

The biggest downside for me is that I want to baby the car so it lasts me longer...

Good luck on your test drive!
 
#47 ·
Well at least GM agrees with all the manual guys, you can buy one in the new Corvette. Ferrari, Lambo, Bugatti, Alfa and a host of real new age sports cars do not come with sticks. Paddle shifters does not qualify as a stick, no clutch.

And yes I would take paddle shifters over a stock Kappa auto.
 
#49 ·
Paddle shifters are a joke unless the only thing you want to do is drive in a straight line.
Well....I sure don't consider Formula 1 to be driving in a straight line, and they use paddle shifter actuated sequential gearboxes. But I agree that paddle shifters on a car today are more often than not a novelty, sometimes in an effort to make a humdrum car seem more interesting than it is. Several of the modern American muscle cars are also using them.
 
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