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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
(There's enough old farts on this forum that should know where that came from.)


TONS of misinformation on this forum and the others. I'll give you guys the facts here. Not information regurgitated from the web either, except for this link I'm gonna post to an informative and pretty objective report about the issue.

For now, watch this video. CNBC - Watch Full Episodes | CNBC | Failure to Recall: Investigating GM It explains quite a bit of it. Any other questions that you have post them here and I'll answer them with the real story.

A couple quick answers...

The dealership IS NOT supposed to give you back the old keys. It's a SAFETY recall and that's part of the repair. The dealer and/or tech is leaving himself up to HUGE liabilities if he gives the customer back the old keys.

It's the SWITCH that was the issue. The lock cylinders DO suck, and many, many have failed, that's why they're included in the recall. The new lock cylinders are the newer completely different design that's been used in many other cars for years.

The hole in the key is a factor, but not a huge one. I think part of the reason for the key replacement was to make it so weak that the hole in the key would pull apart first, like is shown in this video. The new keys look like something you'd buy at Walmart. (That part is my opinion, not substantiated facts.)

The old keys DO work in the new lock cylinders.

The new keys have to be learned to the theft deterrent system.
The new keys will work fine in the doors.

The recall takes about an hour, maybe two if the tech is slow. The bottom plastic part of the steering column trim cover is removed to gain access to the switch and lock cylinder. Nothing else is taken apart. The computer is not accessed, no codes are checked or should be set in the process.

You are entitled to a free rental. If you take the rental, you either have to leave your car at the dealership or in your driveway and CAN NOT drive it while you have the rental.

You have to call or go into the dealership to get parts ordered. Parts are ordered only by vin for the specific car. The lock cylinders are a generic part, they come uncoded. The keys also come uncoded. The dealership cuts the keys to your key code, accessed by your vin through the GM database. The tech codes the new lock cylinder to that same key code by putting the correct numbered tumblers into the new lock cylinder. The new lock cylinder is installed, the new keys learned to the cars theft deterrent system, the new ignition switch is replaced at the other end of the lock cylinder housing and away you go.

Gotta run, I'll check back here later. Hope this clears up some of the confusion and misinformation.

BTW, it sure would have been nice if the GM Customer Service people could have done this. Political Correctness and being so scared to say the wrong thing has made their role on these forums TOTALLY WORTHLESS. Sure, shuffling every response off to PM's is safer, but then what's the point of a PUBLIC forum? If they have to have a lawyer proofread every word they post online, they might as well not bother. That's too bad because they have a chance to give GM a friendly voice on the forums but choose to keep quiet and stay pretty much neutered instead.
 

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Excellent thread, gmt.

The only thing I would add is that there is now a self-service form for ordering the parts on the recall website here: https://www.gmignitionupdate.com/contact.html My dealer suggested it after I dragged my feet and ended up #235 on their list.
 

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Can the key count be reset to zero, before starting? I think that is going to put me closer than I want to be for max keys learned of 10.
 

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Good post. That link doesn't work though - plays the 30 sec. ad portion and then stops at a screen showing the story but fails to proceed.
 

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BTW, it sure would have been nice if the GM Customer Service people could have done this. Political Correctness and being so scared to say the wrong thing has made their role on these forums TOTALLY WORTHLESS. Sure, shuffling every response off to PM's is safer, but then what's the point of a PUBLIC forum? If they have to have a lawyer proofread every word they post online, they might as well not bother. That's too bad because they have a chance to give GM a friendly voice on the forums but choose to keep quiet and stay pretty much neutered instead.
Agreed. They are 100% worthless. Only posting "PM me details and ill see what we can do for you" is not an acceptable resolution to every scenario IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Good post. That link doesn't work though - plays the 30 sec. ad portion and then stops at a screen showing the story but fails to proceed.
Hmmm, the link works for me but it was a little hard to find the full video online. You could always just google search videos for "Failure to Recall". Either that or Bill you could try trading in that Tandy 2000 for something that works better for watching online videos. (lol, sorry, I couldn't resist!)


Anyone actually watch the video yet? I'm usually NOT a fan of shows like this, but this one was pretty objective and didn't seem to have a blatant agenda. Tests like a guy yanking on a keychain while another guy is driving can be made to look anyway you want it too, but the engineer testing switch turning forces with load cells and showing results on computer readouts is harder to make up or sensationalize. Also clearly showing the difference in the length of the switch detent pins is pretty conclusive and indisputable. And yes, they mentioned the drunk teen doing almost 3 times the speed limit, but rightly mentioned the role of the airbag. SHE caused the crash, but the airbag not going off certainly didn't help her odds of surviving. GM's job isn't to control drunk teens or stupidity, but their job IS to make the parts of the safety systems operate as designed.

BTW, about a year ago my son mentioned that his '08 Sky shut off when he was making a turn. He thought at the time "Gee, that shouldn't have done that". He had just moved his other car and had clipped the keychain from that car onto the Sky keychain. So the keychain was twice as heavy as he normally used it. Still only a couple keys and two remotes though. So that was literally one of the only times he had more than one or two keys on his keychain and he actually experienced the ignition switch turning to the accessory position while he was making a turn. Lucky for him, he was smart enough to know what to do in that situation. Many drivers don't, or don't have time to make the right decision or reaction.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Agreed. They are 100% worthless. Only posting "PM me details and ill see what we can do for you" is not an acceptable resolution to every scenario IMO.
Yeah it kinda defeats the whole power and advantage of a public forum. They help somebody in PM's and one person benefits. They post the information or help in a thread and the entire forum benefits. That's one of the reasons I don't correspond through PM's very often. If I have something to say, I don't care if anyone sees it. Information is power. GM's online/forum "Customer Service" is powerless because of that alone. It's really too bad because they could do a lot of good with the power in these and all the other car forums they stick their nose in. Sad to see the company that's capable of creating a ZR1 or CTS-V constantly shooting themselves in the foot.
 

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I had an occasion to have a virtual conversation with the GM executive that is leading the web effort and its really in a beta test mode currently. Their mission is as much monitoring what is said about GM online, since this is the new voice of many car buyers, and secondarily working toward identifying ways that they can respond to negative comments or perhaps shape the conversation in a more positive way. I applaud them for making the effort. It is far from where it needs to be but its miles ahead of other car builders.

I have seen instances where even while operating under their limited rules of engagement they have been a benefit to individual owners. Once an individual has been assisted by GM, they are free to share that experience with the forums and in some cases I have seen them do so.

:grouphug:
 

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(There's enough old farts on this forum that should know where that came from.)


TONS of misinformation on this forum and the others. I'll give you guys the facts here. Not information regurgitated from the web either, except for this link I'm gonna post to an informative and pretty objective report about the issue.

For now, watch this video. CNBC - Watch Full Episodes | CNBC | Failure to Recall: Investigating GM It explains quite a bit of it. Any other questions that you have post them here and I'll answer them with the real story.

A couple quick answers...

The dealership IS NOT supposed to give you back the old keys. It's a SAFETY recall and that's part of the repair. The dealer and/or tech is leaving himself up to HUGE liabilities if he gives the customer back the old keys.

It's the SWITCH that was the issue. The lock cylinders DO suck, and many, many have failed, that's why they're included in the recall. The new lock cylinders are the newer completely different design that's been used in many other cars for years.

The hole in the key is a factor, but not a huge one. I think part of the reason for the key replacement was to make it so weak that the hole in the key would pull apart first, like is shown in this video. The new keys look like something you'd buy at Walmart. (That part is my opinion, not substantiated facts.)

The old keys DO work in the new lock cylinders.

The new keys have to be learned to the theft deterrent system.
The new keys will work fine in the doors.

The recall takes about an hour, maybe two if the tech is slow. The bottom plastic part of the steering column trim cover is removed to gain access to the switch and lock cylinder. Nothing else is taken apart. The computer is not accessed, no codes are checked or should be set in the process.

You are entitled to a free rental. If you take the rental, you either have to leave your car at the dealership or in your driveway and CAN NOT drive it while you have the rental.

You have to call or go into the dealership to get parts ordered. Parts are ordered only by vin for the specific car. The lock cylinders are a generic part, they come uncoded. The keys also come uncoded. The dealership cuts the keys to your key code, accessed by your vin through the GM database. The tech codes the new lock cylinder to that same key code by putting the correct numbered tumblers into the new lock cylinder. The new lock cylinder is installed, the new keys learned to the cars theft deterrent system, the new ignition switch is replaced at the other end of the lock cylinder housing and away you go.

Gotta run, I'll check back here later. Hope this clears up some of the confusion and misinformation.

BTW, it sure would have been nice if the GM Customer Service people could have done this. Political Correctness and being so scared to say the wrong thing has made their role on these forums TOTALLY WORTHLESS. Sure, shuffling every response off to PM's is safer, but then what's the point of a PUBLIC forum? If they have to have a lawyer proofread every word they post online, they might as well not bother. That's too bad because they have a chance to give GM a friendly voice on the forums but choose to keep quiet and stay pretty much neutered instead.
This statement was NOT true at the DC area dealerships ==> you have to leave your car at each of the many dealerships that I checked with.
 

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(



BTW, it sure would have been nice if the GM Customer Service people could have done this. Political Correctness and being so scared to say the wrong thing has made their role on these forums TOTALLY WORTHLESS. Sure, shuffling every response off to PM's is safer, but then what's the point of a PUBLIC forum? If they have to have a lawyer proofread every word they post online, they might as well not bother. That's too bad because they have a chance to give GM a friendly voice on the forums but choose to keep quiet and stay pretty much neutered instead.
I think you're on target with this comment, especially about the lawyers.
 

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They work through PMs because each situation is unique. They have helped me.
Perhaps you could post a review of your experience?

I haven't heard of anyone actually being helped so it would be news to me, and im sure they would appreciate the thumbs up.

Also maybe give suggestions how to improve the process in the future.
 

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Thank you very much GMtech for all the clarification, I called my dealer who has had the parts on order for over a month now and I will be getting a Rental Vehicle in the meanwhile since I planned on taking this car on a road trip in which someone else would be driving it as well (would prefer not to let someone else drive with this recall out there and with the other issues the car has with the brakes.)
 

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Hmmm, the link works for me but it was a little hard to find the full video online. You could always just google search videos for "Failure to Recall". Either that or Bill you could try trading in that Tandy 2000 for something that works better for watching online videos. (lol, sorry, I couldn't resist!).
:D Actually I run a fairly current Pentium 3 GHz machine at the office, but a Tandy 2000 is probably worth more now than it was new! Afraid I don't have any Altairs sitting in the attic - seriously collectible now (I've seen the 8800 go for $2500 on Ebay). I started with computers in the late 1980s with dedicated word processors mated to a small processor, and then to a 286 with monochrome screen, and a seemingly endless series from there (still pissed off that Microsoft abandoned XP, which ran quite well, although Windows 7 is OK; 8 sucks, frankly).

But back to the subject - no, I wasn't able to find anything to watch other than a trailer of a minute and a half or so - if anyone comes up with another site for it, please post it.

My switch does not turn off when given a hearty tug, so I intend to leave it alone, but please confirm my impression that the problem was with pre 2009 (or possibly pre 2008) cars, and that they later included the later cars in the recall because there was at least a possibility that some of them might have received a 'bad' replacement switch as a service item?
 

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Question for all the folks that don't leave your car in the elements.

SC is known for storm cells and occasional hail storms... on one hand I feel good about getting a rental but on the other feel crappy about my car sitting outside at the dealership parking lot while they said it could be several months to get parts in (they are getting 50 in tomorrow but do not think any are the "security" type ones and would rather get me set up with the rental now)

The dealer wants the car dropped off to provide the rental, I want it safely stored in my garage... Has anyone had this problem?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Smartin-

Letting the customer leave the keys at the dealer and the car in their driveway is within the power of the individual dealership. In other words, the service manager can decide whether he wants to allow that or not. Our service manager does for the main reason that we just don't have the parking to store dozens of recall cars. Our GM Zone Rep has approved letting the customer store the car at home so I'm assuming others have the power to approve that also. Again, it's gonna be up to the service manager to either approve it himself or ask the zone rep for permission to let the customer store their car at home. The main goal is if the customer is in a GM paid for rental, that they don't drive their own car and get in a crash and then try to sue. At that point the liability would fall on whoever said it was ok for the customer to have access to their car while GM provided them with an alternative car. Basically if you feel the car is so unsafe you want GM to provide you with a safe one, you shouldn't be driving the unsafe one until it's repaired and the rental is returned.

Ruination- If you voice the concern that you're afraid your personal car that cannot be replaced may get damaged if it's stored at the dealership instead of your own garage, that's a pretty strong case to make to persuade the dealership to let you store at home. Just let them follow you home, you park the car in your garage and hand them the keys. They will then store the keys at the dealership. Again, if you voice your concerns, but they make you store the car at the dealership and it gets damaged, it's ALL on them. No dealership wants to take on more liability or headaches than they need to.

Bill-
Ha! I nailed that one! Pentium 3? That's a 15 year old computer! That's like driving an English or Italian car made in the 50's or 60's and expecting it to perform like a new one. Oh wait. Lol.
 

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Thanks GMtech. I just got home from the dealer. I advised the folks at the dealer that I would like to keep the car in my garage safe until they are ready to work on it. They completely understood knowing me and the car (my service writer that I took my car to in the past just got promoted to the service manager - even better news!)

What I was advised also is that in the letters - Additionally to the free loaner there is a special roadside assistance number to call for this Recall specifically for GM to pick up the tab on having the car towed to the nearest Authorized dealer so you don't even need to drive it to them for this recall.

I kept my keys, and they will have the roadside assistance come pick the car up and tow it in when the parts arrive. My neighbor is retired and can let them in my garage to tow it if I am traveling.

Enterprise provided me with a brand new Terrain with 10 Miles on it, all of which were from driving it over from the local Airport. It had the same fuel it came with from the factory..

 
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