Saturn Sky Forum banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
478 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The worst part about a new RL has to be that 500 mile break in period!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,381 Posts
One of the guy's who knows alot about cars and races them said on the Solstice forum no break in is needed on the Turbo's. I don't know how true this statement is. Can brentil or someone who knows for sure shed some light.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
One of the guy's who knows alot about cars and races them said on the Solstice forum no break in is needed on the Turbo's. I don't know how true this statement is. Can brentil or someone who knos for sure shed some light.
I would have to say that is false. I have a TDI Jetta (turbo Diesel) and even it needed a breakin. Being diesel it gets a bizzare breakin then a normal gas engine.
The turbo is not something you need to breakin. But the engine itself is still a normal gas engine. It still needs that tempering of that first 500 miles.
I would not take any chances.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
653 Posts
This is a sketchy subject area as I always hear different things. I will tell you that my ION Redline got dramatically better gas mileage the more it got broke in. I probably got between 18-22 mpg most of the time until I hit around 2000-3000 miles, then it came up to the standard 25-29. HOWEVER, that had nothing to do with how the car was driven, or how it was supposed to be driven during that time.

To 'break-in' a car, you need to drive it at varying speeds, and at varying RPMs. The worst thing you can do when you first get a car is be driving at a constant speed on the highway all the time, unless, you are constantly shifting gears as well (downshifting for the fun of it). Trust me, I did NOT baby my ION Redline at all when I first got it. Now it's at 58k miles, clutch still feels great. Engine has never run better.

Another thing, is that the 500 mile thing is typically for a car with standard oil. You have to give the new car plenty of time for all the seals and gaskets to settle in, and for the oil to really work it's way through the whole system. The SKY Redline uses Synthetic oil, which works totally differently. I've been told by someone I highly trust when it comes to cars, that on average it only takes about 25 miles for synthetic to work it's way throughout the engine.

No need to baby the Redline. Just get it out on the road, and do plenty of shifting. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
820 Posts
The reason you many different things on this subject is because different engines will get different results. Take for instance, if you fail to break-in a toyota or honda engine, you may not feel that much difference, because they are built so well, so one might get the impression that they did not need to break-in the engine because they didn't and the engine was fine. Typically a large engine with the older oiling tech will need a longer break-in then a four cylinder.
The Break-in period is to allow oil to get into all the nooks and crannies in the engine. Different engines have different ways to circulate the oil. Some just use the motion of the engine to pump oil, and others have oil coolers and a pump, etc.
Oil has a more difficult time getting throughout all the little channels of the engine when the engine is under a lot of pressure (under high RPM or turbo'ed/supercharged). This is why they use to say to keep the speed under a MPH with the older cars. Older cars did not have an overdrive gear for the highway and the result was high rpms at high speed. We no longer need to worry so much about high speed (as far as our engine break-in is concerned), but more so about high RPM and pressure.
With the RL, it will be a fourcylinder, but it will also be turbo'ed. I believe this engine uses a newer oild tech that sprays the oil onto the cylinders, but I could be wrong. My suggestion would be to avoid a lot of high rpm, and turbo engagement for, atleast the first 1500 miles, with an oil change at 1500 miles. The reason I would say this is because turbo engines tend to be under a lot of pressure which squeezes the oil from around the parts that need protection. The reason I say change the oil at 1500 miles is because one of he results of a new engine, is the metal debris that is being scratched off various new parts as they rub against each other for the first time. This debris can damage the engine if it is recirculated. I would say after the first 1500 that you could begin taking the rpms up to finalize the setting process I have heard that some valves and hydrolic parts (not sure if the RL has hydrolics) need the high rpms to set. By giving it through 1500 miles before taking it to high pressure and rpms, you have allowed the oil to get into every space in the engine and "soak in" for awhile. Also this allows the engine to have a clean filling of oil for when it shaves even more metal at the high rpms. Then the oil will be changed again by the dealer at 3000 (I believe this is the interval, I will need to check the manual). :thumbs:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
653 Posts
I know MANY people with the Supercharged ION Redline who did their first oil change at 3,000 miles, driving it pretty hard most of the time, and the oil came out crystal clean and clear. These ECOTEC engines are built to take beatings. Not saying you shouldn't go somewhat easy on it at least some. I think the main concern is that you are not always out running around at 5k RPM. Just make sure it's not up there much during the first few hundred miles.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
921 Posts
I do not want to start a holy war but the whole idea of breaking in an engine is not to get the oil spread thru the whole engine, it is to wear in the best possible seal between the cylinder walls and the piston rings.

That being said I am not an expert but I have always felt short runs where I push the car hard to be the best, ie push the car hard enough to really work the engine but do it for a short enough interval to minimize heat and related cylinder wall glazing.

You can probably find alot more sources on the net to give a more in depth ideas about breaking in a car engine.

Also note engines built today have the cylinder walls honed to a much finer finish and I think how you treat the engine during the first hour you drive it probably has a larger effect on engine and oil consumption for the rest of the cars life than almost anything else you do during the engine breakin period:thumbs:

Looked at from that standpoint a dealer demo unit with a few hundred miles on it might be the best possible engine breakin, since it would probably consist of many short 5 - 10 minute drives where the car is pushed hard, about perfect since it would be likely that the car would never really get a chance to completely warm up so there would virtually no cylinder wall glazing.:D

Of course then I would have to get a new car someone else had already driven :banghead:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
820 Posts
I know MANY people with the Supercharged ION Redline who did their first oil change at 3,000 miles, driving it pretty hard most of the time, and the oil came out crystal clean and clear. These ECOTEC engines are built to take beatings. QUOTE]

Hence my saying: "The reason you get many different things on this subject is because different engines will get different results. Take for instance, if you fail to break-in a toyota or honda engine, you may not feel that much difference, because they are built so well, so one might get the impression that they did not need to break-in the engine because they didn't and the engine was fine." The supercharged ion is a four cylinder so it would not need that much of a break-in period. Also, everyone's idea of "running good" is different. Some people think that as long as it runs and smoke doesn't come out the back, it is "running good". I am more picking and prefer to stumbles, or rough idles either.
I tend to work more to the safe side when I spend $30k for a car, I am not one that would see how close to the fence I can get before falling over....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
653 Posts
I tend to work more to the safe side when I spend $30k for a car, I am not one that would see how close to the fence I can get before falling over....
And that's really the best advice. If at all possible, it is good to be nice to the car when you first get it. Better to play it safe and get more 's'miles out of it in the end. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
820 Posts
I do not want to start a holy war but the whole idea of breaking in an engine is not to get the oil spread thru the whole engine, it is to wear in the best possible seal between the cylinder walls and the piston rings.

That being said I am not an expert but I have always felt short runs where I push the car hard to be the best, ie push the car hard enough to really work the engine but do it for a short enough interval to minimize heat and related cylinder wall glazing.

You can probably find alot more sources on the net to give a more in depth ideas about breaking in a car engine.

Also note engines built today have the cylinder walls honed to a much finer finish and I think how you treat the engine during the first hour you drive it probably has a larger effect on engine and oil consumption for the rest of the cars life than almost anything else you do during the engine breakin period:thumbs:

Looked at from that standpoint a dealer demo unit with a few hundred miles on it might be the best possible engine breakin, since it would probably consist of many short 5 - 10 minute drives where the car is pushed hard, about perfect since it would be likely that the car would never really get a chance to completely warm up so there would virtually no cylinder wall glazing.:D

Of course then I would have to get a new car someone else had already driven :banghead:
That like saying that the whole reason to loose weight is so your legs don't rub together....:D That's part of the equation, but not everything. The engine wears-in on every moving part on the engine. The camshaft is being broken-in, the valves, the lifters, etc. The engine being broken in is about the excess metal being worn down on all the parts that don't fit perfectly together, as well as all the seals and sealing properly, as well as the lifters seating, etc. It's the higher RPMS that seat the lifters, but the higher RPMS also cause the glazing because the piston rings have not had time to seal perfectly. Lower RPMS below 4500(I am guessing for RL, it will have to be felt out), will keep the oil from getting past the rings, and prevent glazing.
Allow the oil time to get throughout the engine, allow low rpm and low pressure take offs and excelleration, until you get an oil change around 1500 (vould be earlier for this car, I usually cut the first oil change interval in half) and get some new oil in engine. The things that make the oil black are not always the engine being worn down, the oil may be very clean looking when you remove it. Oil turns black after being at a certain temp for a long time. My girlfriend once had a really cheap brand of oil (bottle) in her trunk during the summer. When I went to use it, it was black coming from the bottle. I learned how to work on engines by using old V8s. This was when things like break-ins were VERY important. Now, especially with 4-cylinders, they are made so well that they typically don't need break-ins to run well for many years (acessories die before the engine has issues). As for me, I want to be careful with a car this expensive and plan to play it safe. I have owned a turbo before, and know that they don't last long if you don't take of them. If they die, the engine will continue to run, but not the way it was meant to run and it will cost you as much as $2500 to have the thing replaced (based on my 91 MR2 Turbo). To each his own...:thumbs:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,245 Posts
What has not been mentioned is the on board computer. Manufacturers often have a "break in" protocol programmed into the software. It automatically times out and a pre-set mileage or clock time. When the time out occurs the performance map changes. Break in often has a slightly richer mixture, and the change in the map may cause the mileage change.

Recommendation; go enjoy the car, but don't hammer it until you have 500 to 1000 miles on it. On or two good "day trips" should do it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
138 Posts
This is what i have learned over the years as far as break in goes from top engine builders and motorheads best ways to break in a new motor, i was always told to perform heat cycles and vary rpm.

Heat cycles = 4 or 5 if possible let the motor run for awhile and then complete cool down

5 min

10 min

15 min

20 min

It sounds a little crazy but this is what i have been told works, being around motor heads most of my life

And yes vary the rpm to load the motor so the rings seat

The pistons will expand to the cly walls in the early stages thats why many motorheads believe in heat cycles.

IMPORTANT try to complete the heat cycles in the very 1st hours of operating the motor the pistons will form to the cly walls at this time.

Why motorheads tend to say stay off the highway at one constant speed is, it tends to wash too much oil away at one constant speed the % of fuel to oil increases.

Also don t baby the motor too much because the rings have to seat and they do need a little stress some people baby the motor so much the rings never seat well and then the motor could be a oil burning / low compression motor down the road.

So many of my motorheads will do the heat cycles and very speed but after a 100 or 200 miles will start to add some short rpm runs say 1/2 thottle and 3/4 runs every so often to start to seat the rings.

With more miles increase the durations of the runs.

Hope this helps good luck should be a great car to own maybe next year for me but my brother who i helped look around in the spring his rl just went to 3800 today so he should be one of the 1st new owners in new york state.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
138 Posts
Yes rusty your correct a car with low miles and alot of short runs in its early stages of operations would be consider a Ringer in my circle of friends !


RINGER = HIGH COMPRESSION / STRONG MOTOR ON THE DYNO
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
Also don t baby the motor too much because the rings have to seat and they do need a little stress some people baby the motor so much the rings never seat well and then the motor could be a oil burning / low compression motor down the road.


Very true.........break it in almost exactly how you plan on driving it for the rest of its life. If you drive slow and bought the turbocharged version for the great gas mileage and cruising then that's how you should do the "break in". :banghead: If you plan on driving the hell out of it; like myself, then make sure to do occasional........not constant........"spirited" runs through the gears.

My buddy owns a machine shop and builds top fuel race engines..........and he built the engine for my Conquest. He said that he does basically the same "break-in" on all his engines. Fire it up and run it about 3500rpms for 25minutes to seat the cam(s); shut it down and check for any leaks/problems, fire it up and run it again; shut it down and let it cool off then change the oil and drive the piss out of the car(or cruise around if that's your style) all you want.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,360 Posts
The turbo itself does not need any special break in but the rest of the car still should get the 500 mile break in. The one extra step I'd suggest is let the car run a little longer before shut down to let the oil cool down and drive it easy at first startup to give the engine time to heat up.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top