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rjgramps,

sounds like an idea. Maybe I'll use a multimeter on the contacts as well. I will post images if I manage to sort the fog switch issue!

I live in Athens. My mother in law is from Volos! I visit Volos almost every summer. Of cource I know Vefa, she's a star!

Halkidiki is a very nice place to be! I hope you had a good time. Where do you live? I am planning a business trip to New York at the end of the year. You don't have to be Greek! Just own a Kappa! :)
 

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Question- the TSB states that models affected include:

2007 Saturn Sky Built Prior to VIN Breakpoint 7Y102344

My daily driver is: 7Y112798 and I have this issue.

Does this mean that the VIN Breakpoint above was an estimate and that ‘08 and newer do not have this issue… or is the VIN portion of ‘Models affected‘ to be ignored and all Kappas function with this issue from factory?

 

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Question- the TSB states that models affected include:

2007 Saturn Sky Built Prior to VIN Breakpoint 7Y102344

My daily driver is: 7Y112798 and I have this issue.

Does this mean that the VIN Breakpoint above was an estimate and that ‘08 and newer do not have this issue… or is the VIN portion of ‘Models affected‘ to be ignored and all Kappas function with this issue from factory?

The date of that TSB is pretty close to when that breakpoint would have occured, so it means one of two things: The cars produced after that breakpoint already keep the IPC backlighting on all of the time, or there is a different TSB for the later cars.

The backlighting isn't really that bright, so having it on may not be enough for your particular situation. My '07 doesn't have it, and my '08 should, but they look pretty much the same to me. That said, I don't have trouble reading the gauges in either car.
 

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For anyone interested the voltage at the cluster is indeed 12V. :)
where on the cluster? Anywhere in the top where I can reach it without removing the cluster, by just lifting the top cover?
 

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Discussion Starter #67 (Edited)
Hi BlueRL,

You ask a good question.

To get the IP cluster out, I took off the big main black top surface which requires removing the trim all around the windshield. But I since learned that you can remove all the fasteners only on the driver's half and lift it enough to access the hardware that holds the IP cluster.

In my case, had I known that trick, I still would have completely disassembled everything because of my mild restoration process. I cleaned everything, inspected everything, glued back on the long gasket against the windshield, and replaced all the foam gaskets for the dash vents. A clean car yields a clean smelling car, so I took apart a lot specifically for cleaning and gasket-replacement purposes.

Anyone improving IP cluster illumination, it is their one opportunity to inspect all the dash board gaskets and such to carry them into the future. With age, the vent gaskets loose their "spring". Disturbing the dash board assembly could create forever-compressed gaskets in some of the vents could create a whistling sound which would surely be an irritation.

One exceptional benefit to removing the IP cluster, you can finally clean and polish the lens like new for a perfect clear crisp like-new look.

For Base model owners with poorly lit instrumentation, it is also an opportunity to replace the IP cluster face with one from BlackCatCustom. That face is so easy to swap out while addressing illumination. I replaced my Base face with my favorite design (slightly modified) from BCC and now can read the IP so much better, and is also aesthetically appealing to me. I found it very interesting how much more I enjoy driving our Sky with the redesigned IP. I no longer complain that I can't read the IP in the day with or without sunglasses on, and even at night. That was one of my favorite modifications.

Here some pictures I took along the way.

Original Base model, dim and hard to read at a glance.
113067

All original incandescent bulbs. The tach has the yellow bulb covers removed. It was an improvement, but I needed a lot more.
113068

113069

113071

113072

Here is my new face with the same incandescent lighting......better but not good enough.
113070

Original face below the custom-made face from BlackCatCustom. With the LED back-light kit, it cost me $165, a bargain for the results I got.
Worth noting, I requested the odometer lens be different to light up as shown farther below. From orange to aqua, the odometer does not clash with the rest of my interior.
113073

One little extra tid-bit benefit to note is the symbol that indicates the trunk is open. The BCC version accurately represents a Sky, not a generic open-trunk symbol.
113074

Here is the BCC LED back-light kit installed on the IP's PCB. Note the natural color of the odometer display.
113078

All assembled, here is my IP cluster today. Within 24 hours, I will post a picture specific to the IP including the odometer color. I have to wait til dark.
113077
 

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The date of that TSB is pretty close to when that breakpoint would have occured, so it means one of two things: The cars produced after that breakpoint already keep the IPC backlighting on all of the time, or there is a different TSB for the later cars.

The backlighting isn't really that bright, so having it on may not be enough for your particular situation. My '07 doesn't have it, and my '08 should, but they look pretty much the same to me. That said, I don't have trouble reading the gauges in either car.
After 12 years of ownership, It’s instinct now for me to tap the fog light switch right after I start the car. It’s engrained into my DNA.

I’ve always had this TSB in the back of my mind and I suppose one day I’ll swing by the dealer and see how much they‘d charge to make this happen.

Question- does this TSB change anything from the ECM? Meaning, if I had a Trifecta tune, would this reflash my system to stock or are they two unrelated areas?
 

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After 12 years of ownership, It’s instinct now for me to tap the fog light switch right after I start the car. It’s engrained into my DNA.

I’ve always had this TSB in the back of my mind and I suppose one day I’ll swing by the dealer and see how much they‘d charge to make this happen.

Question- does this TSB change anything from the ECM? Meaning, if I had a Trifecta tune, would this reflash my system to stock or are they two unrelated areas?
I'll start by saying I don't know.

If done correctly it should be a BCM-only flash, which would not affect your tune.
See the "Important" note in the "Correction" paragraph of the TSB.
 

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One little extra tid-bit benefit to note is the symbol that indicates the trunk is open. The BCC version accurately represents a Sky, not a generic open-trunk symbol.
You can thank me for that one. I created that icon using a draw program (see my avatar image) and worked with BlackCat to convert it into a format they could use. Afterwards, I gave them permission to use it on any Sky/Solstice face they created.

 

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Maybe I am crazy.....no, really no doubt about it...... but to get to the cluster on my 08 I just have to slide the curved cover toward the windshield and it unlocks and comes off so that I have access to the top of the cluster. No need to remove the cluster. No removing the top of the dash or anything difficult. In fact it is sitting in the passenger seat right now and has been for several weeks because in daylight the gauges are very visible. I am going to stick a band ot LEDs over the top of the cluster to light the gauges. Easy to do. Just need to know if any of those wires or solder joints on the exposed top of the cluster are 12V. If not I have to feed 12 V up from below. It would be nice if there was 12V on the top of the cluster that was switched my the headlights.
 

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I just looked at your pictures. The curved cover for the cluster does not come loose from the dash cover, does it? Mine does!!! Just a slotted hook and the top of the cluster is exposed!! Like removing the top of your skull to expose the brain for surgery.
 

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Discussion Starter #73
BlueRL, When you say "Curved Cover", do you mean the clear lens? Yes it comes out quite easily for polishing, and I suppose you could even remove the light bulb covers that way too, but doing LED mods, you need to remove the assembly.

Anyway, here is my IP gauge cluster today. The picture shows a bright haze, but I don't see but only a tiny bit with my eyes. It must be my phone greatly amplifying that.

Note the color of the odometer is no longer orange.
113079

Thanks Tomato Soup for the proper "trunk-is-open" indicator.
113080

Here is the IP with the interior. They coordinate extremely well together. I really need to do something about the orange radio and steering wheel lighting, and even the fog light switch. Having them converted would make it perfect.
113081
 

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no, I mean the curved dash top over the cluster. yours is continous from the dash top across to the other side of the dash top. Mine just slides forward and picks up off of the dash so I am looking down on the top of the undisturbed gauge cluster. The dash top doesnt have to be disturbed. Just the part that is over the cluster comes off.
 

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Discussion Starter #75 (Edited)
The dash top doesn't have to be disturbed. Just the part that is over the cluster comes off.
Interesting.

Sorry, Please Clarify. After you unsnap and remove what I call the IP hood, are you able to access the screws that attach the gauge tunnels to the main dash board? I never considered trying that.
 

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I dont think yours comes off unless I am misinterpreting that last photo. It looks like the "fabric" is continous across the top of the cluster. On mine there is a break where the dash turns up to go over the cluster and the dash comes apart at that point. It looks like half of a small water melon that just lifts off.
 

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I dont think yours comes off unless I am misinterpreting that last photo. It looks like the "fabric" is continous across the top of the cluster. On mine there is a break where the dash turns up to go over the cluster and the dash comes apart at that point. It looks like half of a small water melon that just lifts off.
I believe that what you are describing is a trick of the lighting.
 

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OK, well I can look right down into the top of the cluster ans light coming down from above illuminates the gauges nicely in the daytime which was my concern. I could always see them at nght. My plan is to put a strip of LEDs over the top of the cluster and run switchable 12v to it. I suspect, but have not yet mesaured, that somewhere on the top of that cluster there is some 12v available.
 

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Discussion Starter #79 (Edited)
I dont think yours comes off unless I am misinterpreting that last photo. It looks like the "fabric" is continuous across the top of the cluster. On mine there is a break where the dash turns up to go over the cluster and the dash comes apart at that point. It looks like half of a small water melon that just lifts off.
Though unclear in my pictures, mine is exactly as you describe yours to be. Maybe a good name for it would be the IP's baseball cap.

If you are thinking about adding top-down LED lighting on your gauges by adhering a strip of them on the top of the clear lens, that would make for an interesting and possibly simple modification.

When I bought my Sky, the previous owner covered up the lighting sensor with black electrical tape so all the lights would come on all the time, the sensor thinking it was night time. A well fitting black rubber boot covering that tiny dark dome on top of the dash would do the trick in tasteful fashion.

One thing certain, the style of the instrument panel, setting it deep at the end of the round tunnels, makes them darker and hard to read during the day without some kind of lighting assistance. I believe the factory Base IP is worse than the Red Line IP. I decided to get an easy to read one for my Base Sky from BCC. With the new gauge face, I can read the IP in daylight so much better, with or without my sunglasses. But even so, it's still not quite ideal.
 

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OK, Back to my original inquiry. Is there, under that "hood" a place where 12V is available? I already have a strip of LEDs that will do the job....if I can easily get power to them. If I cant then I will have to fish a pair of wires down under the dash to get power. Not working on it today, sitting out Hurricane Hanna. East eye wall past just south of us.
 
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