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Discussion Starter #21
Okay, so I thought I would post an update. The ignition switch issue was fixed in 2015, so that recall is not the issue. I started with testing voltage. The car had been off and sitting for 8 1/2 hours. 12.67v. Started it up. Voltage read 14.26. Turned on high beams and heater blower motor and AC, 13.82. Turned all off again. 14.16. Turned it off. Cleaned both grounds well with sandpaper. Cleaned both battery terminals well with sand paper. I can't get the positive battery terminal tight enough I am not able to move it with my hand. Removed every fuse and relay and put it back in. Decided to start it again and let it run on idle (As this morning it died in idle as well.) went to wash my hands. 3 min later, car has stalled. I managed to pull 3 codes with a cheap Canadian tire codereader. 2X p2105 and 1X p0324 (Knock control system) When restarting I again got service traction control, service ESC. ESC and traction control off. Engine power reduced.
I am at a loss here.
 

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I just duplicated your test and got essentially the same results, 13.9 V at idle with everything on.

Prior to that I did a test when I got home and had 12.5 V on both batteries, one after 48 hours, the other after a week, and 14.3 V charging at idle.

I think your battery and alternator are OK.

The bad news is:
P0324 : Control module has detected an internal fault. Replace the ECM.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
112862

So.. which one is it? My system says "Knock control system error" or is that the same thing?
And that actually doesn't seem too bad if it is the ECM. I have found several on ebay with a quick search for less then $100. Dealer reprogramming can't be more then another $100-$200.. At least we would have found the problem.
 

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So.. which one is it? My system says "Knock control system error" or is that the same thing?
And that actually doesn't seem too bad if it is the ECM. I have found several on ebay with a quick search for less then $100. Dealer reprogramming can't be more then another $100-$200.. At least we would have found the problem.
The P0324 code is identified as "Knock Control System Error".
The analysis given in the service manual is "Control module has detected an internal fault."
The repair procedure listed in the manual is "Replace the ECM."
 

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Discussion Starter #25
With all that is going on, that may make sense at this point. I will see if my buddys scan tool has the features to reprogram an ECM (Because I assume you can't just replace it, it needs to be programmed?) and call a few places around here.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Maybe I spoke too soon about being able to find it... I have found many that fit the 2.4.. But it seems hard to find the one to fit the 2.0. Do they happen to by chance be the same computer does anyone know? Or does anyone know a reliable source for them? Dealer wants $700 (CAN) for part alone.
 

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As far as i know they are different, but I have not done much work with them. I am not near a service manual, but I am fairly certain that it has to be programmed.
My only experience with changing one was when I supercharged my 2.4. DDM took the ECM to their local dealer to get it ready, then loaded their tune, and sent it to me.

A normal scan tool cannot reprogram any module. You need a Tech2 or equivalent, and (as far as I know) access to GM's network.
 

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I have an ’07 NA with many problems in the past (owned just less than 3 years). Similar in some ways. I don’t remember it throwing codes, but probably did. No start (not turning over) and gauges bottoming out and “bouncing”, along with security warning light on/chiming, mostly on acceleration. Sometimes I’d leave the windows down or the top down for 15 minutes and would start.

First time fix was the main battery ground to the firewall. Cleaned well and started right up. No gauge issues. Next time it happened I pulled and cleaned grounds throughout the car. Firewall, engine block, by e-brake, by headlights, some in the trunk (as I recall). Both the ECM and BCM have ground connections. I used an emery board and cleaned all the connections. Cleaning the ECM and BCM solved the problem.

Haven’t applied any dielectric grease on the grounds yet...may do that eventually.

It’s been written elsewhere in this forum that the car can be VERY finicky with respect to problems associated with bad grounds. I was about to invest in replacement parts and didn’t. I suggest investing first in a very thorough review of all ground points and the cleaning of same.

Please post your results. Good luck.
 

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First thing I would try is replacing the sensor.
Why do you suggest that?
As far as I can tell that is not suggested by the service manual, but it could be an error in the manual or in my reading. Do you have some other reference?
There are other knock sensor-related codes that involve the sensor and its wiring, and this one is pretty specific to the ECM.
 

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I can't argue with that. For $15 it may be worth checking to see if the diagnostics in the service manual are wrong.

It does remind me of the story of the kid looking for his ball in the yard, even though he lost it in the overgrown field next door, because it was easier.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Why do you suggest that?
As far as I can tell that is not suggested by the service manual, but it could be an error in the manual or in my reading. Do you have some other reference?
There are other knock sensor-related codes that involve the sensor and its wiring, and this one is pretty specific to the ECM.
So, i am in the process of trying to track down an ECM.. Found some on ebay but there seems to be conflicting information. Do the 2.0 and the 2.4 use the same ECM?
Some listings show an ECM what works with the 2.4 ONLY, and other listings show an ECM that works with both the 2.0 and 2.4.
 

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So, i am in the process of trying to track down an ECM.. Found some on ebay but there seems to be conflicting information. Do the 2.0 and the 2.4 use the same ECM?
Some listings show an ECM what works with the 2.4 ONLY, and other listings show an ECM that works with both the 2.0 and 2.4.
The 2.0 and 2.4 do not use the same ECM. - As Amorget posted while i was typing.

Rock Auto has the 12605038 for $276.79. It will require programming at either a dealer or a well-equipped mechanic's shop.
 

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Have you ever noticed that the dealerships change out the most expensive part first?
No, I have not had that experience.

I have found that the service manual usually indicates the most likely causes, and all other probable causes, when detailing the diagnostic procedure for a particular trouble code.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
The 2.0 and 2.4 do not use the same ECM. - As Amorget posted while i was typing.

Rock Auto has the 12605038 for $276.79. It will require programming at either a dealer or a well-equipped mechanic's shop.
Owch. That will hurt a bit more then I was hoping for.
Just wanted to double check a couple of things.. This is an intermittent problem. After this happened a couple of times, I drove likely 75 KM with no issues, and now its back to being a common thing. Last I tested, it wouldn't idle for even 3-4 min. So based on the fact it is intermittent, including all the additional information previously mentioned, how sure are we this is the ECM? Not trying to question anyone ability, I just don't wanna spend what will amount to about $750 after all is said and done on like a 50% chance kinda thing.
Or maybe I should ask. If it was YOUR sky. what would you do?
 

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Owch. That will hurt a bit more then I was hoping for.
Just wanted to double check a couple of things.. This is an intermittent problem. After this happened a couple of times, I drove likely 75 KM with no issues, and now its back to being a common thing. Last I tested, it wouldn't idle for even 3-4 min. So based on the fact it is intermittent, including all the additional information previously mentioned, how sure are we this is the ECM? Not trying to question anyone ability, I just don't wanna spend what will amount to about $750 after all is said and done on like a 50% chance kinda thing.
Or maybe I should ask. If it was YOUR sky. what would you do?
I'd trust John (well, the service manual) and just buy the PCM.
 
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